Principal Financial-Remote work

wxman1

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jul 2, 2008
19,939
16,324
113
Cedar Rapids
People were though. And many more were doing daily household tasks while on meetings. Those were the verbatim reasons people were upset at the 4 days in office change at the place I work. They were only proving that their job could be outsourced to India for 1/3 the cost.

If you have a job that can disengage from meetings that much while working remotely, it was obvious that a corporation would find ways to run you off and save that cost.


I don’t love it, but this was clearly the path things were going to head down 4 years ago.

And to be fair, I’ve had zero issues leaving early, staying home multiple days in a row, etc for my kids since this policy change.
You aren't being honest with yourself if you thought every single person in a meeting was EVER fully engaged in a meeting regardless of if they were in office sitting in a room together or not.
 

cowgirl836

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2009
51,463
43,339
113
People were though. And many more were doing daily household tasks while on meetings. Those were the verbatim reasons people were upset at the 4 days in office change at the place I work. They were only proving that their job could be outsourced to India for 1/3 the cost.

If you have a job that can disengage from meetings that much while working remotely, it was obvious that a corporation would find ways to run you off and save that cost.

I don’t love it, but this was clearly the path things were going to head down 4 years ago.

And to be fair, I’ve had zero issues leaving early, staying home multiple days in a row, etc for my kids since this policy change.

People doing laundry in between meetings or washing dishes during a town hall wasn't the problem but I'm not surprised by the crowd stanning for corporations. There's never been a hurdle to firing poor performers (Montana excluded). These blanket policies are lazy and nothing more than passive layoffs that disproportionately impact certain groups. Bring on the dumbs, truth hurts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

cowgirl836

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2009
51,463
43,339
113
You aren't being honest with yourself if you thought every single person in a meeting was EVER fully engaged in a meeting regardless of if they were in office sitting in a room together or not.

Is it truly an all hands if you aren't side chatting at least 3 coworkers about the BS?
 

CycloneSpinning

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2022
1,052
1,350
113
44
People doing laundry in between meetings or washing dishes during a town hall wasn't the problem but I'm not surprised by the crowd stanning for corporations. There's never been a hurdle to firing poor performers (Montana excluded). These blanket policies are lazy and nothing more than passive layoffs that disproportionately impact certain groups. Bring on the dumbs, truth hurts.
We’re still working through what a post-Covid world looks like, but one thing that seems pretty clear is we need to continue to allow life and work to happen together. What that looks like is complicated, but an employer shouldn’t just expect a parent to willingly pay $10-$12,000/year for daycare when they were making it work. They also shouldn’t just expect people to flip and go back to 40 hour week in the office when they’ve gotten used to scheduling things here or there during the day, taking an occasional trip to the park with their kids for an hour…or even meeting a friend for lunch or coffee. Especially when we know that people actually perform better when they get their head out of a screen for a bit.

Part of that is (in my opinion) adjusting expectations for how we expect to interact with a company. If you expect someone to be answering your call and send you forms or provide on-demand assistance, you might have to deal with an overseas customer service rep. While a Mom may be able to provide more of the type of interaction you’re used to, but maybe that means she’s calling you back in two hours…or the next day. Just some thoughts. Obviously feel free to chime in and/or disagree.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Dopey

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2009
3,263
2,120
113
People doing laundry in between meetings or washing dishes during a town hall wasn't the problem but I'm not surprised by the crowd stanning for corporations. There's never been a hurdle to firing poor performers (Montana excluded). These blanket policies are lazy and nothing more than passive layoffs that disproportionately impact certain groups. Bring on the dumbs, truth hurts.


I’m not defending corporations. I think they, more than any other single thing, cause the highest percentage of issues in this country.

But they exist.

And their goal isn’t to maximize your work-life balance. Or happiness. It’s not even maximizing their customer satisfaction.

It’s share price.

And if a job can be done remotely, it can be done in India. And someone just got promoted because of that cost savings measure.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
67,705
63,769
113
Not exactly sure.
We’re still working through what a post-Covid world looks like, but one thing that seems pretty clear is we need to continue to allow life and work to happen together. What that looks like is complicated, but an employer shouldn’t just expect a parent to willingly pay $10-$12,000/year for daycare when they were making it work. They also shouldn’t just expect people to flip and go back to 40 hour week in the office when they’ve gotten used to scheduling things here or there during the day, taking an occasional trip to the park with their kids for an hour…or even meeting a friend for lunch or coffee. Especially when we know that people actually perform better when they get their head out of a screen for a bit.

Part of that is (in my opinion) adjusting expectations for how we expect to interact with a company. If you expect someone to be answering your call and send you forms or provide on-demand assistance, you might have to deal with an overseas customer service rep. While a Mom may be able to provide more of the type of interaction you’re used to, but maybe that means she’s calling you back in two hours…or the next day. Just some thoughts. Obviously feel free to chime in and/or disagree.
That last part may or may not work. I have a hog facility that another company rents from me. The guy they have that does the labor does most of his responsibilities after 3 pm. When a repair gets noticed many times I’m finding out after 5 pm. This requires me to quickly get there, figure the problem out and then hope it’s not something that needs parts ASAP to function since most places are closed by that time. It forces me to change my schedule dramatically. If I could fire the person (I was told the person would be doing the major stuff in the morning but it’s not written in the contract) I would but it’s not my call.

While this is one specific situation for a specific thing, it’s just an example of how if someone is performing their tasks at uncommon times regularly, it can force several others to have to change their schedules or alter their jobs for one person.

If it forces people that depend on you to semi-regularly alter their schedule then that could be a problem.
 

cowgirl836

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2009
51,463
43,339
113
We’re still working through what a post-Covid world looks like, but one thing that seems pretty clear is we need to continue to allow life and work to happen together. What that looks like is complicated, but an employer shouldn’t just expect a parent to willingly pay $10-$12,000/year for daycare when they were making it work. They also shouldn’t just expect people to flip and go back to 40 hour week in the office when they’ve gotten used to scheduling things here or there during the day, taking an occasional trip to the park with their kids for an hour…or even meeting a friend for lunch or coffee. Especially when we know that people actually perform better when they get their head out of a screen for a bit.

Part of that is (in my opinion) adjusting expectations for how we expect to interact with a company. If you expect someone to be answering your call and send you forms or provide on-demand assistance, you might have to deal with an overseas customer service rep. While a Mom may be able to provide more of the type of interaction you’re used to, but maybe that means she’s calling you back in two hours…or the next day. Just some thoughts. Obviously feel free to chime in and/or disagree.

Totally agree. Those centering the corporations here are missing the forest for the trees. And going back to 2019 isn't happening. The lack of imagination in what the future can look like is extremely prevalent.
 

Fishhead

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2010
1,696
1,285
113
54
The entire company or just your team? Had your team been abusing the policy and this was the response?
Everyone. They’ve wanted return to the office for awhile and knew our short staff would resist. Now they said eff it and they just ripped the band aid off. Downsize is a possibility but can’t imagine with how short staffed we are
 
  • Informative
Reactions: michaelrr1

cowgirl836

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2009
51,463
43,339
113
Everyone. They’ve wanted return to the office for awhile and knew our short staff would resist. Now they said eff it and they just ripped the band aid off. Downsize is a possibility but can’t imagine with how short staffed we are

What if you all refuse?
 

CycloneSpinning

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2022
1,052
1,350
113
44
That last part may or may not work. I have a hog facility that another company rents from me. The guy they have that does the labor does most of his responsibilities after 3 pm. When a repair gets noticed many times I’m finding out after 5 pm. This requires me to quickly get there, figure the problem out and then hope it’s not something that needs parts ASAP to function since most places are closed by that time. It forces me to change my schedule dramatically. If I could fire the person (I was told the person would be doing the major stuff in the morning but it’s not written in the contract) I would but it’s not my call.

While this is one specific situation for a specific thing, it’s just an example of how if someone is performing their tasks at uncommon times regularly, it can force several others to have to change their schedules or alter their jobs for one person.

If it forces people that depend on you to semi-regularly alter their schedule then that could be a problem.
I’m not defending corporations. I think they, more than any other single thing, cause the highest percentage of issues in this country.

But they exist.

And their goal isn’t to maximize your work-life balance. Or happiness. It’s not even maximizing their customer satisfaction.

It’s share price.

And if a job can be done remotely, it can be done in India. And someone just got promoted because of that cost savings measure.
I don’t necessarily disagree with anything either of you are saying…at least in terms of that this is how things have been looked at for 20 years…and in some ways much longer. But in many ways we have become slaves to year over year growth and our 401k balances… and what was supposed to make things easier just led to expectations that we would get things done faster/immediately.

The internet and email were supposed to cut down on the work week and make us more efficient. Same with the mobile phone. But I look back at old records and see that it was just the norm for people to have to mail things in, request physical copies, etc…all of which took substantially more time than it takes to do things now. But somehow people survived back then.

It seems to me that 40 years ago it was normal for a family to have one full-time worker…and sometimes one bringing in some smaller amount of income. Pensions were the norm. And prices of cars and homes relative to income were lower. We don’t seem to have improved our quality of life…only pace and stress levels.

So while I understand what corporations are wanting/trying to do, I’m rooting for the workers this time…even if it means I don’t get everything I would like as fast as I’m used to.
 

KnappShack

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2008
23,900
32,264
113
Parts Unknown
I don’t necessarily disagree with anything either of you are saying…at least in terms of that this is how things have been looked at for 20 years…and in some ways much longer. But in many ways we have become slaves to year over year growth and our 401k balances… and what was supposed to make things easier just led to expectations that we would get things done faster/immediately.

The internet and email were supposed to cut down on the work week and make us more efficient. Same with the mobile phone. But I look back at old records and see that it was just the norm for people to have to mail things in, request physical copies, etc…all of which took substantially more time than it takes to do things now. But somehow people survived back then.

It seems to me that 40 years ago it was normal for a family to have one full-time worker…and sometimes one bringing in some smaller amount of income. Pensions were the norm. And prices of cars and homes relative to income were lower. We don’t seem to have improved our quality of life…only pace and stress levels.

So while I understand what corporations are wanting/trying to do, I’m rooting for the workers this time…even if it means I don’t get everything I would like as fast as I’m used to.

Workers of the world, unite!!
 

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
67,705
63,769
113
Not exactly sure.
I don’t necessarily disagree with anything either of you are saying…at least in terms of that this is how things have been looked at for 20 years…and in some ways much longer. But in many ways we have become slaves to year over year growth and our 401k balances… and what was supposed to make things easier just led to expectations that we would get things done faster/immediately.

The internet and email were supposed to cut down on the work week and make us more efficient. Same with the mobile phone. But I look back at old records and see that it was just the norm for people to have to mail things in, request physical copies, etc…all of which took substantially more time than it takes to do things now. But somehow people survived back then.

It seems to me that 40 years ago it was normal for a family to have one full-time worker…and sometimes one bringing in some smaller amount of income. Pensions were the norm. And prices of cars and homes relative to income were lower. We don’t seem to have improved our quality of life…only pace and stress levels.

So while I understand what corporations are wanting/trying to do, I’m rooting for the workers this time…even if it means I don’t get everything I would like as fast as I’m used to.
I’ve felt the easiest solution is to go commission or per project pay. They have deadlines to be done by and worth X amount. You wanna work a crap load, you paid better, you want to go half speed routinely, your pay wouldn’t be so great. That way as long as you meet the deadline and requirements, you can set your own hours and pay pretty much.
 

Rabbuk

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2011
56,961
46,117
113
I’ve felt the easiest solution is to go commission or per project pay. They have deadlines to be done by and worth X amount. You wanna work a crap load, you paid better, you want to go half speed routinely, your pay wouldn’t be so great. That way as long as you meet the deadline and requirements, you can set your own hours and pay pretty much.
I mean the vast majority of the history of this country people could lead a reasonably prosperous life on one income without some exotic pay for unit produced system. Seems like we know how to do it already.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cowgirl836

isufbcurt

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2006
27,534
44,502
113
46
Newton
I’m not defending corporations. I think they, more than any other single thing, cause the highest percentage of issues in this country.

But they exist.

And their goal isn’t to maximize your work-life balance. Or happiness. It’s not even maximizing their customer satisfaction.

It’s share price.

And if a job can be done remotely, it can be done in India. And someone just got promoted because of that cost savings measure.

All the more reason to leave the corporation and start working for yourself.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Dopey and BCClone