Does the legacy of the "mayor" change after this?

[Muzzy]

Fred made certain comments concerning Iowa State.....that he should not have made then. Fred always said that Iowa State was his "dream job".

It wasn't evidently. Fred got what he wanted. We had a good run with Fred. But the reality is that our love for Fred is not reciprocated. Iowa State is NOT his dream job. His dream is NOT to win a National Championship for Iowa State. His dream is NOT to be at Iowa State forever.

What is on Fred is that he told us that we were all those things to him. That is what hurts. It is the comments he made that ISU was his dream job and his dream was to bring a national championship to ISU and that he would be content to stay at ISU forever. THAT is what hurts.

Peoples dream jobs can change. When I was young I wanted to be a farmer then a firefighter. Then I got a little older and wanted to be a professional football player. Then when I was a teenager I dreamed of being a pornstar.
Sadly I didn't become any of these.

 

[Twilight]

You all need to quit acting like Fred owes us a thing. His contract was specifically structured for this to happen. We all knew he wanted to do this. It may end up being a great thing if the clones have a great year and are able to keep recruiting. It'd be tougher if our head coach left after a great year and after losing our best players.

 

[AuH2O]

LE did have more success. But LE left our program in worse shape then what Fred is leaving.

True, but some of that is timing for both. LE had excellent talent coming in so his last year looked to be a low point in the talent cycle. Conversely, Fred is leaving with the most talented, most experienced roster. If he were leaving a year later it sure looks like there will be a dip. It does highlight what has made Fred so great. He has completely turned over his roster a few times and has maintained success.

 

[CyBobby]

I won't think of him the same anymore...

I have that sinking feeling that there are a lot of clone fans in this Boat...............

 

[Stormin]

True, but some of that is timing for both. LE had excellent talent coming in so his last year looked to be a low point in the talent cycle. Conversely, Fred is leaving with the most talented, most experienced roster. If he were leaving a year later it sure looks like there will be a dip. It does highlight what has made Fred so great. He has completely turned over his roster a few times and has maintained success.

Has recruiting suffered since Otz left?

 

[Judoka]

LE did have more success. But LE left our program in worse shape then what Fred is leaving.

The program is not in great shape with Hoiberg leaving. The cupboard is totally bare after next season and Fred is leaving before he made a long term impact on ISU's prestige. The new coach will be walking into a great situation for this coming season but a looming disaster after that. The next coach won't be able to pitch anything to a recruit that they wouldn't have been able to pitch if Hoiberg had never been here. Like I posted earlier, it is basically the same situation as when a mid major jumps up for a few years due to a coach, but then goes back to their baseline being unchanged when that coach moves on. Hoiberg gave us some good seasons but he did not change ISU Basketball's long term place in the order of things. He just affirmed us as not being top tier.

 

[Stormin]

The program is not in great shape with Hoiberg leaving. The cupboard is totally bare after next season and Fred is leaving before he made a long term impact on ISU's prestige. The new coach will be walking into a great situation for this coming season but a looming disaster after that. The next coach won't be able to pitch anything to a recruit that they wouldn't have been able to pitch if Hoiberg had never been here. Like I posted earlier, it is basically the same situation as when a mid major jumps up for a few years due to a coach, but then goes back to their baseline being unchanged when that coach moves on. Hoiberg gave us some good seasons but he did not change ISU Basketball's long term place in the order of things. He just affirmed us as not being top tier.

Sounds like you are saying that our recruiting suffered the last 2 years.......which coincides with Otzelberger leaving for Washington.

 

[clonedude]

The program is not in great shape with Hoiberg leaving. The cupboard is totally bare after next season and Fred is leaving before he made a long term impact on ISU's prestige. The new coach will be walking into a great situation for this coming season but a looming disaster after that. The next coach won't be able to pitch anything to a recruit that they wouldn't have been able to pitch if Hoiberg had never been here. Like I posted earlier, it is basically the same situation as when a mid major jumps up for a few years due to a coach, but then goes back to their baseline being unchanged when that coach moves on. Hoiberg gave us some good seasons but he did not change ISU Basketball's long term place in the order of things. He just affirmed us as not being top tier.

It's a pretty good situation, but not an ideal one IMO.

It's at least better to be loaded for one year than to not have anything at all. Hopefully the new coaching staff can parlay this season's success into landing some great recruits for next year.

We have next to nothing on our roster for young talent. But with the way of transfers and JUCOs, it's not really necessary to have a bunch of young talent ready in the wings to take over.

The more I think about the situation we're in, the more I do like the thought of TJ taking over though. If he is as good of a recruiter as everyone seems to think, then he is as good as anyone for this job because landing good recruits will be the MOST important thing IMO. Without talent you have nothing. I think Fran over in IC is probably a better X's and O's guy than Hoiberg is, but he hasn't had nearly the amount of talent to work with as Fred has. Recruiting is the number one priority.

 

[CycloneErik]

Someone who turned the program around for four pretty good years and left still doesn't scream "legacy" to me though.. That's been done. I personally hold that word in a much higher regard.

Actually, it's never been done. That's part of the legacy. No one achieved 4 years like Fred's before.

 

[roundball]

I think it does, and that's being as objective as I can about the whole thing...

If Fred leaves, he walks into a ready-to-win situation. If he loses, people immediately question his ability. If he gets a ring, there will be people saying "my dog could have coached that team to the Finals". He didn't build the program, or recruit any of those players. Maybe he even wins two Finals, back-to-back, but will anyone really care after that? Look at how much flack Spoelstra's getting for not being able to coach without the game's best player on his roster. NBA fans have very, very short memories...as far as his NBA legacy goes, unless he turns out to be the next Phil Jackson, he's probably just going to be another name on a very long list of unmemorable NBA coaches.

Now, regarding his legacy at Iowa State, it'll absolutely be changed...not just for what he's done in the past, but what he could have been if he'd stayed. He's walking away from what could be the best team Iowa State's ever fielded, and an opportunity to have gone from college basketball's cellar to one of its strongest programs in just a few years. If he sustains it into the future, there's no reason he couldn't become the next Jim Calhoun/Tom Izzo/Billy Donovan/Jim Boeheim/Bo Ryan. Guys like that are rightfully heralded as creating powerhouse programs from the ground up, and reaping the success over many years. That's a real challenge...building something from almost nothing, and watch it dominate the sport. Not many people can say they've done that, and nobody forgets the ones who do.

So yes, it definitely changes his legacy...especially what his legacy could be. He could bolt for the NBA, and assuming he's able to win a ring, get lumped in with the likes of Rick Carlisle and Erik Spolestra. Or he could stay at Iowa State, continue one of the most rapid turnarounds in history, turn the school he's loved since he was a young boy into a national power, and unquestionably join the ranks of college basketball's elite coaches.

 

[Yellow Snow]

Sounds like you are saying that our recruiting suffered the last 2 years.......which coincides with Otzelberger leaving for Washington.

It also coincides with Hoiberg being linked to every NBA job that came open the past two years.

Look... if Otz is the guy, i'm with him 100%. Heck, whoever it is i'm behind them 100%.

What I think Judoka is saying is that Hoiberg was what we were selling to recruits. His "NBA GM's on speed dial on his phone, his rolodex, etc." That gave us an advantage... the ISU brand as a "blue blood" has not been established yet.

We go back to Underwood, Otz, or any other coach that isn't Jeff H. we lose that advantage again and it sucks.

 

[im4cyclones]

It also coincides with Hoiberg being linked to every NBA job that came open the past two years.

Look... if Otz is the guy, i'm with him 100%. Heck, whoever it is i'm behind them 100%.

What I think Judoka is saying is that Hoiberg was what we were selling to recruits. His "NBA GM's on speed dial on his phone, his rolodex, etc." That gave us an advantage... the ISU brand as a "blue blood" has not been established yet.

We go back to Underwood, Otz, or any other coach that isn't Jeff H. we lose that advantage again and it sucks.

We were losing that advantage anyway because he wasn't putting anyone in the NBA. Monte will be his only. The effectiveness of that recruiting pitch was diminishing anyway.

 

[Wesley]

Right now, I am more interested in the legacy of Georges, Naz, Monte, Jameel, Abdul, Matt, Deonte, Hallice, and whoever else might stay Iowa State Cyclones.

Georges will almost end up being here longer than Fred.

 

[CTTB78]

It does for me if he leaves. I've always resented the many football/basketball coaches who used ISU as a spring board. In my mind, Hoiberg will be in the same group, and this from not only a former ISU grad but a Little Cyclone as well. Yes, he has the right to work where ever he wishes but the way he's leaving is diminishing what he has done for the program, day by uncertain day.

Yes, Fred does now join a long list of high divers. With his background I was hoping it would be different with him. The main downer for me is not that he is choosing the NBA, but the timing. If it's five years from now and Fred had taken us to the Final Four level, I would be bidding him good luck. I do disagree with those that say we would all do the same thing. Fred will go from a place where is making a good living and the fanbase loves him. He will now go to the 'pinnacle' of coaching where the fans will not give a crap who he is five years from now.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

The whole planning on leaving for two months interviewing for multiple jobs and not being able to give 100% recruiting thing bothers me a little bit.

But the big picture it doesn't effect his legacy much at all. It's a small sidenote to what he accomplished.

He had 4 years of sustained consistently good teams and turned it around quickly, even if the program never did anything historically special in the NCAA tourney.

He jumped off the ride halfway through imo, but what he did do was great and I'm appreciative, even if I am not stoked about the way he went out.

 

[Yellow Snow]

We were losing that advantage anyway because he wasn't putting anyone in the NBA. Monte will be his only. The effectiveness of that recruiting pitch was diminishing anyway.

I think the effectiveness of that pitch was more diminished by him constantly being the one who was looking at NBA jobs, not players thinking they can't get to the NBA through ISU.

Diallo and apparently Coffey appear to agree.

 

[ISUCY23]

I think it will change just slightly. Still admired by the people of Iowa but not like what it is now or could have been.

 

[Skyh13]

I'm not sure about other fanatics but I grew up watching Fred and following his career. I had his jersey and wore it all the time. Twitter is buzzing tonight and seems like there could be fall out to his legacy with the way this whole offseason has played out. I'm interested on how this will play out to the fans and how this affects the "mayor" status. I guess time heals all wounds but the initial reaction has been about what is expected.

People overreact.. it's just what humans do. As fans of ISU we all hate to see him go considering what the future of the program was looking like. But he did a hell of a job, and I think eventually the vast majority of people will get over it.

 

[FarminCy]

His accomplishments as a player will never be tarnished. However to me the overall image of "The Mayor" will definitely be changed for me. I will always view him as a coach that left things unfinished. And if the "gentlemans agreement" and everything else floating around is true than absolutely it will leave a bad taste.

I was a fan of Fred Hoiberg because he was a great player at ISU. I was a fan of CFH because he was building a great program as a coach at ISU. I'm a fan of Fred because of ISU. Once he leaves ISU i will still be a fan of ISU but I won't follow Fred at all. I'll still be a fan of his playing career and be thankful for him bringing ISU out of the McDoormat era, but he will be just another NBA coach I won't care about. I haven't followed the career of any coaches that have chosen to leave ISU and Fred will unfortunately fall in that category for me.

 

[Wesley]

Barnes from Texas is looking for a job my sources say....