*** Official #25 Texas Tech vs #11 IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

[Halincandenza]

c. Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but is not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to: 1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent;
2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;
4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
5. Contact with a player making a throw-in, and
6. Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow that is deemed excessive or unnecessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2 personal foul (See Rule 4-18.7). 7. Illegal contact caused by a player hooking an opponent over or under the arm in an attempt to deceive the official into believing the contact was caused by the opponent. Depending on the nature of the contact, or the result of the contact, this foul could be considered a flagrant 2 foul.

 

[Statefan10]

Depends on the motion. If a guys is just in a natural shooting motion that won't be called. If guy rakes his elbows across the guys face that is different.

Yes the shooting one is difficult because it's tough to tell whether a guy is changing his shot motion or not. I think Kunc got hit squarely enough for it to be almost a given call for the ref to make. If you slow it down you can see the defender sort of move his arms in a way that wasn't necessarily "natural", but also tough to make because it wasn't 100% clear. Either way, the player didn't really even argue it so he must've gotten Kunc pretty good.

 

[NorthCyd]

If you're in the cylinder it's a foul on the defender, doesn't matter what body part it is.

But he wasn't in the offensive players cylinder. He established his position before the player came up with the shot and maintained his vertical position and didn't lean in like defenders often do. Both players have a cylinder and the offensive player came in to the defenders cylinder during his shooting motion. IMO it was an amazing defensive play.

 

[goody2012]

Is if common in college? Fouling an elbow with a face and no other contact?

I mainly watch NBA but have never seen face foul to elbow in an ISU game. 25 years ago it’s a no call in the nba, not a foul on guy who took it on chin. Now it’s 100% automatic call on guy giving the elbow and it doesn’t matter if it was a normal basketball motion or not, just tough break if it was a normal motion.

Here’s what I think happened… The announcer was really weird acting like Jaz for sure fouled him face to elbow. Twitter ran with that. Now we’ve got a KU fan here worried ISU gets away with face to elbow fouls.

If I'm a defender I'm just shoving my face in there hoping to get hit. Face apparently has immunity from fouls.

 

[randomfan44]

He elbowed Kunz in the face and it was reviewed if it was flagrant. It was ruled not flagrant, but it falls in line with a point of emphasis this season that the offensive player is not allowed to create contact when shooting. In prior years, probably not called a foul.

Hats off to kunz, he drew 11 fouls last night

Filing for future reference...

 

[madguy30]

But he wasn't in the offensive players cylinder. He established his position before the player came up with the shot and maintained his vertical position and didn't lean in like defenders often do. Both players have a cylinder and the offensive player came in to the defenders cylinder during his shooting motion. IMO it was an amazing defensive play.

Jaz is a sneaky MVP of the team so far.

Did he take THREE charges last night?

 

[isufbcurt]

Jaz is a sneaky MVP of the team so far.

Did he take THREE charges last night?

Yes 3 charges

 

[Cyinthenorth]

It very easily could have been a foul on Kunc. It appeared he could have been called in the guys "cylinder". Of course they didn't call that all game.

Not sure I agree. An elbow to the face seems pretty black and white to me. Cylinder rule be damned, he took a shot to the face

 

[HFCS]

If I'm a defender I'm just shoving my face in there hoping to get hit. Face apparently has immunity from fouls.

That’s 100% of what I’ve seen in college and pro the past five years.

They review for a flagrant but it’s just automatic if you elbow a guy’s face regardless of how innocent, game motion, or intentional it looks.

This talk that defenders are regularly getting called for face to elbow contact is fantasy unless someone can show me.

They were reviewing for flagrant. There was a .0000001% chance Jaz was gonna get called for face fouling.

 

[Statefan10]

If I'm a defender I'm just shoving my face in there hoping to get hit. Face apparently has immunity from fouls.

If the only part of your entire body that's in the cylinder is your head (which honestly happens all the time because your body naturally leans over in a defensive stance) you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. If you get hit in the face, it will almost always be called an offensive foul.

 

[HFCS]

Filing for future reference...

still waiting for these volumes of recent face fouling footage.

Thanks in advance for the links.

 

[goody2012]

That’s 100% of what I’ve seen in college and pro the past five years.

They review for a flagrant but it’s just automatic if you elbow a guy’s face regardless of how innocent, game motion, or intentional it looks.

This talk that defenders are regularly getting called for face to elbow contact is fantasy unless someone can show me.

They were reviewing for flagrant. There was a .0000001% chance Jaz was gonna get called for face fouling.

Sorry, I'm not going to think of a specific incident and go back through game film to find it. I'm just telling you I've seen it before.

 

[randomfan44]

still waiting for these volumes of recent face fouling footage.

Thanks in advance for the links.

I have seen defenders get called for fouls where they took a shot in the face frequently. Are you seriously questioning that?

 

[NoCreativity]

ISU trailed with 2 minutes left in the game and made 3 FGs in the second half. It could be that a stats site might not completely convey the entire context of the game.

But yet still won? It's almost like that's what happens when two Top 10 defenses with sketchy offenses play each other.

 

[CascadeClone]

Reminds me of when my kid was maybe 4 or 5 and he was asking how to determine if you are down in football. Went through a few scenarios, and then asked in all seriousness if you were down if you balanced on your weiner, then used a hand to push off the ground and get back up. Maybe we need one of those "You make the call" commercials from the 80s on that.

If you can support your weight using your unit, then no, you are NOT down.

You're about as UP as a human male can be.

 

[isufbcurt]

Sorry, I'm not going to think of a specific incident and go back through game film to find it. I'm just telling you I've seen it before.

I've seen pigs fly and unicorns millions of times too and I am not going to show you proof either

 

[HFCS]

Sorry, I'm not going to think of a specific incident and go back through game film to find it. I'm just telling you I've seen it before.

I only watch ISU so only like 25-30 games a year and less last year. Maybe face to elbow fouling is running rampant in college hoops.

I watch a lot of NBA and highlights. Over the past decade that is a foul on Jaz 0% of the time. It’s automatic on the offense no matter how innocent it looks and the review is just to confirm normal or flagrant.

The announcer set off a twitter chain of insanity.

 

[goody2012]

I've seen pigs fly and unicorns millions of times too and I am not going to show you proof either

You're silly.

 

[isufbcurt]

You're silly.

And you make **** up

 

[HFCS]

I have seen defenders get called for fouls where they took a shot in the face frequently. Are you seriously questioning that?

I guess college ball must just be radically different than every NBA game I’ve seen in the past five years (hundreds) and somehow ISU and opponents have miraculously avoided the common face to elbow foul in all of their games.

You realize the only contact he had was in the chin right? Simpleton got duped by the worst game analyst ESPN has working these days.