CyTown Announcement - Monday 9/19 (Links in OP)

[ZRF]

I think that you have a point on cannibalizing existing businesses. It will hurt Main St some. Campustown is so student focused that it won't be hurt. My opinion is that they are not banking on just local Ames people. They want to draw from the surrounding communities. No one is coming from DSM or Ankeny to go to Main St. IF they renovate Stephens and expand Scheman, then you have concerts and conventions that can sustain something like this with people that wouldn't be in Ames otherwise.

This is really it right here.

You have 6 football games a year which will bring hellish business for 12-18 games. You have what, 20 mens basketball games and probably another handful of womens BB and/or wrestling events that will bring in some crowds for a night. Even with the football slaughters, that's not enough viable events to make this kind of thing work out.

I think the bold is what has to happen to really make this a viable/remotely sensible plan. The problem is Ames has never really been viewed as an extension of the Des Moines market like Lawrence has with KC. Mammoth, Pipeline, and other promoters were based out of Lawrence over the years and they consistently put shows there as part of the "KC market". People became used to and accustomed to making that drive to see shows at the Granada, Bottleneck, and Liberty Hall. Even if Jamie WANTS to lure events to Ames he HAS to have a promoter that sees his vision. He will need a First Fleet (DM based) or a Mammoth (whos is behind a lot of TM venue shows in the OMaha, Des Moines, and KC regional markets) to put shows there. It then has to be the right sized show for that to happen and Stephens is simply the wrong size for that to happen. A lot of 3k sized events skip the low-mid markets altogether. Anything smaller and you have to convince someone not to put it at Hoyt Sherman when 90% or more of events will sell better there, all things being equal.

Just because you renovate Stephens and aim for grandeur doesn't mean it will happen. You need a promoter that has connections and can bring in the shows, then they need to be successful. Tough sell IMO.

 

[BCClone]

I've met people from other states (e.g. Georgia) who flew to MSP, rented a car, and drove to Decorah just to get their hands on a Toppling Goliath lottery release. Then resold it online at a profit. Apparently it's a big deal.

Tell them it's in Aldi's in Mason City. That would be closer.

Not sure what they all had, but there was 2-3 varieties

 

[Zyklon]

There should be a place selling packaged beer and tailgating essentials. Tons of people probably stop somewhere to pick up a few things before they hit Ames, if there's a spot close by they can walk to, I would think most people would just head straight there.

 

[JM4CY]

It's more mixed use development, yes. I address both business and sports/event centric consumer spend, the latter has relevant comparables to P&L.

This will either not happen (full buildout shown), or be a failure to recoup investment. I'm frankly shocked it was released with this much infrastructure in video. Given entire pandemic has occurred since the initial idea was shared by JP, this seems to ignore two major trends, interest rates have doubled, and people are working from home. Add in non pandemic related Big12 $ issue, and this type of capex is not wise.

For clarity, I'm pro hotel, some full time infrastructure, and an outdoor scale up scale down. I'm not a naysayer of any investment. Dismissing others points as yes/no is lazy.

 

[ZRF]

I think that's a very glass half empty view. P&L does fine despite being empty much of the time.

As far as doing it on the cheap, with gravel, beer gardens, and food trucks... it would just look cheap I think. Not much more of a draw than any other bar in Ames except on gameday. It IS a lot of capex, but it sounds like they are getting some of that covered by donors in exchange for the suites - which they would probably be pretty sticky tenants on renewals in 20 years time. I don't think Jamie's green visor would be OK with a project that looked marginal at best; he'd be working to make it make sense.

I think the vision is brilliant. Nothing is guaranteed, but I think it will work and be a real differentiator for ISU. It's more likely to be a dynamic success than a boondoggle.

Do you define "fine" as costing the city millions per annum as it's never brought in enough revenue to cover the annual debt payments? The city has, per annum, drawn 15 million out of its "general" revenue fund to cover the albatross.

Now, like a lot of things P and L creates some hidden benefits that are hard to monetize, like being an attractive anchor for surrounding investment (residential condos). But it's hard for anyone to spin P and L as a successful, stand alone venture. The city could have and should have done other things with the money/land.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2021/02/11/power-and-light-debt-refinancing.html

 

[isutrevman]

If a business is good, people will seek it out regardless of location.

Agree. It's not like this on the outskirts of Ames. Duff is further out of the way for the majority of people than Jack Trice is.

 

[alarson]

This is really it right here.

You have 6 football games a year which will bring hellish business for 12-18 games. You have what, 20 mens basketball games and probably another handful of womens BB and/or wrestling events that will bring in some crowds for a night. Even with the football slaughters, that's not enough viable events to make this kind of thing work out.

I think you can also look at what this becomes for the ames community.

Like, look at prairie trail in Ankeny in the district area (which is what people should really be comparing this to as opposed to the P&L comparisons). That area has become the go-to for a bunch of new community events, including concerts that have drawn thousands of people. I could see CyTown becoming similar for Ames, hosting a variety of events all summer

 

[coolerifyoudid]

Crushed gravel, food trucks and string lights =/= "world class biergarten"

Fine, I'll add the two tiki torches collecting spiderwebs under my deck, but that's my final offer.

 

[Clonefan32]

This should give me just enough time to start Trust the Process Brewery. Complimentary tours at 10 and 2. Put me down for 20,000 SqF, Jamie.

 

[Cloneon]

This is really it right here.

You have 6 football games a year which will bring hellish business for 12-18 games. You have what, 20 mens basketball games and probably another handful of womens BB and/or wrestling events that will bring in some crowds for a night. Even with the football slaughters, that's not enough viable events to make this kind of thing work out.

I think the bold is what has to happen to really make this a viable/remotely sensible plan. The problem is Ames has never really been viewed as an extension of the Des Moines market like Lawrence has with KC. Mammoth, Pipeline, and other promoters were based out of Lawrence over the years and they consistently put shows there as part of the "KC market". People became used to and accustomed to making that drive to see shows at the Granada, Bottleneck, and Liberty Hall. Even if Jamie WANTS to lure events to Ames he HAS to have a promoter that sees his vision. He will need a First Fleet (DM based) or a Mammoth (whos is behind a lot of TM venue shows in the OMaha, Des Moines, and KC regional markets) to put shows there. It then has to be the right sized show for that to happen and Stephens is simply the wrong size for that to happen. A lot of 3k sized events skip the low-mid markets altogether. Anything smaller and you have to convince someone not to put it at Hoyt Sherman when 90% or more of events will sell better there, all things being equal.

Just because you renovate Stephens and aim for grandeur doesn't mean it will happen. You need a promoter that has connections and can bring in the shows, then they need to be successful. Tough sell IMO.

I'm curious. Did you watch this? I ask because I've never heard of the 'suites' alternative revenue, or the ties to the research park. Maybe you have numbers on those and have already spoken against them. If so, please elaborate.

 

[IcSyU]

There should be a place selling packaged beer and tailgating essentials. Tons of people probably stop somewhere to pick up a few things before they hit Ames, if there's a spot close by they can walk to, I would think most people would just head straight there.

That's a great business plan for 7 days each year and terrible for 358 other days. Even the 7 days it would probably suck because it would run out of inventory.

 

[Trice]

That’s no different than the softball stadium.

I’ve said repeatedly I understand why a performance venue is at the bottom of the AD’s priority list. I also think a performance venue is a really important piece of our campus.

Maybe it was an idle threat but it’s one that he was blasted for and has since entirely backed away from, so it seems like it only put egg on his face for no apparent reason.

That was never about actually closing the auditorium. He lied about that and admitted it after the fact.

That was about anger with people whose Covid concerns kept fans away from the Louisiana game. It was an unhinged interview that was among the low points of Pollard's ISU tenure.

 

[CascadeClone]

Well, food trucks, string lights and limestone isn't far off from that. It would be better to just leave the tent row than that.

You think it will be empty, but the rest of us can see it being successful.

There will be lots of days it is pretty empty. But it can certainly still be profitable. Hell most bars/restaurants make 80% of their rev on 2 nights. Hotels in touristy areas too. That's why it is called "off season".

 

[twincyties]

Morgan's

Larry’s. Busch Lite and Diet Coke on tap. Mizzou fraternity and sorority memorabilia on the walls. That’s it.

 

[EnhancedFujita]

This is a pretty small project for this type of thing. People that are worried about it not pulling outside gamedays need to understand the dynamic of where this is located. There is a significant number of students that live as close to this area as they do CampusTown. That'll provide some draw. Plus the office component of bringing workers into the space during the day will also help. On Gamedays, the space will transform pretty significantly from what it'll be during regular days. It doesn't need to be packed to capacity 100% of the time to be viable.

 

[GMackey32]

Agree. It's not like this on the outskirts of Ames. Duff is further out of the way for the majority of people than Jack Trice is.

Look at Whatcha Smokin' BBQ in Luther. Really good BBQ and it seems like its always packed.

 

[ZRF]

I think you can also look at what this becomes for the ames community.

Like, look at prairie trail in Ankeny in the district area (which is what people should really be comparing this to as opposed to the P&L comparisons). That area has become the go-to for a bunch of new community events, including concerts that have drawn thousands of people. I could see CyTown becoming similar for Ames, hosting a variety of events all summer

Familiar with Ankeny, have family that lives there, but I am less familiar with the dynamics of this. If the place was built because of demand, as in "hey our community wants this so we are going to find the right place to build it" I can see why it would be successful. It just doesn't seem like the city of Ames has being clamoring for this and it makes me even MORE skeptical that the development seems to be Jamie's brainchild. More often than not, these development ideas seem to fail when the impetus is "if we build it they will come" rather than "we need this, our community wants this, where do we put it?".

The Zona Rosa project is another KC area project that was a massive failure. They built this huge shopping/restaurant/entertainment area claiming it will "bring in people". Problem is that area is in the "boonies" of the KC metro, 20+ minutes for 80% or more of the metro population. There simply wasn't enough local demand for the project and people have other, more proximal options for those types of entertainment dollars.

I get what you are saying but this feels like a reach, both in idea and scope.

 

[FallOf81]

Well, there will be ample parking non game days. That's a positive.

 

[cycloneG]

Familiar with Ankeny, have family that lives there, but I am less familiar with the dynamics of this. If the place was built because of demand, as in "hey our community wants this so we are going to find the right place to build it" I can see why it would be successful. It just doesn't seem like the city of Ames has being clamoring for this and it makes me even MORE skeptical that the development seems to be Jamie's brainchild. More often than not, these development ideas seem to fail when the impetus is "if we build it they will come" rather than "we need this, our community wants this, where do we put it?".

The Zona Rosa project is another KC area project that was a massive failure. They built this huge shopping/restaurant/entertainment area claiming it will "bring in people". Problem is that area is in the "boonies" of the KC metro, 20+ minutes for 80% or more of the metro population. There simply wasn't enough local demand for the project and people have other, more proximal options for those types of entertainment dollars.

I get what you are saying but this feels like a reach, both in idea and scope.

The city of Ames split the cost with the ISU AD for the initial feasibility study for this project so I don't believe this is Pollard going it alone. He's leading the project but he's working with the city. The narrative in this thread that there's pushback by Ames against this project seems unfounded for now.

 

[KnappShack]

The city of Ames split the cost with the ISU AD for the initial feasibility study for this project so I don't believe this is Pollard going it alone. He's leading the project but he's working with the city. The narrative in this thread that there's pushback by Ames against this project seems unfounded for now.

Give 'em time...