Do you think non profitable college athletic programs should give out scholarships?

[Land Grant]

Fishing scholarships

As you wish ...

Colleges That Offer Fishing Scholarships - ScholarshipTalk.net

How did the Montevallo collegiate bass-fishing team win this number-one ranking nationally?

www.scholarshiptalk.net

 

[Antihawk240]

Intriguing question. Bear with me, it'll be long winded and may not actually answer your "business proposition" question.

I also ran track like @hurdleisu24 . I received nothing and got tired of losing so I started winning. Winning turned to money. I got lucky, so many of my teammates were not as fortunate as me financially but that did not stop them from representing our school each week. To say I ran harder than them because I got a scholarship is naive. That is part of your answer. Just because 1 sport isn't revenue generating doesnt mean that athlete does not compete just as hard in the field of play and represent (call it marketing if you will) their school.

2nd part. The 1st thing I immediately thought of was : curious what is your age is? I suspect you are less than 45. I remember the Jim Walden Era football. You can not tell me at all the Athletic Department was fiscally positive- if it was, football sure as heck wasn't positive. Should've Johnny Orr and Basketball say cut football spending? Should've any of the science and engineering revenue generated from national research go to a losing football player scholarship? No, that would be unheard of!

3rd part. I'm now a cattle farmer. I don't feed cattle soybeans- but I grow them. Most years I could make more money just growing corn. Yet I divide the acres into corn, soybeans and hay. Hay is a non revenue crop- but I have to have it for the good of the whole. Soybeans are grown for soil fertility so corn can be grown better, more efficient.

Long answer I get it, but the short answer is everything has a moving part and the moving parts together drive your machine. In this case, the machine is a business known as Iowa State.

 

[CRCy17]

I mean why do large corporations have philanthropic departments? Those are not revenue generating, get rid of them. Only focus on sales, that is where the money is!

 

[FriendlySpartan]

I mean why do large corporations have philanthropic departments? Those are not revenue generating, get rid of them. Only focus on sales, that is where the money is!

They have them for public relations and tax write offs, not a great comparison…

 

[CycloneErik]

I know this can be a question at some D3 schools that don't even do scholarships. The cost involved in transporting kids, equipment, insurance, etc. is significant, and you have many schools facing bugetary issues and having to cut staff/faculty. But as others have mentioned, it's hard to look at it as just a line items. Sports are one of few unifying aspects of a university. It also creates ties back to the school that have huge implications for donor support.

So I don't think it's as simple as just looking at the cost involved. But I can also understand frustration in seeing new athletic facilities go up while you can't afford to keep some of your staff/faculty.

Frustration is a major undersell there at the end. It's ******** if a college has to let faculty go in order to build athletic facilities. One of these is the main function of a college, and one is an athletic facility.

 

[VeloClone]

They have them for public relations and tax write offs, not a great comparison…

Tax write offs, maybe but the public relations part of it is right in the wheelhouse. Sports and especially sports that have a little success are public relations boons to schools. Think about the positive PR from the Iowa WBB team or the ISU WTen teams this last year.

 

[wxman1]

Huh? Maybe MBAs don't, but that's hardly even a real degree. You'll struggle to find PhDs who aren't getting at least a full scholarship for tuition.

There are some very good questions to ask about athletics and academic connections, but this isn't one.

TAKE IT BACK!!!

 

[CRCy17]

Tax write offs, maybe but the public relations part of it is right in the wheelhouse. Sports and especially sports that have a little success are public relations boons to schools. Think about the positive PR from the Iowa WBB team or the ISU WTen teams this last year.

Thank you, this was my intended point, that things don’t necessarily bring the $ directly, but are vital to the overall perception.

To compare to the OP, the relation I guess would be that these departments or in OP, sports should exist but, the people in them just be on volunteer or walk-in basis because they don’t bring in $ directly.

Both of those thoughts are ridiculous and the OP clearly doesn’t understand college sports as a whole.

 

[Kinch]

Federal government has some say on scholarships, particularly porportion for mens and women’s sports.

 

[Acylum]

Based on the people I see at Walmart, etc, it might not be a bad idea to be subsidizing physical activity.

 

[madguy30]

Based on the people I see at Walmart, etc, it might not be a bad idea to be subsidizing physical activity.

I visit my hometown in rural Iowa often (this isn't a state to state thing since WI is strong in the 'it is what it is' game) and talking to people about just walking regularly gets some looks.

 

[loyalson4evatru]

so far the most common answers seem to be:

because....it's the law we have to / Title IX - which explains some of it but not all of it

because...vibes

because....forms lasting deeper connections

because....creates a diverse culture

because....we want to compete with other Big 12 schools / banners

.......................

to clarify my original question, it was more focusing on why do they get scholarships over other students - and yes relating back to realignment and $ controlling everything..

why does our AD dept waste $ on scholarships for teams that other students would gladly fill their spots and instead spend more of the $ on stuff that gives back to the fans of the football and basketball teams generating 95% of the revenue?

how about lowering ticket prices? lower parking fees? lower concession prices?

this is the type of stuff I was considering with original question. i KNOW about Title IX and there's governing laws we have to follow. but that doesn't explain all of it or even half of it.

 

[Antihawk240]

so far the most common answers seem to be:

because....it's the law we have to / Title IX - which explains some of it but not all of it

because...vibes

because....forms lasting deeper connections

because....creates a diverse culture

because....we want to compete with other Big 12 schools / banners

.......................

to clarify my original question, it was more focusing on why do they get scholarships over other students - and yes relating back to realignment and $ controlling everything..

why does our AD dept waste $ on scholarships for teams that other students would gladly fill their spots and instead spend more of the $ on stuff that gives back to the fans of the football and basketball teams generating 95% of the revenue?

how about lowering ticket prices? lower parking fees? lower concession prices?

this is the type of stuff I was considering with original question. i KNOW about Title IX and there's governing laws we have to follow. but that doesn't explain all of it or even half of it.

Your second paragraph caught my attention when you used the word "waste." This expression leads to be believe you are either not actually reading our responses and you are dead set on your opinions and you are unchangeable.

So I go a different route. On the Cyclone Fanatic home page, 1st article. Iowa State Football just awarded walkon Ben Nikkel a scholarship. Awesome I am happy for him and happy for his achievement. I was once in his shoes and that day in my life is in the top 5 moments of my athletic career. Dont spin the words- I'm happy for him.

But by your thinking, Ben Nikkel deserves that allotment of money more than Edwin Kurgat, who was a 10 x All American in Track and Cross Country and a 2 x Iowa State Male Athlete of the year.

Obviously you are pro football and basketball and I am very confident you have no idea who Kurgat was or his event- so let me swing a bit closer. What about Cael Sanderson's scholarship?

 

[CRCy17]

to clarify my original question, it was more focusing on why do they get scholarships over other students - and yes relating back to realignment and $ controlling everything..

why does our AD dept waste $ on scholarships for teams that other students would gladly fill their spots and instead spend more of the $ on stuff that gives back to the fans of the football and basketball teams generating 95% of the revenue?

Did you know we already have opportunities for students to participate on a non scholarship level in nearly every DI sport we have, and then some? You are just advocating that all sports should be Club Sports if they don’t bring in money

 

[loyalson4evatru]

Your second paragraph caught my attention when you used the word "waste." This expression leads to be believe you are either not actually reading our responses and you are dead set on your opinions and you are unchangeable.

So I go a different route. On the Cyclone Fanatic home page, 1st article. Iowa State Football just awarded walkon Ben Nikkel a scholarship. Awesome I am happy for him and happy for his achievement. I was once in his shoes and that day in my life is in the top 5 moments of my athletic career. Dont spin the words- I'm happy for him.

But by your thinking, Ben Nikkel deserves that allotment of money more than Edwin Kurgat, who was a 10 x All American in Track and Cross Country and a 2 x Iowa State Male Athlete of the year.

Obviously you are pro football and basketball and I am very confident you have no idea who Kurgat was or his event- so let me swing a bit closer. What about Cael Sanderson's scholarship?

ok waste is wrong word choice - obviously a scholarship going to any student isn't a waste.

don't quite understand the snobness about saying I wouldn't know who Kurgat is. geesh strike a nerve with ya?

never said there should be zero scholarships to any other sports. once again people immediately go to the extremes with their straw arguments.

there is a balance somewhere between the $ aspect and the "supporting non profitable sports" aspect.

for Kurgat - amazing accomplishment in track and cc. this convo has nothing to do with downplaying success of any non profit sport athletes.

what about a chess player? dodgeball? pickleball? juggling? bowling?

should AD dept spend $ made from football/basketball on all those sports as well and give out scholarships while continuing to raise ticket prices for football/basketball/parking every year?

you aren't answering those questions. don't put words in my mouth and act like i'm saying olympic sport athletes have nothing to be proud of. not what i'm getting at whatsoever.

 

[Antihawk240]

@Loyalsons4EvaTru I again am intrigued with your age? Do you remember when Iowa State 10 years ago was a cup of coffee away from being in the American conference? Jamie Pollard worked his magic to keep the Big 12 together and Iowa State out of Conference USA. IF that day happened- our Athletic Department is a shell of itself and Biology, Agronomy, Engineering, Animal Science multimillion dollar research grants have to start subsidizing our athletic departments. So would you still be standing behind your words of "wasting" money?

 

[IcSyU]

should AD dept spend $ made from football/basketball on all those sports as well and give out scholarships while continuing to raise ticket prices for football/basketball/parking every year?

The adults in the room in case you're struggling with the reading comprehension on this are saying yes.

 

[VeloClone]

ok waste is wrong word choice - obviously a scholarship going to any student isn't a waste.

don't quite understand the snobness about saying I wouldn't know who Kurgat is. geesh strike a nerve with ya?

never said there should be zero scholarships to any other sports. once again people immediately go to the extremes with their straw arguments.

there is a balance somewhere between the $ aspect and the "supporting non profitable sports" aspect.

for Kurgat - amazing accomplishment in track and cc. this convo has nothing to do with downplaying success of any non profit sport athletes.

what about a chess player? dodgeball? pickleball? juggling? bowling?

should AD dept spend $ made from football/basketball on all those sports as well and give out scholarships while continuing to raise ticket prices for football/basketball/parking every year?

you aren't answering those questions. don't put words in my mouth and act like i'm saying olympic sport athletes have nothing to be proud of. not what i'm getting at whatsoever.

Those are not division 1 sports and are not supported by the Big 12 conference. They are only putting money into sports that are keeping us compliant with Big 12 minimums.

 

[VeloClone]

The adults in the room in case you're struggling with the reading comprehension on this are saying yes.

No, the sports loyalson is referring to here are the bowling, juggling, pickleball, etc. in the previous paragraph. I don't think anyone is suggesting club (or lower) sports should be financed by the AD.

 

[Antihawk240]

ok waste is wrong word choice - obviously a scholarship going to any student isn't a waste.

don't quite understand the snobness about saying I wouldn't know who Kurgat is. geesh strike a nerve with ya?

never said there should be zero scholarships to any other sports. once again people immediately go to the extremes with their straw arguments.

there is a balance somewhere between the $ aspect and the "supporting non profitable sports" aspect.

for Kurgat - amazing accomplishment in track and cc. this convo has nothing to do with downplaying success of any non profit sport athletes.

what about a chess player? dodgeball? pickleball? juggling? bowling?

should AD dept spend $ made from football/basketball on all those sports as well and give out scholarships while continuing to raise ticket prices for football/basketball/parking every year?

you aren't answering those questions. don't put words in my mouth and act like i'm saying olympic sport athletes have nothing to be proud of. not what i'm getting at whatsoever.

I hear you absolutely. I apologize if you think I am being snobness. I will stand behind my quote though that I dont think you knew who Kurgat was. Your OP colored you as a fan only interested in football and basketball. If I'm wrong then I eat crow and apologize.

Chess Player, Dodgeball, Pickleball, Juggling, Bowling? I can guarantee you Iowa State University as well as the Athletic Department have parameters in place to justify the distribution of scholarships. Whether it be $1000 or Full Ride. Coaches do not and can not hand out scholarships based on preferential treatment. Those parameters have been established by people far more intelligent than any of us. The same people that understand the mission and importance of the student life. They see the trickle down effect that none of us ever will. If that Chess Player meets those parameters and qualifies for a limited / partial / or full scholarship- that he absolutely gets it. It is all part of the whole.