11th Place

Clone_12

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KState has been a down program for years too, and now they're doing good under first year coach Frank Martin...do you think Martin is a fantastic coach? Or do you think it might have something to do with Beasley and Walker?...the coach you keep using as an example in your argument (Gillespie)...said that players and talent are "THE MOST IMPORTANT KEY TO SUCCESS"...Gillespie inherited King and Antoine Wright (lottery pick)...McDermott inherited Hubalek, Clark, Gray, and Marsden. It's tougher to win with the latter and moronic to think otherwise...that being said, nobody is disputing the fact that Billy is a great coach.
 
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cyclonenum1

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KState has been a down program for years too, and now they're doing good under first year coach Frank Martin...do you think Martin is a fantanstic coach? Or do you think it might have something to do with Beasley and Walker?...the coach you keep using as an example in your argument (Gillespie)...said that players and talent are "THE MOST IMPORTANT KEY TO SUCCESS"...Gillespie inherited King and Antoine Wright (lottery pick)...McDermott inherited Hubalek, Clark, Gray, and Marsden. It's tougher to win with the latter and moronic to think otherwise...that being said, nobody is disputing the fact the Billy is a great coach.

I clearly agree that having the right players is by far the most important thing in basketball.

Having said that, coaching in CBB involves both recruiting as well as coaching. It is my understanding that Frank Martin was the guy that got those two guys to KSU. So, yes, I am impressed with that...as well as what they have done from a W/L standpoint this year.

I find it interesting that you are pretty sure that McDermott is a fine coach "doing it the right way" when his two year results at ISU would not necessarily indicate that...while you are certain that Martin is not a good coach and is cheating at every turn when his one year results would say something a little different.

I would ask you...are you comfortable with the recruiting and retention of players during McDermott's tenure? He sure didn't do a very good job of trying to keep players when he came in after Morgan and some of those guys were pretty good. Both of his first two recruiting classes have suffered multiple guys leaving the program (with a couple leaving this year before the season even ended).
 

Clone_12

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Hill got Beasley and Walker to come to KState...(Beasley's AAU coach), so your understanding is evidently wrong...and btw, do you think it's a different case staying to play near identical styles with an assistant you know (Huggins to Martin), then staying to play in a COMPLETELY different style with a coach you don't know (Morgan to McDermott)? McDermott had a month to recruit Dunson and McIntosh to ISU, and Vette and Brister left ISU for reasons that had NOTHING to do with basketball, but nice try...I gotta split though, try to know what you are talking about before you spit comebacks back at me next time.
 

Wesley

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I hate that mentality. We always look at next year. Last year we said the same thing. We keep looking ahead to next season, its just sad.


2009-10 will be better than 2008-09. We are pretty much back at the new coach level with all the player shifting. Next year 16-17 wins, the following year 20 wins.
 

isuno1fan

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Mar 30, 2006
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While I'm on record saying I will keep my opinion to myself until after year #4, I see some reason for concern.

I also see some glimmer of hope, but if the ball doesn't bounce right, we will be in the same situation we are now 2 years down the road.
 

Clone_12

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Minor correction in last statement, Walker came for Huggins, Beasley came for Hill.
 

cyclonenum1

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Hill got Beasley and Walker to come to KState...(Beasley's AAU coach), so your understanding is evidently wrong...and btw, do you think it's a different case staying to play near identical styles with an assistant you know (Huggins to Martin), then staying to play in a COMPLETELY different style with a coach you don't know (Morgan to McDermott)? McDermott had a month to recruit Dunson and McIntosh to ISU, and Vette and Brister left ISU for reasons that had NOTHING to do with basketball, but nice try...I gotta split though, try to know what you are talking about before you spit comebacks back at me next time.

I'll take your word for it on who recruited these kids (even though it is against my better judgment)...because I really don't care.

I do know that these players were happy he was named head coach.

By the way..."nice try" by you pumping out some more excuses why we are mired in mediocrity (at best) while others will be playing in the "Big Dance" this year!

When did it become so prevalent for our fans to be total apologists for our coaches?
 

Incyte

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Apr 12, 2007
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When did it become so prevalent for our fans to be total apologists for our coaches?

Some of us appear to more in tune with reality than others.

IMO Wayne Morgan was judged too early and judging GMAC after year too (especially in light of the first year turnover and with what happened with Lucca and MT) is rediculous.

I really don't think more coacing turnover will solve our problem being it is the cause of much of our problems in the first place.
 

cyclonepower

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Oct 5, 2006
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Cyclone1...
I understand you obviously dont like McDermott. And I think you do make some very valid points. I hope he gets in turned around but the jury is still out. My question to you is what do you want? I mean do you want Wayne back because thats obviously not going to happen...Another firing is just going to bring more instability to the program. McDermott will be here his full contract I will guarantee you that, we dont have the resources to pay off another coach.
 

Clones85'

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Jan 31, 2007
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I clearly agree that having the right players is by far the most important thing in basketball.

Having said that, coaching in CBB involves both recruiting as well as coaching. It is my understanding that Frank Martin was the guy that got those two guys to KSU. So, yes, I am impressed with that...as well as what they have done from a W/L standpoint this year.

I find it interesting that you are pretty sure that McDermott is a fine coach "doing it the right way" when his two year results at ISU would not necessarily indicate that...while you are certain that Martin is not a good coach and is cheating at every turn when his one year results would say something a little different.

I would ask you...are you comfortable with the recruiting and retention of players during McDermott's tenure? He sure didn't do a very good job of trying to keep players when he came in after Morgan and some of those guys were pretty good. Both of his first two recruiting classes have suffered multiple guys leaving the program (with a couple leaving this year before the season even ended).

How does Martins first year results show that he isn't cheating or isn't a cheater?!?! That doesn't make any sense. Indiana is a top 20 team so there is no way Sampson cheated! Makes no sense. Martin is a cheater. You don't get banned from coaching high school athletics in Florida by doing things the clean way. If you want a coach like Martin than I suggest you cheer for a different team, b/c I like to think ISU will never hire a coach like him.

How do you know that coach didn't try and retain Morgan's players? Where you sitting in the meetings? When your starting a program you want your own players or players that want to be part of your program. Plus it has been more than rumored that Morgan told the players to go elsewhere.

The Gillispie and McD comparison is fine. Two guys taking over programs and trying to make them successful. Yes Gillespie walked into a lot of talent but we will turn the cheek on that small fact. But, let's make another comparison. Coach K from Duke. Decent coach last I heard. Coaches the US Olympic team. His first 3 years at Duke they were 38-47 and had much more recent success than we have had. Can you imagine if Duke would have fired him like some fans wanted? Duke has been a consistent power by doing it the right way. KSU will be gone in a year or two. Building a consistent program THE RIGHT WAY takes time!
 

nickwc

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Mar 27, 2007
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What we're missing is a big win. Have we had a big, kind of surpising, upset win since McDermott came to Ames?

ISU has came close with KU last year in OT, and Texas this year in OT, ISU just doesn't have the talent, expierence, or depth to compete in the big 12. And if anyone disagrees we are 11th in the big 12. Now, hopefully coach mac can turn all these things around!
 

cyclonenum1

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Nov 30, 2006
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Cyclone1...
I understand you obviously dont like McDermott. And I think you do make some very valid points. I hope he gets in turned around but the jury is still out. My question to you is what do you want? I mean do you want Wayne back because thats obviously not going to happen...Another firing is just going to bring more instability to the program. McDermott will be here his full contract I will guarantee you that, we dont have the resources to pay off another coach.

Actually, I do like McDermott and would like for him to succeed (sooner rather than later).

I am just not willing to totally discount what has transpired over the last two years. Frankly, I have been a little underwhelmed by our progress in that time period.

I just get sick of the constant "excusing away" of the mediocre (at best) nature of our program in its current state and the call for "giving it more time". I am not saying that we should cut McDermott loose right now but I do think we need to keep a very close eye on what is transpiring so we don't keep "waiting for next year" and at some point look up and realize we have had the same coach for 12 years and the program is in no better shape than when he arrived as happened with FB.
 

Wesley

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It would be easier to succeed if we had more scoring than just 3 people in lower double digits for points scored each game. Our rebounding is down from a year ago. Our turnovers are better. Our shooting is less.
 

cyclonenum1

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How does Martins first year results show that he isn't cheating or isn't a cheater?!?! That doesn't make any sense. Indiana is a top 20 team so there is no way Sampson cheated! Makes no sense. Martin is a cheater. You don't get banned from coaching high school athletics in Florida by doing things the clean way. If you want a coach like Martin than I suggest you cheer for a different team, b/c I like to think ISU will never hire a coach like him.

How do you know that coach didn't try and retain Morgan's players? Where you sitting in the meetings? When your starting a program you want your own players or players that want to be part of your program. Plus it has been more than rumored that Morgan told the players to go elsewhere.

The Gillispie and McD comparison is fine. Two guys taking over programs and trying to make them successful. Yes Gillespie walked into a lot of talent but we will turn the cheek on that small fact. But, let's make another comparison. Coach K from Duke. Decent coach last I heard. Coaches the US Olympic team. His first 3 years at Duke they were 38-47 and had much more recent success than we have had. Can you imagine if Duke would have fired him like some fans wanted? Duke has been a consistent power by doing it the right way. KSU will be gone in a year or two. Building a consistent program THE RIGHT WAY takes time!

Frankly, I don't know if he is cheating or not...and neither do you!

Did I say I wanted a coach like Martin?? I don't believe so. I was just pointing out that someone who posted was knocking his coaching ability...and he has a team with an excellent chance to make the NCAA tourney while that same poster thinks our coach is a super coach and he hasn't even sniffed at a post season bid while at ISU.

I don't know what McDermott did when he came in but the result was that a lot of pretty good players left our program. I know the man has "his system" but if you look at Coach K, for example, he adapts what he does every year to the strengths/talents of his team...he doesn't just revert to "running his system".

More excuses from you why Gillispie could get it done at A&M while McDermott has yet to do it at ISU. For your information, Coach K may have had a rough 3 year start at Duke but he did make the post season in one of those years (NIT...this was before the NCAA expanded to 64 teams...I believe they had a 48 team tournament his first 3 years at Duke). Not to mention that beginning in year 4 every one of his teams since has made the tourney (except 94-95 when he took leave for health reasons). Do you expect this same sort of success from McDermott based upon what we have seen to date?
 

Clones85'

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The 3 years previous to Coach K coming to Duke they went: Championship game, NCAA Tourney, Elite 8. He preceded to come in and go 38-47. They had way more tradition and recent success than ISU has had the past 5 years.

Do you really think that Martin is a good coach? They have the best player in the country, another NBA player, and good role players and they have still lost 9 games. He hasn't shown anymore in his short coaching stint than McD has in his. McD is 0-2 (more than likely) in trying to reach postseason play. 0-2!! The great Johnny Orr had 3 straight losing seasons when he came to Iowa State. A school like ISU can't reload overnight like some schools ( w/o cheating)

Those aren't excuses on Gillispie, they are facts. Look at the roster he walked into at A&M. Now look at the roster he walked into w/ Kentucky. A storied program like Kentucky and they are 15-10 in a weak SEC. Why? Doesn't have the players that fit his system.
 

ajk4st8

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Mar 27, 2006
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I honestly dont care how good we are wins/losses wise next year as long as I dont want to pull my hair out or puke everytime I watch us:)

I just want to see a team that can play the game the way its meant to be played. Run what looks like an offense. Play hard D and hustle. Dont turn the ball over alllll the time.

If we just looked halfway average in all departments, that would be enough to make me happy.
 

Ficklone02

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Apr 11, 2006
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While I'm on record saying I will keep my opinion to myself until after year #4, I see some reason for concern.

I also see some glimmer of hope, but if the ball doesn't bounce right, we will be in the same situation we are now 2 years down the road.
I have the same sentiments.....I know we aren't the most talented, but we do have some talent. Mostly, I just want to see us be more aggressive and look like we have a clue out there.
 

Clones85'

Just Win Baby
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I have the same sentiments.....I know we aren't the most talented, but we do have some talent. Mostly, I just want to see us be more aggressive and look like we have a clue out there.

Agree. Problem is we don't have talent in the positions where you really need the talent and that is in the guard position. If we have good guards we could have average big guys and still be a good team. Look at Drake for example. We also need to have no more players leave the team these next two years. Drake is starting 2 senior walk ons. Goes to show you how much being in a program for multiple years can do for you