When do you think you will buy a 100% pure electric vehicle?

[BoxsterCy]

I’m somewhat a car guy and the two things stopping me right now are that I enjoy a company vehicle and that for my use (work: avoiding overnight trips) I would need at least a true 600 mile range year round. Personally I hope the claims of 900 mile range vehicles do come true in the near future.

I drive so few miles it won't save me much if anything. Thinking more it being the right thing to do at some point. Glad I don't need to be buying right now. I'd be in a quandary of choosing between what I think I SHOULD do, what I want versus what's available with a big mix of what do I actually need thrown in.

We've had peeps in the need long range frequently group, the need long range sometimes but few here in the rarely need long range group (me). Drove to Medicine Lake yesterday, round trip 10 miles. Heading over to LifeTime Fitness in a few minutes, 5 mile round trip. Monday was grocery run, 5 miles roundtrip. Hell, I should just dump the car and Uber.

 

[herbicide]

….Hell, I should just dump the car and Uber.

I might be tempted if I were in your shoes! I’ve almost bought an electric bike countless times for those short trips like those. Then I remind myself about the weather for half the year in central Iowa…

 

[HFCS]

Yes, they make a lot of fuel stops. A typical passenger truck might have a 25 gallon tank, get 15-20mpg not pulling, so say a 500 mile range. Pulling a trailer will have varying effects on that mpg, but typically it will cut it by 30 to 50%. So now with that example you’re looking at a 250 mile range when pulling.

I thought something like that but I wondered the way some people talk if they had some massive tank I didn't know about.

Towing is a legitimate argument, especially against first generation EV trucks in areas with few charging stations but I suspect only a very tiny % of people really have that concern. For at least some it's probably another way to express range anxiety. I couldn't believe on my latest annual fall trip up and down west coast/mountains how many more chargers there are than even one year prior...there's no way "I can't find a charger" is a valid thought in the western US anymore. The more valid but still overblown concern for basic passenger vehicles in the west where chargers are common is "I don't want to spend 30 minutes refueling on a road trip instead of 10 minutes". What I keep telling people is unless you road trip every single day of your life, that 30 minutes vs 10 minutes fueling on a road trip is more than made up for the fact that you have your own personal fueling station where your car leaves the house on FULL every single morning.

 

[dmclone]

I''ve been a "car guy" for 40 years. I've had tons of sports cars, luxury cars, motorcycles, atv's, muscle cars, etc. I've probably had 5-10 times in my life time where a vehicle made me actually giggle. The first time I rode a Hayabusa, doing a huge jump on a quad, driving on the autobahn and getting passed by a Ferrari at speed, first time driving a muscle car with a 500hp v8, etc. The first time I pinned the throttle in a Tesla made me feel this way. I felt like I was thrown into the future. If you haven't driven one, and you're a car nut, treat yourself to drive one before making judgement.

 

[herbicide]

….The more valid but still overblown concern for basic passenger vehicles in the west where chargers are common is "I don't want to spend 30 minutes refueling on a road trip instead of 10 minutes". What I keep telling people is unless you road trip every single day of your life, that 30 minutes vs 10 minutes fueling on a road trip is more than made up for the fact that you have your own personal fueling station where your car leaves the house on FULL every single morning.

My personal situation is for work I often (about 1-2 per week average) find myself driving from central Iowa to a destination from 100-250 miles one way (200-500 miles round trip). Perhaps half of the times to the Omaha or Sioux City area, but the other half would be in towns/areas that the majority of our audience have never heard of. It might be one thing if fast chargers were along my routes for these ‘remote’ destinations, but right now they certainly are not. Even if they were, adding an extra hour to the longer trips would push these trips from a long day into an overnight trip.

Long story short although I see myself as an outlier and exception, I wholeheartedly agree with you here.

 

[dmclone]

My personal situation is for work I often (about 1-2 per week average) find myself driving from central Iowa to a destination from 100-250 miles one way (200-500 miles round trip). Perhaps half of the times to the Omaha or Sioux City area, but the other half would be in towns/areas that the majority of our audience have never heard of. It might be one thing if fast chargers were along my routes for these ‘remote’ destinations, but right now they certainly are not. Even if they were, adding an extra hour to the longer trips would push these trips from a long day into an overnight trip.

Long story short although I see myself as an outlier and exception, I wholeheartedly agree with you here.

Yes, your use case would work well for a hybrid.

 

[HFCS]

My personal situation is for work I often (about 1-2 per week average) find myself driving from central Iowa to a destination from 100-250 miles one way (200-500 miles round trip). Perhaps half of the times to the Omaha or Sioux City area, but the other half would be in towns/areas that the majority of our audience have never heard of. It might be one thing if fast chargers were along my routes for these ‘remote’ destinations, but right now they certainly are not. Even if they were, adding an extra hour to the longer trips would push these trips from a long day into an overnight trip.

Long story short although I see myself as an outlier and exception, I wholeheartedly agree with you here.

In terms of the "future"...in CA anyway...it's the very remote desert areas "in between" places where charging stations are really starting to multiply or you see brand new gas stations trying to capitalize on being a place to charge and eat some real food in those 30 minutes.

The high gas prices made a new EV cheaper to own than a new comparable gas car here...which created demand and explosion of EVs on the road. The market realized the demand to charge isn't really in the city where people charge at home/work or there are already chargers around town. The real demand was out in the middle of nowhere between destinations and the explosion of chargers in those remote areas seems to be this year and last year...about 5 years after EVs became common.

But the reality is yes it does take 30 mintues vs 10 minutes...just there's no longer the "where will i charge" because it's about as easy as finding a gas station now, maybe slightly harder but not much. IMHO on a road trip it's about eating where you charge to avoid losing time.

 

[herbicide]

Yes

Yes, your use case would work well for a hybrid

Yes, if I were to choose my own vehicle (company currently has those honors) it would likely be a Camry or Accord Hybrid.

 

[BryceC]

Someone on another board I'm on said it best:

"As the world's largest automaker and producer of vehicles that utilize farm tractor engine technology,Toyota has been pushing anti-EV propaganda for years. They heavily influence all of the Japanese automakers. Their embarrassing hydrogen efforts and solid state claims have been nothing more than a red herring. If these were statements by Tesla or Rivian, we'd have seen at least two dozen inquiries from the SEC. For a company that made hybrid vehicles a ubiquitous sight in every corner of the world, Toyota has gone from hero to zero in a matter of only a couple years."

What does Toyota have to gain by putting news into the world about them having solid state battery by 2027 if it's not true? I'm very confused by this.

 

[dmclone]

What does Toyota have to gain by putting news into the world about them having solid state battery by 2027 if it's not true? I'm very confused by this.

Because Toyota, a brand that killed it with hybrids, has been a complete failure when it comes to EV's. Here is an interesting read:

How the World’s Most Valuable Carmaker Fell Perilously Behind on Electric Vehicles

The company went from green pioneer to being uttered in the same breath as Exxon.

slate.com

They've been talking about SSB's for awhile now. This was the brief moment when they weren't talking aobut hydrogen being the only option.

Toyota Announces 4-layer All-solid-state Battery

Toyota Motor Corp unveiled a prototype of its all-solid-state battery in Japan. It is a laminated cell measuring about 10 x 10cm. Four s...

www.electric-vehiclenews.com

Oh here they are in 2017 promising 2022

Toyota plans to use solid-state batteries to enable longer-range EVs with fast-charging

We reported on how Toyota is late to the electric car revolution just yesterday. While the Japanese automaker doesn’t seem...

electrek.co

Toyota wants their customers to wait for the next big thing. They know they are going to lose market share, they know they are late to the game, and this is their only hope from being pushed out as the largest automaker. At this point, they are making Ford and GM look progressive.

 

[mramseyISU]

I might be tempted if I were in your shoes! I’ve almost bought an electric bike countless times for those short trips like those. Then I remind myself about the weather for half the year in central Iowa…

I have an 8 mile round trip to the office and I make that trip 3 days a week right now. I've though a lot about getting an electric bike but I would not be on that thing from basically November to Late April and in the rain or when it's 100......

 

[herbicide]

….
Toyota wants their customers to wait for the next big thing. They know they are going to lose market share, ….

I would argue these projections on the next big thing are more about the shareholders than actual customers; ie keeping the stock prices high.

 

[Kinch]

I thought something like that but I wondered the way some people talk if they had some massive tank I didn't know about.

Towing is a legitimate argument, especially against first generation EV trucks in areas with few charging stations but I suspect only a very tiny % of people really have that concern. For at least some it's probably another way to express range anxiety. I couldn't believe on my latest annual fall trip up and down west coast/mountains how many more chargers there are than even one year prior...there's no way "I can't find a charger" is a valid thought in the western US anymore. The more valid but still overblown concern for basic passenger vehicles in the west where chargers are common is "I don't want to spend 30 minutes refueling on a road trip instead of 10 minutes". What I keep telling people is unless you road trip every single day of your life, that 30 minutes vs 10 minutes fueling on a road trip is more than made up for the fact that you have your own personal fueling station where your car leaves the house on FULL every single morning.

Many people have trailers, especially in rural Iowa. They are very important for our economy. They haul hay, skidloaders, tractors, wood, construction equipment, etc.. And they travel great distances. Every person I talk with who hauls, will probably not get an EV pickup. And they are a lot of people. I heard GM decided to scrapped whole production lines of EV pickups.

 

[dmclone]

Many people have trailers, especially in rural Iowa. They are very important for our economy. They haul hay, skidloaders, tractors, wood, construction equipment, etc.. And they travel great distances. Every person I talk with who hauls, will probably not get an EV pickup. And they are a lot of people. I heard GM decided to scrapped whole production lines of EV pickups.

For every one of those, there are 3 truck owners that use their truck to tow anything 1 or fewer times per year. So that means that nearly 100,000 of the 130,000 trucks sold in Iowa each year tow less than 2 times a year and most of them zero.

You Don't Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume

The full-size pickup truck has become America's best-selling vehicle by a country mile. But most Silverado, Ram, and F-Series buyers would be better served with a cheaper means of role-playing.

www.thedrive.com

 

[mramseyISU]

For every one of those, there are 3 truck owners that use their truck to tow anything 1 or fewer times per year. So that means that nearly 100,000 of the 130,000 trucks sold in Iowa each year tow less than 2 times a year and most of them zero.

You Don't Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume

The full-size pickup truck has become America's best-selling vehicle by a country mile. But most Silverado, Ram, and F-Series buyers would be better served with a cheaper means of role-playing.

www.thedrive.com

I don't tow a damn thing but I use the **** out of my bed. There's a whole bunch of stuff I throw back there I wouldn't want in a SUV or a car. I just don't need a King Ranch F350 to show how manly I am like a lot of guys do.

 

[MeowingCows]

Where did I say that?

Who do you think is against EVs right now? Think for a bit...think really hard.

Basically every Japanese manufacturer, since most of their strategy with vehicles involves tech lagging and using/reusing older mechanical parts that they've perfected for reliability reasons. None of them are the types to jump right in to a new technological opportunity.

As it pertains specifically to the US, Toyota has a much more vested interest in hard-lobbying our politics with how much of a production/manufacturing presence they maintain here. Toyota wants to slow down building EVs because they don't have any specialty in building EVs yet. Once they feel they are ready to compete large-scale, their tune will change overnight.

 

[dmclone]

I don't tow a damn thing but I used the **** out of my bed. There's a whole bunch of stuff I throw back there I wouldn't want in a SUV or a car. I just don't need a King Ranch F350 to show how manly I am like a lot of guys do.

And why can't that be an Ford Lightning?

 

[MeowingCows]

My experience with CVT's is terrible but now that I think of it, I just drove a new Highlander a few months ago and didn't even notice it had a CVT. So maybe they've improved a lot.

Scratch that, it wasn't a hybrid so it had an 8 speed auto.

Hybrid CVTs and mechanical CVTs are very different things. Hybrid CVTs are extremely reliable. Those are not the JATCO-made rubber bands Nissan put into their cars.

 

[mramseyISU]

And why can't that be an Ford Lightning?

When the price drops another $10k it could be.

 

[3TrueFans]

And why can't that be an Ford Lightning?

Because they cost $80k+