When do you think you will buy a 100% pure electric vehicle?

When will you buy a 100% pure electric vehicle?

  • Already Own One

    Votes: 58 7.1%
  • In the next year

    Votes: 8 1.0%
  • Between 1-5 years

    Votes: 143 17.4%
  • 6-10 years

    Votes: 184 22.4%
  • 10+ years or never

    Votes: 428 52.1%

  • Total voters
    821

JP4CY

Lord, beer me strength.
Staff member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 19, 2008
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Testifying
Question, say you replace batteries in a Tesla. Would that be "timestamped with the mileage" on the computer? Basically asking if the next person is told that I replaced the batteries at X number if miles if they can verify that?

Assuming so since it would most likely be a Tesla performed job?
 

ISUAlum2002

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
22,888
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Toon Town, IA
Question, say you replace batteries in a Tesla. Would that be "timestamped with the mileage" on the computer? Basically asking if the next person is told that I replaced the batteries at X number if miles if they can verify that?

Assuming so since it would most likely be a Tesla performed job?
Hmm, good question. I don't know of a way they would indicate an HV battery change in the car's UI for an owner to readily see, but certainly it would be in Tesla's records if they perform the swap. Would Tesla tell you if the car had an HV battery change if you provided the VIN and asked them? Don't know. If you bought the car or were considering purchasing from a private party, they would be able to show you the date/mileage of all service work performed by Tesla in the app, including an HV battery change. I don't know if the service history transfers to a new owner when they link up to the car in the app.

Did some searching just now in a couple Tesla forums and didn't see any owners who have had HV battery replacements say there is an indicator in the car itself. Doesn't mean there isn't one, though.
 

CyCloned

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2006
13,602
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Robins, Iowa
Used market? Did you factor in that your will be buying new batteries?
Yes, that would be a huge factor. I am assuming that in the future we are going to see EVs with much more serviceable batteries, since it is generally 1 or 2 cells that go bad. What is required to replace a Tesla battery is insane.
 

isucy86

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2006
9,187
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Dubuque
Used market? Did you factor in that your will be buying new batteries?
I agree with your battery concern.

But when shopping for a used EV it should be very easy to determine the battery pack degradation. I would think the seller would have to provide that information. I don't own an EV, but with all the tech on board I would think the EV would track historical battery pack performance. Then its just a matter of discounting the EV's resale if batteries need replacing in next few years.

Hopefully battery packs get cheaper in 10-15 years.
 

isucy86

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Apr 13, 2006
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The batteries will likely last way longer than the actual vehicle.
What's the warranty on most batteries? 8-10 years

While I've heard with simplified engines, EV's could last 30 years. Especially in warm weather climates where rust isn't an issue.
 

BryceC

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Mar 23, 2006
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What's the warranty on most batteries? 8-10 years

While I've heard with simplified engines, EV's could last 30 years. Especially in warm weather climates where rust isn't an issue.


The warranty is 8 years 150k miles on most.

Most ICE vehicles have 5-7 year warranties or 60k miles ok power train stuff. It’s not like it fails immediately.

150k miles most cars are total junkers by then.
 
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isucy86

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2006
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Dubuque

The warranty is 8 years 150k miles on most.

Most ICE vehicles have 5-7 year warranties or 60k miles ok power train stuff. It’s not like it fails immediately.

150k miles most cars are total junkers by then.
The concern, degradation is estimated at 30percent after 8 years and continues to decline from there. So getting 210 mile range after 8 years is a big deal vs. 300 mile range when new.

The move toward EV's has sparked a ton of R&D in the vehicle marketplace, so one has to hope that in 5-10 years quantum leaps in battery tech are achieved. That and autonomous driving vehicles.
 
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dmclone

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Oct 20, 2006
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The concern, degradation is estimated at 30percent after 8 years
Do you understand that the 30% percent you quoted is for the warranty? That's NOT the expectation.

Even with old technology, Tesla is seeing the following.

"According to the company, the average battery capacity loses after 200,000 miles (322,000 km) is 12 percent of the original capacity."

So 264 mile range after 200k miles.
 

CyCoug

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2021
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Here to report my first two experiences renting EVs. TL/DR: For city driving, we had a fine experience. For longer trips range anxiety is real. Also, the reason we did EV's is because I chose "Manager's Specials" deals. So it seems like demand isn't what the companies have hoped for.

Last weekend, we rented a Hyundai Ionic 5 in LA. The hotel we were at had 3 charging stations. The first night 2 of the 3 were being used for charging and the 3rd spot was taken by a Tesla without charging. I assume purely for the convenience of the close parking spot. Total &$@@ move that erases the good karma of driving an EV 10x over IMHO.

We were staying just around the city visiting my wife's brothers and going to a concert, so it wasn't too worrisome. But the next night we parked at the LA zoo to take a shuttle to the concert. They had a row of about 8 chargers and only 3 were taken. So, we plugged in, charged for free, and came back to 100% charged car.

The next phase of the trip was flying into Miami and driving across alligator alley. That part made me the most nervous. This time, they gave us a Polestar 2. The car was only 70% charged with a listed range of 190 miles. That made me nervous because it's a 140-mile drive to where we were going, and there is nothing (not even gas stations) for the better part of 100 miles on that road.

So we left the airport and used the ChargePoint app. It showed many open chargers of the University of Miami. I thought it might be cool to check out the U, so we headed down there. It turns out the reason so many chargers were listed as open was because the parking garages were closed.

After about 30 minutes, we found chargers in the city of Coral Gables municipal garage. I was under the impression that public chargers could take a battery from 70% to say 90% in a half hour.

But when I plugged in, it told us it would be 4 hours until full. So we hung out in a park in front of the city hall for an hour and a half. Our level had gone up about 20% in that time back to about 85%. Range was listed as 220 miles. I figured that was enough, so we hit the road. However, as soon as we hit freeway speeds the 220 estimate dropped to 200, which made me nervous again. So I held back at 10 under the speed limit for most of the drive through the Everglades. Once we got back to civilization at Naples, I went back up to the speed limit. We pulled in with 27% of the battery left (about 80 miles of range).

Fortunately, there are some Level 2 chargers close by. Unfortunately, I now know it will be a several-hour endeavor.

We have to drive back next Sunday. I'll leave with it at 100% and probably just pay the $35 fee for not having it charged to 70% or more.
 

dmclone

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2006
21,605
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Here to report my first two experiences renting EVs. TL/DR: For city driving, we had a fine experience. For longer trips range anxiety is real. Also, the reason we did EV's is because I chose "Manager's Specials" deals. So it seems like demand isn't what the companies have hoped for.

Last weekend, we rented a Hyundai Ionic 5 in LA. The hotel we were at had 3 charging stations. The first night 2 of the 3 were being used for charging and the 3rd spot was taken by a Tesla without charging. I assume purely for the convenience of the close parking spot. Total &$@@ move that erases the good karma of driving an EV 10x over IMHO.

We were staying just around the city visiting my wife's brothers and going to a concert, so it wasn't too worrisome. But the next night we parked at the LA zoo to take a shuttle to the concert. They had a row of about 8 chargers and only 3 were taken. So, we plugged in, charged for free, and came back to 100% charged car.

The next phase of the trip was flying into Miami and driving across alligator alley. That part made me the most nervous. This time, they gave us a Polestar 2. The car was only 70% charged with a listed range of 190 miles. That made me nervous because it's a 140-mile drive to where we were going, and there is nothing (not even gas stations) for the better part of 100 miles on that road.

So we left the airport and used the ChargePoint app. It showed many open chargers of the University of Miami. I thought it might be cool to check out the U, so we headed down there. It turns out the reason so many chargers were listed as open was because the parking garages were closed.

After about 30 minutes, we found chargers in the city of Coral Gables municipal garage. I was under the impression that public chargers could take a battery from 70% to say 90% in a half hour.

But when I plugged in, it told us it would be 4 hours until full. So we hung out in a park in front of the city hall for an hour and a half. Our level had gone up about 20% in that time back to about 85%. Range was listed as 220 miles. I figured that was enough, so we hit the road. However, as soon as we hit freeway speeds the 220 estimate dropped to 200, which made me nervous again. So I held back at 10 under the speed limit for most of the drive through the Everglades. Once we got back to civilization at Naples, I went back up to the speed limit. We pulled in with 27% of the battery left (about 80 miles of range).

Fortunately, there are some Level 2 chargers close by. Unfortunately, I now know it will be a several-hour endeavor.

We have to drive back next Sunday. I'll leave with it at 100% and probably just pay the $35 fee for not having it charged to 70% or more.
So Tesla's were not an option?

A few reasons why your charging is so slow.

#1 You're using ChargePoint chargers that are 3.3-6.6kw, which will give you about 10-20 miles per hour. Level 2 usually get you double that speed. Not real fast but much better.

#2 Even if you were using Level 3 chargers, it would be a little bit slow because you're battery is already at 70%.

I think you're experience goes to show how important the charging network is. Range anxiety is real. I completely agree on the person taking a spot and not charging, complete jerk move. The last time I charged at a hotel, I went downstairs and moved my car once it was charged so someone else could plug in.
 
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CyCoug

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So Tesla's were not an option?

A few reasons why your charging is so slow.

#1 You're using ChargePoint chargers that are 3.3-6.6kw, which will give you about 10-20 miles per hour. Level 2 usually get you double that speed. Not real fast but much better.

#2 Even if you were using Level 3 chargers, it would be a little bit slow because you're battery is already at 70%.

I think you're experience goes to show how important the charging network is. Range anxiety is real. I completely agree on the person taking a spot and not charging, complete jerk move. The last time I charged at a hotel, I went downstairs and moved my car once it was charged so someone else could plug in.
For the first rental, I could have had a Tesla if I was willing to wait. They didn't have one ready, and I just wanted to get going with the day.

The second rental was "you will take what we give you". They were going to give me a Chevy Bolt at first, but it wasn't ready, so they ended up giving me the Polestar. A worth upgrade in my opinion.

Thank you for the advice on the chargers. I did notice in the app there is an option to filter to different types. I even see DC super chargers, but none real close. What would the charge time be for those?
 

dmclone

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2006
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For the first rental, I could have had a Tesla if I was willing to wait. They didn't have one ready, and I just wanted to get going with the day.

The second rental was "you will take what we give you". They were going to give me a Chevy Bolt at first, but it wasn't ready, so they ended up giving me the Polestar. A worth upgrade in my opinion.

Thank you for the advice on the chargers. I did notice in the app there is an option to filter to different types. I even see DC super chargers, but none real close. What would the charge time be for those?
I believe those DC chargers tend to be fast but like you said, are rare to find.

Just to give you an idea of what charging in a Tesla is like on a supercharger:

When I'm on a 250 KW SuperCharger and my battery is around 20%, it charges at nearly 1000 miles per hour. It reduces a lot once you get past 80%.. You can see in this graph, it takes as long to go from 8% to 65% as it does 65% to 90% when using V3. This is why you learn to trust the Tesla software when it comes to charging. It preconditions your battery before charging and tries to get you in that fast charge mode. I'm still a little cautious, especially if I'm far from home.



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L123-diagrams-Tesla-v5.jpg
 

IcSyU

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2007
28,307
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Level 1: LOL. Don't even bother.
Level 2: Normally worth using. Roughly an hour for me to go 0-80% on most chargers (they are normally 62.5-125 kwh chargers). I normally try to work these around times to eat.
Level 3: Now you're getting your half hour or less from 0-80

For reference the extended range Mach E has a 99 kwh battery. The game changer will potentially be when the supercharger network is opened but I'll need to see it to believe it.

80-100% always takes forever due to the batteries (li-ion) no different than say...your cell phone.

I have an EV...no way in hell I'd ever want to rent one in an area I don't know very well.
 

mramseyISU

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Nov 8, 2006
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Waterloo, IA
I recently spent 3 weeks in the Tahoe area, 2 weeks hiking tahoe rim trail trail away from civilization but a few days before and after in Truckee and other nearby towns.

Normal typical gas price $7.10. (back here in LA it’s about $5.60)

Electric equivalent is about $1.30.

I know Rivian is a luxury brand/price to an extent, but the combo of wealthy people, crazy high gas price, and outdoor off-road lifestyle makes a Rivian one of the most common vehicles for residents there. You see them everywhere, it’s like seeing a Chevy or Honda other places.

In a few areas the question is flipped, how can anybody NOT buy an EV with that massive fuel cost difference? I mean it’s a huge luxury choice to keep buying gas at 7x the fuel cost. Even with my typical $5 gas I’m thinking I can’t afford for my next car to be pure ICE only, I have a plug in hybrid and the plug in aspect has more than paid for itself In 2.5 years vs if I had gotten the standard ICE model.
We're just not there with the price difference in gas here in the midwest, I paid under $3/gallon this weekend and if I go into the office I have an 8 mile round trip commute so it's costing me maybe $8-$10 a week in gas right now to drive my truck. Factor in that it's paid off getting a BEV doesn't pencil out financially for me at all. Now fast forward to when I do decide it's time for a new vehicle that math might work ok to get a BEV but if I want another truck I really only have one option where it's easy to compare powertrains and it's a $10k difference between a hybrid and a BEV version still. That $7500 tax credit helps but still it's more money. It's getting closer but I just can't bring myself to spend $75k on a new vehicle.