11th Place

[snowcraig2.0]

As far as recruiting goes, I would rather see us not fill scholly's just because we need a body. If we can't get a QUALITY player then just let it go. I think we have absolutely WASTED some scholarships the last couple of years when we didn't need to...

On who did we waste them?

 

[cyclonenum1]

Brister's problem was definately out of McD's hands...and no cyclone#1 I don't have a problem with people having their doubts...it's just the continual ripping of our coach over and over and over again that gets me...and then the off the wall comparisons to coaches that inherit McDonald's All-Americans or go to legendary programs...and I think you are missing one key component when comparing McD to some of these coaches. Talent on the court...the number 1 factor for success. Maybe KState will make a run in the tourney, but right now they are underachieving more than we are. They have the best player in college basketball, and another 1st round NBA pick as his teammate, with good experienced role players, and have some VERY humbling losses. I judge coaches that are new to programs and using another coaches players by whether their teams overachieve or underachieve. Apparently you judge by wins and losses, and nothing else.

1) FYI to you...everything going on in our program is in McDermott's "hands"...that is why they pay him "the big bucks".

2) I don't think you can say that questioning what the coach does is "ripping the coach".

3) I have never initiated any comparison of McDermott to a legendary coach because he is far, far from legendary. Look back and you will see that those comparisons were initiated by others on the thread.

4) Apparently you totally discount wins and losses. I do judge by things other than wins and losses but I just happen to think that wins and losses are pretty damned important.

 

[cyclonenum1]

He was given a very short amount of time to get enough guys to field a team. You don't have the luxury of being picky. There were some interesting circumstances involved and it isn't as if McD drove them away from the program. It is hard to project that a kid will leave because he suffers from dyslexia or homesickeness.

In the end, he is held accountable for his recruits, but I can't put all the blame on McDermott's shoulders.

Who else gets some in your opinion?

 

[snowcraig2.0]

1) FYI to you...everything going on in our program is in McDermott's "hands"...that is why they pay him "the big bucks".

2) I don't think you can say that questioning what the coach does is "ripping the coach".

3) I have never initiated any comparison of McDermott to a legendary coach because he is far, far from legendary. Look back and you will see that those comparisons were initiated by others on the thread.

4) Apparently you totally discount wins and losses. I do judge by things other than wins and losses but I just happen to think that wins and losses are pretty damned important.

How many games have you actually watched this year?

 

[cyclonenum1]

I think comparing Mo Valley and success at UNI is just as bad as comparing McD success at North Dakota or wherever he was at. Playing in the Big 12 in Basketball and Football require a certain level of recruiting. I think the only comparisons that make since is comparing equal conferences or coaches in your our conference. Those are the ones you have to beat. If you are going to have the bottom of the recruiting class in either basketball or football you are going to end up at the bottom of the conference. Again, basketball is easier do to the number games. Get one or two great recruits and you are off to the races. One or two in football and oh well there is next year. As for recruiting McD first year it was better than his second year. Brackins is the exception and I don't know how he got him. But, he has some things to prove yet. When he got Brackins I said Boy if we can continue that we are on our way. But, now we are down to walk ons and etc. Every big name player goes someplace else. I'm not sure if it is McD or his assistants. But, we need some one to be able to recruit. You are trying to be in the big time. I hate Iowa, but I look at that team and coach and I say give them a year or two and they will be beating us like a drum. He has gotten some big games out of the talent that he was given. Coaching is necessary and some are a lot better than others. Recruiting is number one. All the coaching in the world is not going to turn poor talent into winners. Look at the freshmen that have been or is in the Big 12 now. I look at Texas KSU KU as examples, they have gotten NBA talent in freshmen. They don't have to be in 'THE SYSTEM' to be good. They turn those teams into conference leaders and NCAA tournment teams. All the coaching during game day as the one guy was saying that he see's from McD hasn't helped much. Maybe if he was getting his coaching through to the team during practice he wouldn't have to be waving his arms and telling his players where they should be on the floor.

Very nice post...get ready to be accused of "bashing our coach and our team".

I agree with what you say but most of the people on here bash coaches and teams that recruit the "one and done" superstars...because they are not "doing it the right way".

It seems that some believe "doing it the right way" means you have to rely on "coaching up" lesser talent and coaxing everything you can out of them after having them "in the system" for four or five years. That approach might get you enough wins in a conference like the MVC to get an NCAA bid (where you will get a low seed and be one and done) but you are absolutely correct...to compete in a conference like the Big 12 you need elite talent. Preferably, 2 or 3 of these type of players.

 

[cyclonenum1]

Dunson= Learning problems
Taylor= Problems
Vette= Who knows?

I give you McIntosh and Brister as legit guys who left just b/c. The other guys were really out of coaches hands.

I see the paradigm you are setting:

Not doing well, losses, problems in the program = all the players' fault.

Doing well, wins, great things happening in the program = all the credit to the coach.

The reality is in the middle. Don't you think McDermott should know a little something about the kids he is signing?

 

[cycloneworld]

I have been...we are just about the end of 2 years and counting...tick, tick, tick, tick...

I want to see some RESULTS...they are called wins, my friend, and far too few Cyclone fans appear interested in counting them these days.

You have admitted that you don't watch/follow many games so why do you care about results?

No offense, but you are one of the "fans" that are impossible to please. Heck, I remember having a discussion with you during football season where you were questioning the coaching ability of Les Miles saying it was all talent that was winning games. NOW you are changing your tune. Miles wins the national title and you basically discredit his coaching ability. That's really all I need to know about your positions on coaches.

 

[cyclonenum1]

You have admitted that you don't watch/follow many games so why do you care about results?

No offense, but you are one of the "fans" that are impossible to please. Heck, I remember having a discussion with you during football season where you were questioning the coaching ability of Les Miles saying it was all talent that was winning games. NOW you are changing your tune. Miles wins the national title and you basically discredit his coaching ability. That's really all I need to know about your positions on coaches.

Actually, being away from ISU and the state of Iowa has given me a great perspective on things that many of you don't have and will never have. I love ISU (and the state for that matter)...that is why I care about the results.

You need to read a little closer...my posts about Les Miles were telling you what the majority of LSU fans were thinking about Les Miles during the course of the season. I usually brought it up as a way to present a stark contrast between ISU fans that expect very little and are always looking to next year and LSU fans that expect a great deal and demand winning now.

It is no shocker that LSU canned their BB coach mid-season...less than two years after taking a team to the Final Four. That would never ever happen at ISU unless there was some other sort of major scandal at play.

I happen to think that ISU fans need to get a little more intense and LSU fans need to ease up a little on the intensity.

 

[isuno1fan]

You have admitted that you don't watch/follow many games so why do you care about results?

No offense, but you are one of the "fans" that are impossible to please. Heck, I remember having a discussion with you during football season where you were questioning the coaching ability of Les Miles saying it was all talent that was winning games. NOW you are changing your tune. Miles wins the national title and you basically discredit his coaching ability. That's really all I need to know about your positions on coaches.

Sorry...gotta agree with #1 here that Miles is an awful coach. He does some dumb, dumb things on the sideline.

 

[isuno1fan]

Objectively, I think Cyclone #1 is being VERY fair in his assessments. He justs wants to see progress as we all do, but it is not happening at this point. He has every right to express his concerns and he has been doing it with valid information IMO.

I have enjoyed reading both sides of this debate (minus name calling by one poster). This is what a message board is for and I thing both opinions have merit at this point in McD's tenure.

 

[cycloneworld]

Sorry...gotta agree with #1 here that Miles is an awful coach. He does some dumb, dumb things on the sideline.

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

Wait, wait....

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

Les Miles coaching record at LSU (in the toughest conference in the nation):
11-2
11-2
12-2

Hasn't lost a bowl game or even been challenged. He has a Peach Bowl win over Miami 40-3, a Sugar Bowl win over Notre Dame 41-14, and a national title win over OSU 38-24.

But you're right. He is an awful coach. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Objectively, I think Cyclone #1 is being VERY fair in his assessments. He justs wants to see progress as we all do, but it is not happening at this point. He has every right to express his concerns and he has been doing it with valid information IMO.

I have enjoyed reading both sides of this debate (minus name calling by one poster). This is what a message board is for and I thing both opinions have merit at this point in McD's tenure.

I don't have a problem with any of #1's assessments, although I think you give the guy until after year 3. It's his delivery that rubs me the wrong way.

 

[cybsball20]

Michael Beasley and Bill Walker will be soon

Oh, ok. I thought it was another slam on Morgan...

 

[PJZ]

Questioning progress is not the same thing as "bashing the coach".

I see a few ominous signs. We cant seem to win on the road. We are getting outscored in the second half and cant seem to hold a lead. And we have a ton of player turnover--and consequently this years team is worse than last years team, which was worse than the previous team. Of course, McDermott didnt make Mike Taylor steal a box of cold medicine, but Taylor didnt make McDermott give him a scholarship. Ultimately, recruiting and retention of players is the responsibility of the coach and his staff.

I hope next year is better too, but at some point we are going to have to stop chalking up our misfortunes and failures to bad luck..

 

[CyBobby]

We are now in sole possession of 11th in the Big 12...two games ahead of CU. :sad:

Last year we finished tied for 8th.

Realistically, I don't see us getting out of the 11th spot unless we beat Missouri on the road. The CU game will be a must win otherwise we will be in danger of becoming the #12 seed.

We can't afford to be worse next year. Being worse means we will be the worst team in the Big 12.

I'm still willing to give Greg Mcdermott another 8 years to get his act together and put us on the big 12 basketball map.

Basketball powers arent built overnite in places like Ames Ia and when you play in the toughest b-ball conference in the country it is gonna take some time to recruit enough good players to win many meaningful games in the big 12 conference.:yes:

 

[cybsball20]

On who did we waste them?

People have said we signed guys because we, 'needed bodies'. That is no reason to sign a guy to a scholarship...

 

[Wesley]

We still have a chance to win all four remaining games or lose all four. The newer players have to play tougher to win.

Best chance to win in priority order although there will rightfully be howls of disagreement from the group:
Colorado - too many young guys
Big 12 Tournament game - underdogs will do well in KC
KSU - slow Michael down in the middle and who knows
Kansas - clog the middle and the machine scoring slows down and get back on defense for heaven's sake
Missouri - expect them to play well in their last home game

 

[snowcraig2.0]

People have said we signed guys because we, 'needed bodies'. That is no reason to sign a guy to a scholarship...

I don't see any of our guys on scholarship that I would call a waste. Obviously you do. Who are you referring to?

 

[snowcraig2.0]

We still have a chance to win all four remaining games or lose all four. The newer players have to play tougher to win.

Best chance to win in priority order although there will rightfully be howls of disagreement from the group:
Colorado - too many young guys
Big 12 Tournament game - underdogs will do well in KC
KSU - slow Michael down in the middle and who knows
Kansas - clog the middle and the machine scoring slows down and get back on defense for heaven's sake
Missouri - expect them to play well in their last home game

If we win our last 4 games I promise to go on a week-long binge. Who is with me? :yes:

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Actually, being away from ISU and the state of Iowa has given me a great perspective on things that many of you don't have and will never have. I love ISU (and the state for that matter)...that is why I care about the results.

You need to read a little closer...my posts about Les Miles were telling you what the majority of LSU fans were thinking about Les Miles during the course of the season. I usually brought it up as a way to present a stark contrast between ISU fans that expect very little and are always looking to next year and LSU fans that expect a great deal and demand winning now.

It is no shocker that LSU canned their BB coach mid-season...less than two years after taking a team to the Final Four. That would never ever happen at ISU unless there was some other sort of major scandal at play.

I happen to think that ISU fans need to get a little more intense and LSU fans need to ease up a little on the intensity.

Still waiting to hear how many games you have actually watched this year????