Eli King??

[bozclone]

Based on watching high school and AAU highlights when we signed Eli, I sincerely thought he would be the first freshman from the class to get significant minutes. His athletic ability stood out. I also assumed he would be an off guard. TJ is playing him pretty much exclusively as a PG. I wonder if this has been the plan from day one and this is all part of the development.

I don't question why he isn't getting minutes over Lipsey, Grill, Gabe, and Holmes. I do question why he didn't enter the game much earlier in the second half when we were up 25+. I would have thought you could pair him with Lipsey and give him minutes at off guard. I would think that would be helpful to his development.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Not trying to disparage or give up on Eli here.

But if you recruit three guys and the three of them turn out to be...

#1 is an absolute stud, earns a starting spot early in his career, never gives it up, eventual all-B12 guy

#2 comes along slowly and is eventually a solid bench guy or even starter in the B12

#3 is a bust... not a bad kid or anything, but belongs in the MVC or something like that

Well, that's about what you should expect from the class much of the time.

That being said, Eli is behind a lot right now. Lipsey is a prodigy. Kalscheur and Grill are playing out of their minds, and Holmes is like 40 years old or something. There's not a lot of guard time left after them.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Based on watching high school and AAU highlights when we signed Eli, I sincerely thought he would be the first freshman from the class to get significant minutes. His athletic ability stood out. I also assumed he would be an off guard. TJ is playing him pretty much exclusively as a PG. I wonder if this has been the plan from day one and this is all part of the development.

I don't question why he isn't getting minutes over Lipsey, Grill, Gabe, and Holmes. I do question why he didn't enter the game much earlier in the second half when we were up 25+. I would have thought you could pair him with Lipsey and give him minutes at off guard. I would think that would be helpful to his development.

I'm not sure how much earlier we could've expected to see him. We had a huge lead, and Tech looked mentally checked out after the first 20 minutes, but we've already given up leads a couple times during conference play. Best not to take chances messing with different combinations/flow of the game. You do that in the non con. I'm all for piling it on in conference play, especially to a program like Tech that has been a real POS and PIA to us in recent years.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Not trying to disparage or give up on Eli here.

But if you recruit three guys and the three of them turn out to be...

#1 is an absolute stud, earns a starting spot early in his career, never gives it up, eventual all-B12 guy

#2 comes along slowly and is eventually a solid bench guy or even starter in the B12

#3 is a bust... not a bad kid or anything, but belongs in the MVC or something like that

Well, that's about what you should expect from the class much of the time.

That being said, Eli is behind a lot right now. Lipsey is a prodigy. Kalscheur and Grill are playing out of their minds, and Holmes is like 40 years old or something. There's not a lot of guard time left after them.

Agree with this, plus we don't really know what a normal TJ class will look like at ISU, given that this is his first one, but very few if any coaches bat 1.000 in recruiting. Just taking ISU history into consideration, I can't think of any class under any of the coaches in my cognitive lifetime (Floyd, Eustachy, Morgan, McDermott, Hoiberg, Prohm) where every recruit panned out. Still not giving up on Eli, but statistics indicate that he a pretty uphill battle in front of him. Will he go the route of Naz Long or will he be another Clayton Custer, time will tell.

 

[alenz95]

I think we need to take a step back with speculation on Eli. He's an off ball guard that is behind a lot of older guys (Grill, Kalscheur, Holmes) on a top 15 team. Just let him get a year to develop in practice and we can see what he has next year when there are minutes available. This team plays with a level of physicality im sure he didn't see much of in high school. Its not necessarily a bad thing he gets a year to practice and adjust before we expect him to have to be one of the guys.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Agree with this, plus we don't really know what a normal TJ class will look like at ISU, given that this is his first one, but very few if any coaches bat 1.000 in recruiting. Just taking ISU history into consideration, I can't think of any class under any of the coaches in my cognitive lifetime (Floyd, Eustachy, Morgan, McDermott, Hoiberg, Prohm) where every recruit panned out. Still not giving up on Eli, but statistics indicate that he a pretty uphill battle in front of him. Will he go the route of Naz Long or will he be another Clayton Custer, time will tell.

I went and looked at my scholarship chart from the start of the Hoiberg era --

2013-2014 was only Monté Morris and Matt Thomas. They both worked out. Sherron Dorsey-Walker was a freshman the same year after coming off a redshirt, but he was recruited the year before.

2021-2022 was only Tyrese Hunter in terms of incoming freshmen. I think he obviously worked out, so 1/1 there, but not hard to do with only one incoming recruit and he's already gone from Ames.

So no, I don't think there's been a "all hits" class save the Morris/Thomas two-headed monster.

Eli turning into Clayton Custer wouldn't be a bad outcome for the young man. Custer didn't make much of an impact in Ames as a freshman, sure, but he was stuck behind Monté Morris. But he had a terrific career in the MVC and is now a GA for Porter Moser in Norman, so he's still involved with the sport.

Again, not *wishing* for that, but it is unreasonable to expect every recruit coming into Ames is going to work out, and when guys do move on and leave on good terms, I do still want them to succeed.

 

[stateofmind]

I was sent this link by my cousin in lacrosse wi. He has Seen this kid play a number of times. No stats for junior year as he was out from a football injury. He was top five finalist for Mr Basketball in MN. There were questions about his 3 point shot form? Who cares what his form is like as long as it goes in. D1 the top mn AAU program. I see him going bye Chucky Hepburn the Wisconsin Point guard among quite a few other D1 players. Lipsey feeding him the ball.

One thing I get from this is that I wasn't sure if he was left or right-handed until he shot the 3. He brings the ball up the court with his left hand a lot. Obviously coached well as a youngster.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

I went and looked at my scholarship chart from the start of the Hoiberg era --

2013-2014 was only Monté Morris and Matt Thomas. They both worked out. Sherron Dorsey-Walker was a freshman the same year after coming off a redshirt, but he was recruited the year before.

2021-2022 was only Tyrese Hunter in terms of incoming freshmen. I think he obviously worked out, so 1/1 there, but not hard to do with only one incoming recruit and he's already gone from Ames.

So no, I don't think there's been a "all hits" class save the Morris/Thomas two-headed monster.

Eli turning into Clayton Custer wouldn't be a bad outcome for the young man. Custer didn't make much of an impact in Ames as a freshman, sure, but he was stuck behind Monté Morris. But he had a terrific career in the MVC and is now a GA for Porter Moser in Norman, so he's still involved with the sport.

Again, not *wishing* for that, but it is unreasonable to expect every recruit coming into Ames is going to work out, and when guys do move on and leave on good terms, I do still want them to succeed.

I perhaps should have went with class of 3 or more, because yes, I'm sure we've had some decent 2 or 1 man recruiting classes, with Matt and Monte being obviously a very good duo. And just because they are misses at ISU doesn't make them bad players all of the time in hindsight. You have a few examples from the Prohm era, and a few in the McDermott and Morgan eras that left Iowa State and went down a notch or several notches and still weren't even good at those levels. I don't think we'll see that happen with Eli, IF he happens to go that route.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Not trying to disparage or give up on Eli here.

But if you recruit three guys and the three of them turn out to be...

#1 is an absolute stud, earns a starting spot early in his career, never gives it up, eventual all-B12 guy

#2 comes along slowly and is eventually a solid bench guy or even starter in the B12

#3 is a bust... not a bad kid or anything, but belongs in the MVC or something like that

Well, that's about what you should expect from the class much of the time.

That being said, Eli is behind a lot right now. Lipsey is a prodigy. Kalscheur and Grill are playing out of their minds, and Holmes is like 40 years old or something. There's not a lot of guard time left after them.

Comparing Lipsey and King isn’t really fair. If Lipsey doesn’t take an injury he’s at worst a low 4 star top 125ish recruit.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Comparing Lipsey and King isn’t really fair. If Lipsey doesn’t take an injury he’s at worst a low 4 star top 125ish recruit.

There's a reason guys coming off major injuries are downgraded in the rankings.

 

[Gunnerclone]

There's a reason guys coming off major injuries are downgraded in the rankings.

And was Tamin already committed to ISU when he took his injury? Feel like the services take that in to account as well when ranking.

 

[bozclone]

I'm not sure how much earlier we could've expected to see him. We had a huge lead, and Tech looked mentally checked out after the first 20 minutes, but we've already given up leads a couple times during conference play. Best not to take chances messing with different combinations/flow of the game. You do that in the non con. I'm all for piling it on in conference play, especially to a program like Tech that has been a real POS and PIA to us in recent years.

I’m not saying empty the whole bench earlier. I’m saying put Eli in with the regulars at maybe the 8 min mark. He entered the game with 3 minutes left. He is a scholarship player not a walk-on.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

I’m not saying empty the whole bench earlier. I’m saying put Eli in with the regulars at maybe the 8 min mark. He entered the game with 3 minutes left. He is a scholarship player not a walk-on.

I see what you mean. I'm guessing just not ready yet, or at least not trusted enough.

 

[JohnnyFive]

I think we need to take a step back with speculation on Eli. He's an off ball guard that is behind a lot of older guys (Grill, Kalscheur, Holmes) on a top 15 team. Just let him get a year to develop in practice and we can see what he has next year when there are minutes available. This team plays with a level of physicality im sure he didn't see much of in high school. Its not necessarily a bad thing he gets a year to practice and adjust before we expect him to have to be one of the guys.

He’s a true freshman on a team that lost its starting point guard a few weeks before the season started so it doesnt surprise me he’s playing pg. I agree he needs time to develop. Not everyone is a stud day one. Before one and dones became more prevalent it wasnt that common for freshman to even play that much, let alone be great out the gate.

 

[Cupped]

100% FT last night, and for the year. I'd like to see him working with Big Rob Energy on his stroke!

 

[NWICY]

I think we need to take a step back with speculation on Eli. He's an off ball guard that is behind a lot of older guys (Grill, Kalscheur, Holmes) on a top 15 team. Just let him get a year to develop in practice and we can see what he has next year when there are minutes available. This team plays with a level of physicality im sure he didn't see much of in high school. Its not necessarily a bad thing he gets a year to practice and adjust before we expect him to have to be one of the guys.

This right here. Many on this site were bemoaning Kalschuer, Jones, and Grill coming back It's amazing how much a yr or summer of practice can help. This isn't a perfect team but we are way better on offense this yr compared to last while still maintaining the defensive intensity.

 

[CloniesForLife]

He has good size and athleticism and this staff seems to be really good at player development. I think Eli will be good if he commits to improving himself

 

[madguy30]

No offense, but this board was full of the same attitude about Naz his freshman year. Some people take longer to adjust. It is WAY too early to write him off!

How many people completely wrote off Grill his first go round here and were convinced they were right when he left? I'm glad he has come back and proven us wrong!

You can bet people will start writing off Grill as soon as he has a rough game or two.

The same goes for Gabe and Bob.

 

[isucy86]

We lose Gabe and Holmes next year. There will be minutes available at that off guard position. Jeremiah Williams returns from injury and Jelani Hamilton is a promising recruit. Time will tell what we do in the transfer portal. I think there is a path for some major minutes for him next year. He is currently stuck behind two 5th year seniors in Gabe and Holmes who are both playing extremely well and have both played a ton of college ball. Gabe is playing at an All Big 12 level right now.

IMO the other battle for minutes could be the type of lineup TJ goes with. TJ could go with a traditional SF lineup with Watson or Biliew playing the 3 spot. Watson has really looked solid since Big12 play started and hopefully that trend continues. If Watson and/or Biliew can shoot mid-30's on 3 pt shots, that gives TJ ability to go big with a lot of lineup flexibility

PG: Lipsey / Williams
SG: Grill / Williams/ E King / Hamilton
SF: Watson / Biliew / Grill / E King / Hamilton
PF: T King/ Momcilovic / Biliew / Watson / Fish / Hawley
C: Jones / Ward / T King

 

[madguy30]

Based on watching high school and AAU highlights when we signed Eli, I sincerely thought he would be the first freshman from the class to get significant minutes. His athletic ability stood out. I also assumed he would be an off guard. TJ is playing him pretty much exclusively as a PG. I wonder if this has been the plan from day one and this is all part of the development.

I don't question why he isn't getting minutes over Lipsey, Grill, Gabe, and Holmes. I do question why he didn't enter the game much earlier in the second half when we were up 25+. I would have thought you could pair him with Lipsey and give him minutes at off guard. I would think that would be helpful to his development.

ISU gave up a 17 point lead last week in about 7-8 minutes and an 8 point lead in about one minute Saturday.

Tech was off last night but I'd guess closing it out with authority was a priority.