Coker

[Al_4_State]

No one is jumping down your throat, you're entitled to your opinion.

I simply stated why I believe Davis will make the jump and easily take advantage of a lot of one on one coverage this fall - if you take a wait and see approach, I more than understand that.

I just trust my eyes and what I've heard about him in practice....thus, my only concern for the hawkeye offense this season will be QB - I feel pretty confident everywhere else on the offensive side of the ball.

We just agree to disagree, that's all.

Fair enough. I just thought the statements came off as "its a fact that Davis will make this leap" as opposed "it is my opinion that Davis will make this leap".

FWIW, I think Vandenberg might be better than Stanzi. I think Stanzi got a lot of credit for having a great supporting cast. From an outsider looking in, it doesn't seem Vandenberg will have the supporting cast in the passing game with the losses of Koulianos and Reisner (both of whom seemed to always be wide open), but just 2 years ago McNutt was an unproven position change so who knows what will happen. It takes a lot of stones to make your first career start in the 'Shoe and not wet the bed.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Fair enough. I just thought the statements came off as "its a fact that Davis will make this leap" as opposed "it is my opinion that Davis will make this leap".

FWIW, I think Vandenberg might be better than Stanzi. I think Stanzi got a lot of credit for having a great supporting cast. From an outsider looking in, it doesn't seem Vandenberg will have the supporting cast in the passing game with the losses of Koulianos and Reisner (both of whom seemed to always be wide open), but just 2 years ago McNutt was an unproven position change so who knows what will happen. It takes a lot of stones to make your first career start in the 'Shoe and not wet the bed.

I don't think Vandenberg in 11 will be better than Stanzi in 10. Say what you want about Stanzi but he was ******* good last year. He was in a QB friendly system but if you look at their losses, it wasn't because of him usually. He had 2 picks in those 5 games. He was efficient and took care of the ball while throwing 25 touchdowns. I hate to admit it as much as anyone but he had a great season and it's not like he was throwing to Ryan Broyles or something. DJk was a great reciever and McNutt is good but I think there are better tandems out there. If Vandenberg is better than him when we play them, we are in deep trouble I think.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

I don't think Vandenberg in 11 will be better than Stanzi in 10. Say what you want about Stanzi but he was ******* good last year. He was in a QB friendly system but if you look at their losses, it wasn't because of him usually. He had 2 picks in those 5 games. He was efficient and took care of the ball while throwing 25 touchdowns. I hate to admit it as much as anyone but he had a great season and it's not like he was throwing to Ryan Broyles or something. DJk was a great reciever and McNutt is good but I think there are better tandems out there. If Vandenberg is better than him when we play them, we are in deep trouble I think.

I've seen some pretty crazy things, but I highly doubt that is going to happen (not sayin you DO think that, I just do not).

 

[Tre4ISU]

I've seen some pretty crazy things, but I highly doubt that is going to happen (not sayin you DO think that, I just do not).

The very first thing I said in that post was that I didn't think he would be that good. I don't know how he could be. I don't think McNutt is going to be better. I don't think Davis will be better than DJK and you guys have one back. Your line will be good, but man, there are some places where there is potential to struggle.

 

[Al_4_State]

I don't think Vandenberg in 11 will be better than Stanzi in 10. Say what you want about Stanzi but he was ******* good last year. He was in a QB friendly system but if you look at their losses, it wasn't because of him usually. He had 2 picks in those 5 games. He was efficient and took care of the ball while throwing 25 touchdowns. I hate to admit it as much as anyone but he had a great season and it's not like he was throwing to Ryan Broyles or something. DJk was a great reciever and McNutt is good but I think there are better tandems out there. If Vandenberg is better than him when we play them, we are in deep trouble I think.

I don't think Vandenberg will be better in '11 than Stanzi in '10, not at least in the first few weeks. I think he has more potential though.

I didn't watch Iowa that closely outside of 3 games, but pretty much every highlight I saw had Stanzi hitting wide open receivers. I didn't see him have to make a difficult throw (again, outside of ISU, Minnesota, and the bowl game I only saw highlights). To his credit, he cut down on the stupid mistakes BIG TIME, and that's a big part of what got him to Sunday, but give most D1 QBs that line and those receivers, and they could probably put up those stats.

I don't think Stanzi is bad by any stretch, I just think he had it pretty easy. The only thing that ever held him back was himself. He never had to deal with porous lines, or receivers who couldn't get any separation/catch the ball.

A geat QB can take advantage of average talent around him (Tom Brady), a good one can take advantage of great talent around him (Ricky Stanzi). Stanzi is a good QB, not a great one. I think Vandenberg (unfortunately) has the potential to be great. Admittedly, this is based on his performance in a single game. Who knows if he'll be that.

 

[cycloneman003]

if im the hawks, WR is the least of my concerns in the passing games.... Im not sold that Vandenberg is the real deal. Last year he didnt get a chance to show much of anything (not his own fault at all), and as a freshman in the 3 games he got major PT he wasnt impressive. Im sure i'll get ripped for saying that and i understand that was as a freshman, and he did put up a valiant fight against OSU despite 3 int's, but was absolutely AWFUL against northwestern and minnesota. should be interesting to see what he can do for them, but im not sold at all yet.

....ISU has that big ol' question mark at QB too of course, but i cant imagine that Jantz/Tiller will be any less effective against iowa that AA was. not trying to knock AA, but against the hawks he was just miserable to watch all 3 times.

 

[tm3308]

Vandenberg's biggest weakness in '09 was recognizing and adjusting to the blitz. Minnesota and Northwestern blitzed him like crazy, and he stuggled mightily. OSU sat back, forcing him to beat them, which he nearly did. But when it came to crunch time, they realized they couldn't sit back in zone, or he WOULD beat them. So they blitzed, and he struggled again.

Now, it's foolish to assume that he hasn't worked on that since then. But, it's also foolish to assume that the work he's done will be enough. It's foolish to assume anything other than that there will likely be some growing pains along the way in his development this year.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

Vandenberg's biggest weakness in '09 was recognizing and adjusting to the blitz. Minnesota and Northwestern blitzed him like crazy, and he stuggled mightily. OSU sat back, forcing him to beat them, which he nearly did. But when it came to crunch time, they realized they couldn't sit back in zone, or he WOULD beat them. So they blitzed, and he struggled again.

Now, it's foolish to assume that he hasn't worked on that since then. But, it's also foolish to assume that the work he's done will be enough. It's foolish to assume anything other than that there will likely be some growing pains along the way in his development this year.

It's just foolish, don't ya think?

But in reality, I agree with you.

 

[nice8520]

Nice to read these all posts, Thanks for the information....

 

[Al_4_State]

if im the hawks, WR is the least of my concerns in the passing games.... Im not sold that Vandenberg is the real deal. Last year he didnt get a chance to show much of anything (not his own fault at all), and as a freshman in the 3 games he got major PT he wasnt impressive. Im sure i'll get ripped for saying that and i understand that was as a freshman, and he did put up a valiant fight against OSU despite 3 int's, but was absolutely AWFUL against northwestern and minnesota. should be interesting to see what he can do for them, but im not sold at all yet.

....ISU has that big ol' question mark at QB too of course, but i cant imagine that Jantz/Tiller will be any less effective against iowa that AA was. not trying to knock AA, but against the hawks he was just miserable to watch all 3 times.

I agree. I like AA and think most on this board consider him to be quite a bit worse than he actually was, but his performances against Iowa were awful, and in 2009 he was probably as close to being singlehandedly responsible for that loss as possible.

When it comes to the Iowa game in recent years, there's almost only one direction for the QB play to go.

 

[cycloneman003]

I agree. I like AA and think most on this board consider him to be quite a bit worse than he actually was, but his performances against Iowa were awful, and in 2009 he was probably as close to being singlehandedly responsible for that loss as possible.

When it comes to the Iowa game in recent years, there's almost only one direction for the QB play to go.

i agree with you a lot on that.. in the athlon sports college football preview there was a quote from an opposing big 12 assistant coach (they didnt say who) but it really described AA perfectly. this was the quote.. "I think they will be better without Austen Arnaud. They started to depend on him too much. I dont think he always went through his reads. He was tough as nails, and they believed in him. But they can be better without him."

 

[Al_4_State]

I think we can be better without Arnaud, but I don't know if we will this year. I do think in 2 or 3 years we will have better QB play than we've seen in years. I always want to improve. I hope we can do better than we did with Seneca Wallace and Sage Rosenfels too.

I don't feel like he held us back on the whole though. There were games were he hurt us (Iowa, Oklahoma) games where he helped us (Texas Tech, Texas) and games where he did some awful things to put us in a hole, but some great things to dig us out of it (Nebraska). I think we'll miss him at times next year, but there's certainly the potential to improve. He'll likely always be one of my favorite Cyclones.

 

[Tre4ISU]

If I'm ISU, I am blitzing hard until I'm down 21. Make Vandenberg make it happen.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

If I'm ISU, I am blitzing hard until I'm down 21. Make Vandenberg make it happen.

Ditto.

But knowing Iowa, we won't blitz.

 

[Aclone]

If we're simply discussing Coker, why is this in ISU football?

I think he's a good player. Very similar to their last big horse at RB. But I don't think he's playing for ISU...

 

[pigphd]

I'm a little late with this, but to say Coker struggled against a few B10 teams, I agree, he wasn't great, but since he missed the first 5 games of the year with a broken collarbone and had limited practice reps, I take the progression he made throughout the season as pretty darn good.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

my my my my my my my my my my my Coker Pace.

 

[heitclone]

Coker is solid, but his production is more about Iowa's system than his talent. I don't know why running backs never get the "system" label but it would definitely fit the Hawks running backs. I'm not badmouthing any of the back they've had the last few years, they have been good but Iowa's style of play lends itself to the RB putting up big numbers. Whoever they put back there is going to get lots carries behind a great oline and more than likely put up big numbers.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

Coker is solid, but his production is more about Iowa's system than his talent. I don't know why running backs never get the "system" label but it would definitely fit the Hawks running backs. I'm not badmouthing any of the back they've had the last few years, they have been good but Iowa's style of play lends itself to the RB putting up big numbers. Whoever they put back there is going to get lots carries behind a great oline and more than likely put up big numbers.

I think I have said in this very thread that you can plug a number of backs into the Iowa "system" and they will look better than advertised. But the better ones (Greene) take things to another level. We have high hopes that Coker will do that, but only time will tell.

Side-note, I think that is the exact reason I don't worry about our other backs being young and inexperienced.

 

[heitclone]

I think I have said in this very thread that you can plug a number of backs into the Iowa "system" and they will look better than advertised. But the better ones (Greene) take things to another level. We have high hopes that Coker will do that, but only time will tell.

Side-note, I think that is the exact reason I don't worry about our other backs being young and inexperienced.

It sure hasn't hurt you guys the last few years. Hopefully Coker gets time to reach his potential, unlike his 2 predecessors. It's pretty remarkable to think about the stability problems the Hawks have had at RB, and that there hasn't really been a dropoff in production. I see no reason why that will change any time soon.