***2022 PGA Tour Thread***
- Thread starter BigJCy
- Start date
I'm not sure how the world rankings are calculated, but surely the field of the tournaments in which you participate has to be a significant factor, and if so, LIV players will have the golf equivalent of a cupcake schedule weighing them down heavily.
Just curious. Not trying to start a political war. But, why is everybody making a huge deal about "Saudi" money? Aren't they one of our allies? I know they have horrible laws, but how many athletes and movie stars take Chinese money? Is it more to due with the PGA not wanting the competition?
Let me know when a bunch of Chinese guys hijack domestic planes and take down the World Trade Center. How old are you lol?
So a terrorist attack from twenty years ago is the reason? I thought it had more to do with the way women are treated. And the beheadings.
But yes, China is a moral country and would never do anything to hurt Americans. Or run concentration camps.
I have spent way too much time thinking through this and I really struggle with coming to a final conclusion. On one hand, the Saudis are ******* awful in pretty much every humanitarian aspect you could be. This is not to be debated and it's the simplest part of this whole equation.
In Stephen A. Smith's voice- HOWEVA
I have a little trouble with arguments posed at times. First, they're an American ally who the president is going to visit here shortly. Now, I fully realize that those two things are wildly different and the US relationship with them is born out of necessity while golf is just an entertainment product. The problem with that line of argument is that if it's just and entertainment product, then why such a big deal? To me, you can't have it both ways where you downplay the importance of golf but then elevate the importance in regard to "sportswashing," which will bring me to my second point. The idea is that the Saudi's are doing this to help launder the perception people have a of them. The idea that that can actually work is almost offensive. I don't think people are that stupid and I don't think people are out there saying "Hey, Phil's playing for them, they must be good guys." It's just outrageous to me.
I will say that I would hold a different perspective on that side of things if this thing were ever to be profitable to the Saudi's. As it stands, the guys playing are simply taking money out of their pockets and it's most certainly not going to be returned in the short run to it's not like they are helping to fund the Kingdom. Again, if they were, totally different to me.
Then, I would like just one person to tell me where we're drawing the line on what is blood money and how many degrees of separation there needs to be for it to be acceptable. We know how Nike is making their products. So, it's fine for Rory to take Nike's money, partially made through human exploitation in China because it's been run through Nike? To be clear, I have zero problem with that but to me if we're going to talk "sportswashing" that's at least some level of it. I'm not going to sink to the level of "Well, did you drive your car today" as that's ridiculous but there has to be some sort of line. Maybe the line is just direct tie to the Saudi's and if it is, that's fine but I'm not sure that's really as virtuous as some may think. The China thing kind of boggles my mind. I'm still not really sure why people just willfully ignore what they have been and doing and continue to do over there. It's just kind of odd to me.
I think a lot of the outrage is born out of the frustration that there's nothing the existing golf establishment can do because the Saudi's are the only people out there who have the runway to do this. The PGL could probably offer a little more than the TOUR but they aren't offering these numbers. As I've said before, the TOUR has way too many liabilities on the balance sheet to even sniff those numbers and they're essentially just going to have to sit around and see what happens. If it's money, they're going to lose.
I've had a very similar reaction to all of this. I don't think my initial dislike is about the Saudis necessarily. I realize if you want to take a deep dive on the owners of teams, the sponsors, league affiliations, etc., you are likely going to find dealings with nations/organizations/business involved in human rights violations. I'm not naive enough to think this is the only league dealing with these types of individuals.
At the same time, there's just something about the rollout of the whole thing that is inherently seedy. You've got a known bad guy in Norman throwing gobs of money at unlikeable players, all on the backdrop of the money coming from a nation with a bad human rights record. There's just not really anything to like about that. Then you add onto it the cognitive dissonance shown by those who have joined who are willing to just evade any tough questions and feed everyone a line of bull**** about it being about anything more than a huge payday.
But with all that said you can still see the writing on the wall that this is here to stay and there's no much that can be done about it, which creates even more animosity. For as bad as it is now, it's going to work because the money behind it is just too substantial.
Saudi human rights, women's rights, 9/11 bombers from Saudi Arabia, Khashoggi murder.
I agree. The PGA, their Media Partners like CBS, etc. will raise a stink about the "dirty" Saudi money for about 6 months and then it will become unimportant. Just like the negative media attention for the NBA and some of its players related to China's human rights policies. Just like Russia's money and oil/natural gas was clean until it wasn't, but it will be clean again within a couple years.
It’s all of that, but yes mainly that they hijacked a bunch of planes and attacked us on American soil.
I agree with you on China, but there different levels of bad and China isn’t paying blood money to American PGA tour players yet so idk where all this China stuff even comes from.
no, but there is another league that does take a lot of chinese money.
I can't quite put my finger on why people keep bringing that up, kinda like how people keep bringing up Chicago in any thread about a violent event.
Still don’t see the connection to a golf tour exclusively owned by the Saudi monarchy directly paying Americans to damage a long-standing American institution.
Also still waiting for where China has ever attacked Americans on American soil. Not the same.
you and I are on the same side. I think you misread what I was saying.
The China argument is just a strawman, the entire point is to shift the discussion sway from the Saudi's. They want to compare the NBA and China with LIV and the Saudi's when they really aren't that similar in an attempt to "both sides" the issue.
I fully agree. Especially for a fan, there is zero to like about this product. I watched probably a total of 30 minutes of it out of shear curiosity and it was simply put, soulless golf with no context or meaning. It's clear no one cares. I think that's the heart of the issue for a lot of the people that do care about the game. It's that the people making all the money don't care about the game or the competition like others wish they would and everyone is helpless fighting it and they know it.
If I'm the TOUR, I'm going to lean on the competition factor. That's the only thing they have that could appeal more than money to a large group of narcissists. It's all they have and if they can't sell them on that, good riddance.
1)The Overall World Golf Ranking is done by an entity and has many requirements for a tournament outcome to receive points. One is at least 72 participants,....except for TW's little event.
2) The Masters is the 800 lb gorilla. In 1990, the PGA Tour required that any host a a tour event have non-discriminatory membership policies. Augusta National allowed its first female members in 2012.
3) The DP Tour will make its announcement on June 23.
I can see the DP accepting the LIV guys as regular members of that tour, let them LIV it up, and adjust their schedule accordingly,.....my guess.
www.golfchannel.com
2) The Masters is the 800 lb gorilla. In 1990, the PGA Tour required that any host a a tour event have non-discriminatory membership policies. Augusta National allowed its first female members in 2012.
3) The DP Tour will make its announcement on June 23.
I can see the DP accepting the LIV guys as regular members of that tour, let them LIV it up, and adjust their schedule accordingly,.....my guess.
DP World Tour not set to punish player for competing in LIV Golf events
DP World Tour chief executive Keith Pelley told his players that the tour wasn't prepared to penalized those competing in LIV events.
You don't have the capacity to discuss both issues?
It may not be as significant to you but it's not a strawman. The difference is how much wider China reaches in this country and how established they are, in general in the west. I mean, good grief, they have what, 2 million people in camps and the world is holding the Olympics there. Like, sure go play in the Olympics for your country there and Russia, but man we're drawing the line at taking money from the Saudis in golf. I don't think it's reasonable to ask the leagues not to try to reach into China, but I'm also not really going to condemn someone at this point for taking 9 figures from the Saudis when it's in no way funding their operation.
