John Deere strike imminent?

AuH2O

Well-Known Member
Sep 7, 2013
12,999
20,962
113
A person working for $10 bucks an hour does not make enough money to save and invest any money, let alone 6%, and what happens to this worker if he is crippled at work, or has a heart attack at 40 that does not allow him to work?

SS is the perfect example are you for keeping and improving the program for the benefit of yourself and other, or one of those, "screw everyone else," I only care about me and my own tests.
The person in your example qualifies for disability and a whole host of other social programs. And if someone gets disabled at work they probably are entitled to money.
I’m not saying pensions are bad, I just think the arguments that it’s a travesty that 401ks have replaced pensions don’t hold much water. We have a compulsory retirement program people pay intoalready. Having an employer based one that is voluntary to compliment it seems reasonable.
I just don’t buy the idea that pensions are far superior because people don’t have the discipline to save. They may not, but a great thing about society today is that we have a host of social programs to support people that lack discipline. A majority of jobs are ones people of advanced age are capable of doing ad a last resort, and there are incredible resources that are super simple and effective to aid in investing.
 

Sigmapolis

Minister of Economy
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Aug 10, 2011
26,923
41,626
113
Waukee
You left out the part if the 2nd guy is disabled and cannot work, that the only money he would have coming in would be the money and interest that he has paid into his 401K, while the person paying into SS would be able to collect a lifetime pension just as if he worked until age 67 to 70 depending on the year he was born, starting the month he was declared disabled.

I am more tolerant of the disability insurance elements of Social Security than I am the old age income elements of it. You could have the former without the latter very easily and only need to collect a fraction of 12.4% of your income that the system currently collects from workers and employers.

That being said, disability insurance was a financial product that people bought before Social Security came into existence. Why not mandate employers have to buy disability insurance for their employees based on the actuarial risk of the work? After all, a bank won't give you a loan for a home without insurance on it and you can't drive a car on the road without insurance, so why not for having employees, too?

Plus, Social Security's version of disability insurance is higher cost than it needs to be. The product could be cheaper if the "insurance company" (really SSA) was investing at a 5% return instead of a 0% return like it is. So there's even an inefficient cost for the program beneficiaries baked into that aspect of it.

You are making a huge assumption that people that rely on SS to pay their bills will invest that 10-12%. I agree that I would prefer to have that money to invest, but many don’t have that discipline.

I do think this is a fair and good faith concern.

But suggesting a compromise...

Still collect the money. But make the default an S&P 500 index fund and not U.S. bonds.

Long-term real rate of return more like 5-8% instead of 0%.

My father never received any Social Security because he had railroad retirement instead. And the Railroad Retirement Board works like SS -- mandatory contribution of a certain share of your income -- but then it invests the money on behalf of beneficiaries to generate a return. The RRB something like a 6.5% return on his savings throughout his lifetime, which was worth (to give vague ranges out of modesty) something between $500,000 and $1 MM once he reached the typical retirement age.

There's a reason the RRB (and the railroad unions) have resisted being folded into Social Security and demanded their separate system remain separate for decades. They have smart accountants and attorneys that have told them how much better their special system is than general SS.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BigCyFan

AuH2O

Well-Known Member
Sep 7, 2013
12,999
20,962
113
Shifts are being canceled so it looks to be on.

Probably best to get this back on JD. Diving towards cave level now.
Crazy. But it sounds there were active negotiations today. I can’t imagine Deere wants to play chicken here.
 

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
67,659
63,729
113
Not exactly sure.
Crazy. But it sounds there were active negotiations today. I can’t imagine Deere wants to play chicken here.
Guessing neither does. Like I said earlier, if Deere has to cancel metal deliveries, they may be on a slow ramp back up.
 

usedcarguy

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2008
5,556
1,581
113
Ames
By the time I retire we're gonna be talking about Universal Basic Income because by that time all the jobs we know and love today, like turning wrenches and flipping burgers, are just gonna be covered by automation.

That narrative subscribes to the idea that with automation there is no corresponding increase in productivity. It couldn't be further from the truth.

"But this time will be different!" they say. Well, they've been saying that since the industrial revolution. Each and every time, it has freed up human capital for more worthwhile endeavors. Jobs get replaced, and new jobs get created. There are currently millions of unfilled jobs in this country despite 200 years of automation. If it were going to happen, we would have seen it years ago. They certainly aren't engineering those jobs at Deere out of existence.
 

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
67,659
63,729
113
Not exactly sure.
That narrative subscribes to the idea that with automation there is no corresponding increase in productivity. It couldn't be further from the truth.

"But this time will be different!" they say. Well, they've been saying that since the industrial revolution. Each and every time, it has freed up human capital for more worthwhile endeavors. Jobs get replaced, and new jobs get created. There are currently millions of unfilled jobs in this country despite 200 years of automation. If it were going to happen, we would have seen it years ago. They certainly aren't engineering those jobs at Deere out of existence.
You’ve never seen terminator have you? We will automate too much and then the robots will take over.

think that happens in 1997
 

BryceC

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Mar 23, 2006
26,462
19,624
113
You left out the part if the 2nd guy is disabled and cannot work, that the only money he would have coming in would be the money and interest that he has paid into his 401K, while the person paying into SS would be able to collect a lifetime pension just as if he worked until age 67 to 70 depending on the year he was born, starting the month he was declared disabled.

Currently SS is both an insurance product and a retirement plan. You could easily get disability insurance for 2-3% of your income. 9-10% of people’s income could easily be interest bearing retirement funds.

I don’t think anybody in this thread is advocating getting rid of social security entirely. However if it’s going to have a retirement funding component, there is zero reason why the person paying into it shouldn’t be earning those funds.
 

qwerty

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Apr 3, 2020
7,692
11,634
113
60
Muscatine, IA
As a 20-something, it's amazing to me to hear about the old days where someone could go work at a factory right after high school graduation, stay in the same company for 47 years, with a spouse who stays home and two kids, and still be able to afford a house and a car and expenses for the kids - all with a pension at retirement at 65. And they'd work a solid 40 hours a week on the floor and no more.

The world has changed so much, in worker-unfriendly ways.
2 kids . . . right. There was a 4 kid minimum back then. with some of us in double digits.
 

Sigmapolis

Minister of Economy
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Aug 10, 2011
26,923
41,626
113
Waukee
As a 20-something, it's amazing to me to hear about the old days where someone could go work at a factory right after high school graduation, stay in the same company for 47 years, with a spouse who stays home and two kids, and still be able to afford a house and a car and expenses for the kids - all with a pension at retirement at 65. And they'd work a solid 40 hours a week on the floor and no more.

The world has changed so much, in worker-unfriendly ways.

You could still do all that on one income today pretty easily.

If you're willing to live in a house and drive a car with the amenities of the same from 1950 and you swear to forego and medical treatments and technologies that were invented after 1950.

And if you want to eat the bland canned and processed food that dominated American diets at the time, only have one tiny TV, no cable or Internet or mobile phones, and no air travel.

You want to live for next-to-nothing in rural Oklahoma working at a carbon black plant, then I'm sure you'd be able to do it. But very few people actually want to go back to living like that.
 

mramseyISU

Well-Known Member
Nov 8, 2006
7,073
7,515
113
Waterloo, IA
Shifts are being canceled so it looks to be on.

Probably best to get this back on JD. Diving towards cave level now.
They canceled 3rd shift a couple weeks ago too right before they had an extension so that doesn’t really mean anything. My wife drove by one of the factories a little bit ago and they’re setting up massive portable lighting.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: aauummm and BCClone

I@ST1

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2020
1,727
593
113
You could still do all that on one income today pretty easily.

If you're willing to live in a house and drive a car with the amenities of the same from 1950 and you swear to forego and medical treatments and technologies that were invented after 1950.

And if you want to eat the bland canned and processed food that dominated American diets at the time, only have one tiny TV, no cable or Internet or mobile phones, and no air travel.

You want to live for next-to-nothing in rural Oklahoma working at a carbon black plant, then I'm sure you'd be able to do it. But very few people actually want to go back to living like that.

Drama Queen.. WOW.
 

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
67,659
63,729
113
Not exactly sure.
They canceled 3rd shift a couple weeks ago too right before they had an extension so that doesn’t really mean anything. My wife drove by one of the factories a little bit ago and they’re setting up massive portable lighting.
For the strikers?