Is this the dude you shacked with?
Work Ethics Question
- Thread starter throwittoblythe
- Start date
Was thinking the same thing. Or possibly that the manager isn't very confrontational and wants someone else to indirectly do his dirty work.
I've heard about some ugly wrongful termination lawsuits over the years from some HR directors. I know it's the right thing to do and the OP feels compelled to say something, but the fact that a manager is talking about another employee to someone that's not in a managerial role can definitely get brought up in one of these cases. Tread carefully.
If they get fired, will they get a severance package?
Either way I’d leave it alone, but if they do get severance, this might be a manager trying to save the company some money hoping someone will encourage this person to quit.
Either way I’d leave it alone, but if they do get severance, this might be a manager trying to save the company some money hoping someone will encourage this person to quit.
It's called the Peter Principle. You keep rising in ranks until you're not good at your job. Not unusual or uncommon. In fact, good employers will encourage good performers into these roles to groom them for future management.
I always like to hear and seek feedback. After a month in a new job, I would ask for feedback whether there are things that I could do differently. Then 3 months and 6 months and 1 year. After that this is an annual event because I want to know how things are going with me and it also gives my boss a chance to step back and affirm his/her expectations. Good bosses always welcome the opportunity (The ones refuse to discuss expectations always turn out to be horrible ones because they would conveniently blame you if something goes wrong)
I have end of year meeting where we discuss where we are and the goals for next year.
Not sure whether this employee ever done that.
I have end of year meeting where we discuss where we are and the goals for next year.
Not sure whether this employee ever done that.
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I wouldn’t say anything unless your co-worker is a close friend. I’ve probably worked in close contact with 120 co-workers in my career and there is about 4 that I would actually tell if I were in your shoes.
Yeah…I know what that is, but I’m not sure that comes into play during the hiring process.
I wouldn’t say anything. It might be different if he was your best friend. If you know he isn’t cutting it, he should also know that he isn’t cutting it. As an employee, I think it is pretty easy to evaluate your own performance and how you are viewed in that job. He may not agree with his perceived performance, but I would think he is aware. Too many bad things can come from your involvement and it may only give him a small jump on looking for a new job.
I don't buy into the "if he doesn't know its his own fault" thing. I have a report on a PIP right now who was repeatedly given corrections for their work and was told "we expect better" and "I'm disappointed" and "this needs to improve" at review stages of projects and was SHOCKED when they were put on a PIP in their most recent review. That's probably not a good reflection on me as their manager but I'm not sure how to be any more clear than I was.
I do agree with the people that suggested above that a PIP is just the first step in showing someone the door. MOST managers I have worked with would basically say "you've gotten to this point because you wouldn't take training or improvements before so I'm over it" and the PIP is basically just letting you know you have X days before the company let's you go to find a landing spot.
I do agree with the people that suggested above that a PIP is just the first step in showing someone the door. MOST managers I have worked with would basically say "you've gotten to this point because you wouldn't take training or improvements before so I'm over it" and the PIP is basically just letting you know you have X days before the company let's you go to find a landing spot.
He already knows, no one ever should go on a PIP without knowing it is coming. There is 6 months of work to do before a PIP. I wouldn't say anything, just be supportive.
Thanks for the sound advice, everyone. I'm in agreement with the majority. I'm not going to outright tell him he's getting close to the chopping block. But we do talk semi-regularly, so I may ask how things are going and provide some coaching on how he can improve. I know his manager is planning to create a development plan (PIP by another name) for him with some milestones/deadlines.
Was this guy hired during a time when Covid restrictions could have been an impediment to learning the job?
Two of my sons started jobs during Covid when they were trying to do all training remotely online. Kind of difficult in engineering fields not to actually see mechanisms. One had a mentor he hated that would answer a question by telling him to read some enormous document online.
Two of my sons started jobs during Covid when they were trying to do all training remotely online. Kind of difficult in engineering fields not to actually see mechanisms. One had a mentor he hated that would answer a question by telling him to read some enormous document online.
Yes and no. He joined in 2021. But we are a remote company, anyway. So, everything is done via virtual meetings. We get people out to see our work when we can, but that depends on if we have the work and if it's close by.
In similar times, ie economic downturn with RIF's occurring/pending, a friend who was in management came to the defense of another manager's employee who the friend felt was being unfairly targeted. I warned the friend that was extremely unwise, would be seen as not being a "team player" and was likely to lead to personal repercussions, but it was too late, the friend had already interceded but unsuccessfully since the targeted employee was soon thereafter gone. Not long afterwards, the friend was assigned a "special project" that was doomed to failure since it was totally outside of the friend's area of expertise and customary field of operations. Surprise, it "didn't meet standards" and received an unsatisfactory rating, and the friend was included in the next round of RIF's.
Best to stay in your lane, if your associate is not found to be performing satisfactorily and in this case it sounds like that's actually the case, any personal involvement carries considerable risk of personal expense. If that person's manager hopes you'll say something to cause the associate's exit, that manager isn't doing their job and if anything goes wrong that manager may very well be willing to point to you and the cause. Lose-lose, for you and your associate.
By pointing a recruiter in their direction, you've already done a very good thing, trying to point them to a safe exit. Beyond that, if he starts talking about plans for a significant purchase or life event, major purchase or addition to family or whatever, you could strongly advise how that seems like a very unwise thing to do given the current economic climate or whatever excuse might play well.
Best to stay in your lane, if your associate is not found to be performing satisfactorily and in this case it sounds like that's actually the case, any personal involvement carries considerable risk of personal expense. If that person's manager hopes you'll say something to cause the associate's exit, that manager isn't doing their job and if anything goes wrong that manager may very well be willing to point to you and the cause. Lose-lose, for you and your associate.
By pointing a recruiter in their direction, you've already done a very good thing, trying to point them to a safe exit. Beyond that, if he starts talking about plans for a significant purchase or life event, major purchase or addition to family or whatever, you could strongly advise how that seems like a very unwise thing to do given the current economic climate or whatever excuse might play well.
He probably is not going to get fired for poor performance, that would reflect poorly on the people who hired him. He most likely will get promoted to management.
