60 Minutes segment on Allegiant Air
- Thread starter JP4CY
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Is this true? The entire engine structure is filled with blades that pull in and compress air...I'm not aviation expert but the whole housing is basically blades spinning and compressing/mixing air to push out the rear of engine. So if that was true you're talking about a good 5-6ft section that couldn't have windows.
It is true and in most cases the problems come with the fan blades at the front not the high speed and low speed compressor blades inside the engine. I will try to find it but I saw a picture this morning from the SWA engine that had at least one visible fan blade missing.
Plus you have to keep in mind that the fan blades are mostly in front of the wing. Many of the inlet/compressor/turbine blades are housed underneath the wing. So IF it were to come apart, the front blades can go essentially anywhere. The other blades (as silly as it seams to say this) would have to go through the wing before they could get direct access to the passenger compartment.
I'm not sure if it was confirmed what the shrapnel was exactly that punctured the window but with the weird shapes of the pieces breaking off it's not crazy to think something was ejected/twisted from air turbulence to hit the window and break it. I'm doubtful it was a lateral ejection of a fan blade piercing directly through the cabin. I'm completely speculating but I'm guessing it was a piece of cowling that was torn off from the drag and was impacted on the window as the plane flew past it. Dumb f'n luck.
I call bs: there are windows across the whole plane and the blade probably wouldn't fly directly in line with where it was connected. i.e. - it would go toward the back as this woman unfortunately found out.
Seems like the Pilot was crazy good. I flew on a C130 once and two of the engines went out. The Pilot said he could basically glide with no engines on a light C130. Meaning if the bay is not full of Cargo and Hummers he could glide it. I don't think Commerical airlines are designed that way and need power. So seems like this pilot did a heck of a job flying with just one engine.
I call bs: there are windows across the whole plane and the blade probably wouldn't fly directly in line with where it was connected. i.e. - it would go toward the back as this woman unfortunately found out.
And here is an example from the last uncontained engine failure where the blade impacted the fuselage at that exact point. **** happens.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-jet-engine-suffers-major-malfunction-n638811
You see a similar thing happened in 2016. Engine failure and the broken pieces tore off and impacted the side of the plane. Move that impact up about 6" and towards the stern around 4' and you'll see nearly an exact case of what we saw yesterday. Also a SW Airlines 737.
You see a similar thing happened in 2016. Engine failure and the broken pieces tore off and impacted the side of the plane. Move that impact up about 6" and towards the stern around 4' and you'll see nearly an exact case of what we saw yesterday. Also a SW Airlines 737.
Not quite true.
On the 737 specifically the "missing" windows are due to air ducts running through the sidewall in that area. The right side of the airplane does actually have a window there, it’s just the left side that doesn’t. This cutaway view of the newest generation 737 MAX8 shows 2 LHS windows missing where ducting runs. Other airplanes may have similar systems routings or structure (for example body joins where 2 major sections of the fuselage are spliced together) that results in skipping a window. Typically there are still seats in those rows as well.
More generally, passenger airplane engines and their casings (nacelles) are designed and certified to contain a fan blade breaking off. What it’s not possible to design for is a compressor or turbine disc breaking. In those cases you design to minimize collateral damage to the airplane and hope nobody gets directly hit in the process. (See Qantas flight 32) Window or no window doesn't really make much difference. Whether there’s . or .050" thick aluminum skin between you and the engine parts isn’t going to make much difference if it’s not your day.
In this case it appears that a fan blade may have broken off, but it’s unclear whether it was contained or not. Clearly the forward cowling came off as a result of the event, but the blade itself may have been contained by the casing because it doesn’t appear that the ring in-line with the fan disc was penetrated. Regardless, something (fan blade or other secondary engine pieces) hit the side of the fuselage hard enough to break/dislodge the window leading to a tragic accident. The NTSB will certainly get to the bottom of it as they always do.
Not quite true.
On the 737 specifically the "missing" windows are due to air ducts running through the sidewall in that area. The right side of the airplane does actually have a window there, it’s just the left side that doesn’t. This cutaway view of the newest generation 737 MAX8 shows 2 LHS windows missing where ducting runs. Other airplanes may have similar systems routings or structure (for example body joins where 2 major sections of the fuselage are spliced together) that results in skipping a window. Typically there are still seats in those rows as well.
More generally, passenger airplane engines and their casings (nacelles) are designed and certified to contain a fan blade breaking off. What it’s not possible to design for is a compressor or turbine disc breaking. In those cases you design to minimize collateral damage to the airplane and hope nobody gets directly hit in the process. (See Qantas flight 32) Window or no window doesn't really make much difference. Whether there’s . or .050" thick aluminum skin between you and the engine parts isn’t going to make much difference if it’s not your day.
In this case it appears that a fan blade may have broken off, but it’s unclear whether it was contained or not. Clearly the forward cowling came off as a result of the event, but the blade itself may have been contained by the casing because it doesn’t appear that the ring in-line with the fan disc was penetrated. Regardless, something (fan blade or other secondary engine pieces) hit the side of the fuselage hard enough to break/dislodge the window leading to a tragic accident. The NTSB will certainly get to the bottom of it as they always do.
I stand corrected. Is the cabin environmental system mostly contained within the wing box then or does the bleed air get routed somewhere else and then back up to that distribution point?
To change the subject a little: how the heck did they fly that plane with only one engine? Do they just coast down to wherever they can reach without any engine? Or fly circles? Or can the fly straight somehow with only one engine?
I'd have to imagine a twin engine plane like that is designed to be able to operate with only 1 engine, assuming the pilot is appropriately trained/skilled.
All single multi engine aircraft can fly perfectly fine with an engine loss. You have to be more careful and follow certain procedures but other than that the plane is going to fly. Airline pilots go through extensive training and have to go through re-current training to be essentially re-certified on the aircraft usually every six months or so. Part of that training is time in the simulator going through emergency procedures just like this.
Ever flown on a twin engine plane over the ocean? Those have an ETOPS (Extended range Twin Operation Performance Standards or better known as Engines Turn Or People Swim) rating that gives the number of minutes that it can fly from a suitable airfield in the event that it would lose an engine. For instance the 787 with the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engines have an ETOPS (as of earlier this week) of 130 minutes. So they can fly up to just over two hours from a suitable airfield and still be able to return on one engine.
This is the same question I've had in the past. If you tear the wing off of a housefly, it spins in circles. Why don't airplanes do the same thing with force being applied from only one side? It's okay to answer me like I'm an idiot.
Pilot that landed it was one of the first women to fly FA/18's. Apparently she is a real bad ass.
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-pilot-who-saved-that-southwest-flight-is-a-badass-1825341463
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-pilot-who-saved-that-southwest-flight-is-a-badass-1825341463
Typically the AC packs and the rest of the heavy environmental control system equipment is inside the wing-to-body fairing and then air is routed into the pressure vessel, up to the crown and distributed from there.
I have overseas flights in August, with seats located in the same vicinity as the one that was broken.... hmmm maybe I need to change seats more towards the rear since the rest is booked?
