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clone52

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So, Prohm might have been more successful if he tried to do it like TJ is doing it. Hear me out before you throw rotten tomatoes.

Hoiberg was successful having the team play an NBA style. Pick and role or isolation surrounded by GREAT shooters.

TJ came in and most fans would have been fine with slow steady progress. 12 wins then .500 then next four out then barely in the tournament. TJ goes the low ego, team first, all out hustle route and let's be honest, he won the lottery with this ragtag group of of players. A trio of semi disappointing holdover role players, a trio of high major transfers that were role players, a former blue chipper who couldn't cut it at a Blueblood, a low major transfer who was a fringe role player at that low major and a mid major transfer who may be the most bi-polar sharpshooter in the history of basketball. A blue chip freshman who is unshakeable whether things go good or go bad.
And boy are they low ego. Can anyone else think of a single player who bounced between a contributing player and riding the pine for multiple games back and forth? This team has 3 and by all accounts, none of them have pouted. Conditt sometes plays less than Jones, a player he could feel is way below his skill level, but never pouts. Grill doesn't let his going 1-11 then 5-6 then 1-2 then 0-9 from 3 affect the rest of his game or team chemistry. Same with Gabe, who's individual wide open 3 point shots might be end up in the basket, a brick off the rim, 3 feet from the rim, behind the backboard. I would not be stunned if he has a shot land in a tuba before he is done. That is 7 guys who would have a legitimate reason to get down on themselves and affect team chemistry.
99 times out of 100 the team pieces together like that would not be a winning BB team.

Could Prohm have tried that with a 4 year plan? Build a team of low ego hard workers. Not a chance if he doesn't win the lottery like TJ did early. The fan base at that time would not have had the patience. If he followed up his 13-18 season with a .500 record, he probably gets fired. He really had to try and keep doing it the Hoiberg way, which doesn't suit his style. I would argue that he wasn't far off from succeeding. If he and his staff were superstars at managing big Egos, maybe Lard blossoms and Wigginton stays another year. If THT and Halliburton weren't quite so good, maybe they each stay another year. 2020 is probably a tourney team and they have momentum in 2021 to rebuild with better players.

I 100% think TJ is better, even if Prohm had the opportunity to spend 4 or 5 years building a different style team. TJ seems to have the It factor in the way that he connects to players and the coaches he surrounds himself with.

I think Prohm could be successful at a Power 5 program who would give him the leeway to have 4-5 years to get to respectability. Nebraska right now comes to mind. Someone like Nebraska on the South East would be even better.
 
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Cyclonepride

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So, Prohm might have been more successful if he tried to do it like TJ is doing it. Hear me out before you throw rotten tomatoes.

Hoiberg was successful having the team play an NBA style. Pick and role or isolation surrounded by GREAT shooters.

TJ came in and most fans would have been fine with slow steady progress. 12 wins then .500 then next four out then barely in the tournament. TJ goes the low ego, team first, all out hustle route and let's be honest, he won the lottery with this ragtag group of of players. A trio of semi disappointing holdover role players, a trio of high major transfers that were role players, a former blue chipper who couldn't cut it at a Blueblood, a low major transfer who was a fringe role player at that low major and a mid major transfer who may be the most bi-polar sharpshooter in the history of basketball. A blue chip freshman who is unshakeable whether things go good or go bad.
And boy are they low ego. Can anyone else think of a single player who bounced between a contributing player and riding the pine for multiple games back and forth? This team has 3 and by all accounts, none of them have pouted. Conditt sometes plays less than Jones, a player he could feel is way below his skill level, but never pouts. Grill doesn't let his going 1-11 then 5-6 then 1-2 then 0-9 from 3 affect the rest of his game or team chemistry. Same with Gabe, who's individual wide open 3 point shots might be end up in the basket, a brick off the rim, 3 feet from the rim, behind the backboard. I would not be stunned if he has a shot land in a tuba before he is done. That is 7 guys who would have a legitimate reason to get down on themselves and affect team chemistry.
99 times out of 100 the team pieces together like that would not be a winning BB team.

Could Prohm have tried that with a 4 year plan? Build a team of low ego hard workers. Not a chance if he doesn't win the lottery like TJ did early. The fan base at that time would not have had the patience. If he followed up his 13-18 season with a .500 record, he probably gets fired. He really had to try and keep doing it the Hoiberg way, which doesn't suit his style. I would argue that he wasn't far off from succeeding. If he and his staff were superstars at managing big Egos, maybe Lard blossoms and Wigginton stays another year. If THT and Halliburton weren't quite so good, maybe they each stay another year. 2020 is probably a tourney team and they have momentum in 2021 to rebuild with better players.

I 100% think TJ is better, even if Prohm had the opportunity to spend 4 or 5 years building a different style team. TJ seems to have the It factor in the way that he connects to players and the coaches he surrounds himself with.

I think Prohm could be successful at a Power 5 program who would give him the leeway to have 4-5 years to get to respectability. Nebraska right now comes to mind. Someone like Nebraska on the South East would be even better.
I think Prohm's main downfall was that he tried to carry on the free flowing NBA offense that Fred installed, but he wasn't Fred, and didn't have the same feel for it. I think he would have done better had he installed his own unique thing (even if he did it after year one).
 

JP4CY

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I think Prohm's main downfall was that he tried to carry on the free flowing NBA offense that Fred installed, but he wasn't Fred, and didn't have the same feel for it. I think he would have done better had he installed his own unique thing (even if he did it after year one).
I think Steve is a great guy. When it came out the first year he was reaching out to Fred about some coaching questions we all probably should have been a little more questionable about his system.
 

jsb

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I think Steve is a great guy. When it came out the first year he was reaching out to Fred about some coaching questions we all probably should have been a little more questionable about his system.

I’m not trying to get into anything but that had a lot to do with the players being resistant to change.
 

rochclone

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So, Prohm might have been more successful if he tried to do it like TJ is doing it. Hear me out before you throw rotten tomatoes.

Hoiberg was successful having the team play an NBA style. Pick and role or isolation surrounded by GREAT shooters.

TJ came in and most fans would have been fine with slow steady progress. 12 wins then .500 then next four out then barely in the tournament. TJ goes the low ego, team first, all out hustle route and let's be honest, he won the lottery with this ragtag group of of players. A trio of semi disappointing holdover role players, a trio of high major transfers that were role players, a former blue chipper who couldn't cut it at a Blueblood, a low major transfer who was a fringe role player at that low major and a mid major transfer who may be the most bi-polar sharpshooter in the history of basketball. A blue chip freshman who is unshakeable whether things go good or go bad.
And boy are they low ego. Can anyone else think of a single player who bounced between a contributing player and riding the pine for multiple games back and forth? This team has 3 and by all accounts, none of them have pouted. Conditt sometes plays less than Jones, a player he could feel is way below his skill level, but never pouts. Grill doesn't let his going 1-11 then 5-6 then 1-2 then 0-9 from 3 affect the rest of his game or team chemistry. Same with Gabe, who's individual wide open 3 point shots might be end up in the basket, a brick off the rim, 3 feet from the rim, behind the backboard. I would not be stunned if he has a shot land in a tuba before he is done. That is 7 guys who would have a legitimate reason to get down on themselves and affect team chemistry.
99 times out of 100 the team pieces together like that would not be a winning BB team.

Could Prohm have tried that with a 4 year plan? Build a team of low ego hard workers. Not a chance if he doesn't win the lottery like TJ did early. The fan base at that time would not have had the patience. If he followed up his 13-18 season with a .500 record, he probably gets fired. He really had to try and keep doing it the Hoiberg way, which doesn't suit his style. I would argue that he wasn't far off from succeeding. If he and his staff were superstars at managing big Egos, maybe Lard blossoms and Wigginton stays another year. If THT and Halliburton weren't quite so good, maybe they each stay another year. 2020 is probably a tourney team and they have momentum in 2021 to rebuild with better players.

I 100% think TJ is better, even if Prohm had the opportunity to spend 4 or 5 years building a different style team. TJ seems to have the It factor in the way that he connects to players and the coaches he surrounds himself with.

I think Prohm could be successful at a Power 5 program who would give him the leeway to have 4-5 years to get to respectability. Nebraska right now comes to mind. Someone like Nebraska on the South East would be even better.

He had the opportunity to build it in that fashion with McKinley Wright. Prohm passed for Darius McNeil.
 

Die4Cy

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His main issue stemmed from wanting a player centered leadership culture but not really recruiting enough of those kinds of guys. So there was little internal accountability.
 
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BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
I think Steve is a great guy. When it came out the first year he was reaching out to Fred about some coaching questions we all probably should have been a little more questionable about his system.
I didnt' mind it with all the seniors he had, but he should have been laying the foundation for his groundwork for after that group. He seemed to feel he had to run a specific style to be P6. He was a HS recruiter that wasn't familiar with the portal. He needed to either bring in a coach with those ties or just focus on his HS stuff.
 

clone52

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I think Prohm's main downfall was that he tried to carry on the free flowing NBA offense that Fred installed, but he wasn't Fred, and didn't have the same feel for it. I think he would have done better had he installed his own unique thing (even if he did it after year one).
Yeah,100%. However, I am sure that would have caused a multi year rebuild that would not have been acceptable with the fan base or leadership unless he won the lottery and found the perfect mix of players.

Obviously he made a choice and it didn't work. However his other choice probably wouldn't have worked. If he followed up 13-18 with 15-16 and a slow, grind it out, defense centric style, would there have been any fans that would have wanted to give him any more time? Doubt it.
 
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JP4CY

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I didnt' mind it with all the seniors he had, but he should have been laying the foundation for his groundwork for after that group. He seemed to feel he had to run a specific style to be P6. He was a HS recruiter that wasn't familiar with the portal. He needed to either bring in a coach with those ties or just focus on his HS stuff.
He was really hit (Nick WB, Shayok) or miss (Bowie, Holden) with transfers. He definitely had a lot of in betweens like Harris, Jacobsen, etc.
I think we all know he could get HS kids to sign and if he ends up at a school where kids are more likely to stay, he could have success again.
 

dafarmer

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Did you see the offense he ran the last 2 years? The dribble outside and pass the ball around slowly, and the lack of any defense plans. Give it up. He might have been a "nice" man, but so is the Pope, and I sure as:rolleyes: #### didn't want him coaching ISU either.
 
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JP4CY

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Did you see the offense he ran the last 2 years? The dribble outside and pass the ball around slowly, and the lack of any defense plans. Give it up. He might have been a "nice" man, but so is the Pope, and I sure as:rolleyes: #### didn't want him coaching ISU either.
Who wanted Prohm to continue to coach ISU? His 4th year, we blew thru the B12 tourney and lost in the first round of the NCAA and we were scratching our heads, why. Then the next year, chemistry seemed way off and we were fading, and then in the last year you could tell he was a dead man walking.
It's OK to say Steve is a nice guy but was not a fit here. I say the same thing about McD, Rhoads, etc.
 
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Bestaluckcy

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I enjoyed the success CSP had, but it trailed off at the end. Larry E was similar in that he had success and then also started struggling before his scandal. Hope it’s not an ISU thing. The AD gets paid the big bucks to decide whether to play for a Bill F. type performance (good, rebuild, good) or just pay a buyout and buy hope. At the end of the day it is all in entertainment. Much goes into winning, and we probably will not reach “blue blood” status in my lifetime. Like that we don’t try to cheat our way there. At least we don’t have a “Fran” problem.
 

coolerifyoudid

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My $.02: We were Prohm's first P6 job. He walked into an incredible roster, but we were still his first P6 job. I think it really came down to not having what it took to keep reloading a complete roster and competing at the P6 level. He clearly had some good finds (especially PGs), but coaching against the quality of coaches in the Big XII is difficult and not for everyone.

McDermott took his lumps and learned from it. We'll see if Prohm has a desire to follow a similar path. I wish him well whatever he does.
 

isucy86

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Good to see Prohm back in coaching seemed like a good guy. Will be interesting on who he attracts for assistant coaches.