Williams & Blum Wednesday: Preseason poll, realignment speculation, and The Tornado Game

[Cyclonsin]

The Big 12 commish is obsessed with basketball and having a presence on the east coast. Those two may not be on the top of the wish list but they are definitely being discussed by the person on top and may be the most realistic options in his eyes.

I can get UCONN (even though I suspect their shiny new media contract complicates things), but is Syracuse still much of a draw? I know it hasn't been that long since Boeheim had them rolling, but it feels like they've plummeted deep down into the abyss of irrelevancy on the national stage. I think we'd be better served adding Louisville, honestly.

 

[werdnamanhill]

Agree, and the ship on UConn has likely sailed with very recent announcement of the new Big East TV deal with Fox, NBC and TNT. And having Syracuse and Louisville at the top of a wish list for B12 expansion is senseless. Yes, both have successful MBB histories but their results after the departures of Crum/Pitino and Boeheim are underwhelming and with no guarantee that they will return to prior levels of success.

And CW suggesting that he would prefer SMU over Stanford was a hoot.

NC State, Pitt, and SMU are the obvious choices imo. Louisville as well. But Syracuse is worthless in my opinion

 

[CascadeClone]

The Big 12 commish is obsessed with basketball and having a presence on the east coast. Those two may not be on the top of the wish list but they are definitely being discussed by the person on top and may be the most realistic options in his eyes.

I think there will be a Big12-BigEast bball "league" or partnership of some kind. Pulls tons of brands, viewers from high-pop areas, and it's nationwide. Assuming you also get some ACC implosion schools like Duke, you'd have a TON of big bball brands and 30+ teams. That's a LEAGUE, not just a conference.

Would you / could you do a bball playoff with the top 4 or 8 teams, and play best of 3 series in the matchups??? That's a lot of valuable content.

And UConn gets to play football with Big12 as a throw in.

 

[cykadelic2]

NC State, Pitt, and SMU are the obvious choices imo. Louisville as well. But Syracuse is worthless in my opinion

Pitt (and their sea of empty yellow seats at Heinz Field) and tiny SMU (who isn't even receiving TV money from the ACC) are obvious choices? Both belong in the class of Cuse, Wake and BC as expansion options. Absolutely no benefit to the B12 expanding with any of those 5.

 

[AuH2O]

NC State, Pitt, and SMU are the obvious choices imo. Louisville as well. But Syracuse is worthless in my opinion

I'll still say that NC State is the most undervalued of the ACC teams. My hope is the ACC implodes, the Big 10 and SEC take a few of the other schools and NC State is one that goes to the Big 12.

 

[WISCY1895]

NC State, Pitt, and SMU are the obvious choices imo. Louisville as well. But Syracuse is worthless in my opinion

I think Virginia Tech is one that needs to be mentioned. Very solid athletic department with an impressive home atmosphere and passionate fans

 

[ClubCy]

Pitt (and their sea of empty yellow seats at Heinz Field) and tiny SMU (who isn't even receiving TV money from the ACC) are obvious choices? Both belong in the class of Cuse, Wake and BC as expansion options. Absolutely no benefit to the B12 expanding with any of those 5.

Va tech, Ncst, Miami (I firmly believe they will not get the call), and pick your 4th I have no preference.

 

[cykadelic2]

The Big 12 commish is obsessed with basketball and having a presence on the east coast. Those two may not be on the top of the wish list but they are definitely being discussed by the person on top and may be the most realistic options in his eyes.

The new Big East TV deal essentially removed UConn as an option through the rest of the decade.

 

[jburke]

@ChrisMWilliams is North Carolina too busy on Grinder?!?!? You have no idea what you said….

 

[CascadeClone]

My theory has always been when the ACC implodes, the Big Ten and the SEC will 100% take...

Clemson
Florida State
Miami (FL)
North Carolina
Notre Dame (if they give up on independence)
Virginia

UNC and UVA have always felt like Big Ten schools to me -- big flagship state universities in high-population states with excellent academics and questionable football and good/great basketball.

Notre Dame is probably Big Ten bound if it joins a conference. I'm not sure it it would.

The others I could see going either way. Does the SEC want the big football brands of Clemson, Florida State, and Miami? Have they had enough football success lately to justify the add...? Do they want to have additional teams in territory already claimed by Florida and South Carolina in their footprint?

The next tier is the "might take" for the Big Ten and the SEC...

Duke (obviously a great basketball school, would pair well with UNC)
Georgia Tech (a long shot but excellent academics and strong foothold in Atlanta)
NC State (might be a backup to UNC for one or the other if they want a North Carolina outpost)
Virginia Tech (if the SEC wants another football school and a school in Virginia)

Any of these ones not taken by the Big Ten/SEC should be taken by the Big 12 save Georgia Tech (the Big 12 doesn't care about academics and already has a southern outpost in Orlando, though I could still see the case for having the only other P3 in Georgia the same way the Big 12 has the only over P3 team in Ohio with Cincinnati up against Ohio State). Duke and NC State would be solid additions if somehow available.

I think the Big 12 would keep going to take four or six total. These would be worth considering to fill out the roster to make the Big 12 of 20 or the Big 12 of 22 depending on the money...

Louisville (a good geographic fit, should have taken them when we took WVU)
Pitt (another good geographic fit, definitely want the Backyard Brawl in the conference)
SMU (if their billionaire sugar daddies are willing to plop down serious cash them why not, but it would have to be a good $$$ deal or a need for another to grab another Texas team)

I think these guys are screwed...

Boston College (don't see the value, Boston is a pro sports town)
California (we didn't want them last round when we had the chance)
Stanford (we didn't want them last round when we had the chance)
Syracuse (not much of a brand anymore... very sorry for your loss)
Wake Forest (very sorry for your loss)

One modal scenario that comes to mind...

Big Ten goes to 24 with UNC, UVA, The U, Duke, Georgia Tech, and Notre Dame
SEC goes to 18 with Clemson and Florida State and calls it a day
Big 12 snaps up NC State, Virginia Tech, Pitt, and Louisville to go to 20 and calls it a day

The remainder are just screwed. Maybe they backfill/de facto merge with the American in the eastern U.S. and Cal and Stanford end up with the Beavs and Coogs in the Mountain West.

I think you are pretty close with this.

There's 4 key brands the networks want consolidated - ND, FSU, Clemson, Miami. After that, I don't think they really care a lot. B1G academics might like UVA and UNC, but the networks don't care (UNC is probably a push).

I think basically one of 2 things will happen:
1) Only 2 teams jump to B1G (FSU and ?), the rest stay put and the ACC survives.
2) B1G takes 2, SEC takes 4 (likely the 6 you name above) and ACC dies

In the event of #2, Big12 takes at least 4 ACC rejects. And maybe 8? Or 7 plus UConn.

 

[BoomerClone]

I remember that entire day so well. It was weirdly warm, I was meeting college buddies at the tailgate at the grass lot closest to Vet Med (where I was going to announce my wife was pregnant with our first - she stayed home sick)...and then the sirens go off. I looked at my buddy and asked him if we should move to Hilton. He just looked at me and said, "Nah, we’re good and we can always jump that creek if it gets real bad." And we were fine. I also remember Berryman dominating how windy and cold the end of the game was.

I was right there with you. We were tailgating next to the creek. A cop came by and said we need to go to Hilton. I told him, “half a mile away, where 50,000 other people are heading? I’ll pass.” Sat right there and consumed, knowing there was not much we could do except jump in the creek if we needed to.

 

[agrabes]

I can get UCONN (even though I suspect their shiny new media contract complicates things), but is Syracuse still much of a draw? I know it hasn't been that long since Boeheim had them rolling, but it feels like they've plummeted deep down into the abyss of irrelevancy on the national stage. I think we'd be better served adding Louisville, honestly.

Agreed - of all the moves discussed you can understand how most would gain at least something in the short term as Blum/Williams discussed.

Corporate Naming Rights to Conference - Medium term money to help compete w/ B1G/SEC
Private Equity Investor - Short term money to deal with NCAA NIL lawsuit settlement

UConn - Back to Back BBall championships, football success reaching the Fiesta bowl in 2010 despite the bad team currently - In the right environment there's some kind of outside chance they become a bigger football brand/draw over time. If it were me deciding, I wouldn't choose them but I could at least understand how a reasonable person might think it was a good idea if they are locked in on basketball.

Syracuse - ??? No fanbase, no brand recognition, no meaningful success in football during the lifetime of current high school students who they could recruit to play for them (haven't reached a high level bowl game since 1999 despite playing in weak football conferences), NCAA tournament basketball success in recent years but never won the ACC (couldn't beat Duke/UNC) and typically not in discussions as a top team nationally. This is not a team you bring in to move the needle financially, even short term. No one is going to watch them. The few times I've tuned into one of their football games, it looked like they had low quality uniforms and facility and no one was at the game. Honestly, even for basketball they have a national championship in 2003 and I didn't even know until I looked them up.

Unless he's totally lost his mind, I can't imagine Yormark trying to add Syracuse. They're not even a great basketball add. I think the B12 presidents have also shown that they will restrain Yormark from getting too far out over his skis. If you want to add a team, at least add one with some tiny level of brand recognition and potential for success. Even Houston has more brand recognition than Syracuse by a wide margin.

 

[Rocco’sModernWorld]

I think someone needs to get explain to Williams what Grindr is. That was the best part of the interview.

 

[CloniesForLife]

Give me Va Tech, NC State, Pitt, and Louisville from the realistic ACC options. I'd take Duke but that feels like a really weird fit. Syracuse is a big hell no. I wonder if Duke and Cuse would ever go to the Big East?

 

[SolterraCyclone]

I think you are pretty close with this.

There's 4 key brands the networks want consolidated - ND, FSU, Clemson, Miami. After that, I don't think they really care a lot. B1G academics might like UVA and UNC, but the networks don't care (UNC is probably a push).

I think basically one of 2 things will happen:
1) Only 2 teams jump to B1G (FSU and ?), the rest stay put and the ACC survives.
2) B1G takes 2, SEC takes 4 (likely the 6 you name above) and ACC dies

In the event of #2, Big12 takes at least 4 ACC rejects. And maybe 8? Or 7 plus UConn.

If only Clemson, Florida State, Notre Dame, North Carolina, and UVa depart, I think the ACC will survive.

Virginia Tech, NC State, Miami, and Duke along with Louisville, Pitt, Stanford, and Cal probably would prefer to stick together and backfill versus jumping to the Big 12. It would be up to the TV networks at that point, but if the ACC remnants could secure a deal close to the Big 12, I predict they’d opt to stay together. Now, if one or more of Tech, State, Duke, or Miami get an invite to the P2, then the league crumbles.

Assuming UVa and North Carolina go to the B10, I’d think the SEC would want Tech and State to get a foothold in Virginia and North Carolina. And both are good football schools.

 

[AuH2O]

Agreed - of all the moves discussed you can understand how most would gain at least something in the short term as Blum/Williams discussed.

Corporate Naming Rights to Conference - Medium term money to help compete w/ B1G/SEC
Private Equity Investor - Short term money to deal with NCAA NIL lawsuit settlement

UConn - Back to Back BBall championships, football success reaching the Fiesta bowl in 2010 despite the bad team currently - In the right environment there's some kind of outside chance they become a bigger football brand/draw over time. If it were me deciding, I wouldn't choose them but I could at least understand how a reasonable person might think it was a good idea if they are locked in on basketball.

Syracuse - ??? No fanbase, no brand recognition, no meaningful success in football during the lifetime of current high school students who they could recruit to play for them (haven't reached a high level bowl game since 1999 despite playing in weak football conferences), NCAA tournament basketball success in recent years but never won the ACC (couldn't beat Duke/UNC) and typically not in discussions as a top team nationally. This is not a team you bring in to move the needle financially, even short term. No one is going to watch them. The few times I've tuned into one of their football games, it looked like they had low quality uniforms and facility and no one was at the game. Honestly, even for basketball they have a national championship in 2003 and I didn't even know until I looked them up.

Unless he's totally lost his mind, I can't imagine Yormark trying to add Syracuse. They're not even a great basketball add. I think the B12 presidents have also shown that they will restrain Yormark from getting too far out over his skis. If you want to add a team, at least add one with some tiny level of brand recognition and potential for success. Even Houston has more brand recognition than Syracuse by a wide margin.

That era of the Big East when UConn and Rutgers had success is meaningless. That was a gutted conference after all the good teams left. It was absolutely not a power conference at all.

 

[Cyowa 14]

Two things:

CW has mentioned it on like 3 different podcasts. KSU/Arizona is NOT a conference game. How can you pretend to know enough about their roster but their schedule?

Not sure if Blum was just being hypothetical or not but if Syracuse and UConn are two of the first teams that come if/when the next expansion comes I’ll eat a shoe and make a a sizable donation to WeWill. There’s no possible way those two are at the top of wishlist.

The KSU/Arizona game not being a conference game is one of the things I wanted to bring up on here, the other is CW continuously saying SMU is the biggest football brand in the ACC is ridiculous, how have those two not brought up Va Tech once when it comes to great additions for football? They are the clear cut #1 football brand left in the ACC besides FSU and Clemson

 

[cyclones500]

The KSU/Arizona game not being a conference game is one of the things I wanted to bring up on here, the other is CW continuously saying SMU is the biggest football brand in the ACC is ridiculous, how have those two not brought up Va Tech once when it comes to great additions for football? They are the clear cut #1 football brand left in the ACC besides FSU and Clemson

His SMU comment seems odd ... if it's such a major FB brand, wouldn't XII have added it during the pre-PAC expansion, instead of Houston? (Maybe even before that, in lieu of TCU).

 

[ClubCy]

His SMU comment seems odd ... if it's such a major FB brand, wouldn't XII have added it during the pre-PAC expansion, instead of Houston? (Maybe even before that, in lieu of TCU).

The KSU/Arizona game not being a conference game is one of the things I wanted to bring up on here, the other is CW continuously saying SMU is the biggest football brand in the ACC is ridiculous, how have those two not brought up Va Tech once when it comes to great additions for football? They are the clear cut #1 football brand left in the ACC besides FSU and Clemson

Nothing screams big football brand more than begging to get into a conference and then saying don’t worry you don’t have to pay us we will float ourselves to just be part of the club.

 

[cycloneworld]

His SMU comment seems odd ... if it's such a major FB brand, wouldn't XII have added it during the pre-PAC expansion, instead of Houston? (Maybe even before that, in lieu of TCU).

It’s such a major brand they have to pay their own way into the ACC? They have finished in the Top 25 once in the last 30 years I believe (last year).