ISU Football & Unrealistic Expectations

[trueclone2]

The Cyclones just came within a hair's breadth of upsetting the undefeated, 5th ranked college team in the nation, scoring 31 points on them and this team and its coaching staff is not worthy of your support? You have no rational way of assessing football teams.<br>
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Iowa State exists in a low population northern state and competes for in-state recruits with the University of Iowa (presently undefeated) and UNI (which is consistently a top team in its conference). Rhodes has no way of getting the same quality of recruits that the top teams do, but yet is fielding a team that has respectfully played through the toughest schedule in the nation - and the team is getting better every game. There is no coach in the nation that can magically cure our recruiting challenge, unless the NCAA starts allowing direct payment of recruits to join up. All you can ask is that they overachieve, which I think Rhodes has done in spades. This game showed the team can play serious football against bigger, faster and theoretically better players, exactly what is the task of any ISU coach. <br>
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Otherwise, what you are asking is for a coach to somehow woo top tier recruits to Iowa State, something that might happen once in a while, but is likely to not happen at all without a couple years of top ranking. We just almost beat the number 5 team in the nation (and for a couple of calls, we might have done so) with a team made up of leftover recruits (no offense to the players, who just showed what sort of real men they were) that have somehow been crafted and molded into a dangerous team that has the ability to beat top teams. (Perhaps not every week, but we are not in any way a sure-thing win for any team in the nation.) And that takes serious coaching to accomplish, an arguably much harder task than the coaching task of the coaches at the Top 25 schools, which have the cream of the crop of national players on their roster.<br>
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That we lost this game truly sucks, but I am so very proud of this team, (and of our coach), who fearlessly played smash mouth ball against an undefeated titan, at home, holding nothing back - and (maddeningly) came up short, a victim of some brilliantly executed single plays by our opponent down the stretch. (And a few strategic mistakes, by us in the end).<br>
<br>
If you can't see that objective reality, you might want to pick another team to root on, as things will likely not be easy for us anytime soon. I personally, am fine with that, and if we ever get to a higher level through our over achievement, and the upper tier recruits start seriously considering Iowa State, then we will see the path to the top made possible. (K-State)<br>
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As for Rhodes, I think he is doing a fantastic job, and I am proud to have him as our coach. You will get no better outcomes through a coaching change - only discontinuity. We are the underdog in many ways and that can't be fixed simply by an attitude change on the part of anyone, fans, coaches, or administration. We have a lot working against our success in a conference of mostly top tier teams. But I would rather play the best, being in the Big 12, but lose more and allow that experience to drive our excellence, than romp around playfully in something like CUSA, with a great win/loss record, rarely playing anyone truly excellent. And that is our real option if we want to rapidly change our win/loss ratio quickly. <br>
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If all you care about is wins, (and I know some have that attitude) than there are other teams you can be a fan of that do not have the challenges ISU has before them, that you would be more likely to be happy with. Complaining about coaching when we doing things like zeroing Oklahoma and almost beating Oklahoma State with scrappy select third tier, fourth tier and ju-co recruits, is stupid. Honestly, it is amazing we can stand up to any of these teams. But we do. <br>
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The path to winning and being in the top tier of teams is a very tough one, and not one that is likely to be achieved through a coaching change alone. It will take working hard using committed lower-rated players and getting them somehow to overachieve, until we can get enough respect to get the top national recruits to start coming to play for us, instead of the @50 other teams that have a history of top ranking. And a lot of that, Rhodes is accomplishing pretty well. <br>
<br>
Until we are considered a top-tier, our guys will be covering elites that run faster than they do (being elite sprinters), are bigger and stronger on the line (being elite linemen), and who are the hardest to tackle and cover (being elite backs) and will be picked apart sometimes by an elite quarterback. Sometimes, the mismatch at certain positions against a certain opponent will render a game next to unwinnable by any method. Welcome to reality - live with it. Those of us that recognize the growth of our team and our program don't have a losing attitude, we don't live in fantasy-land where we don't realize what it really takes to win regularly in this conference as an Iowa State. We simply realize that we are not there yet, and need to support the movement towards that end by not being fair-weather-only fans.[/QUOTE

Wow! My thoughts exactly. This team has a serious up side and is looking to be a VERY competitive team for the next couple of years. Something that one should be able to see. One that was put together by current coaches. Change in coaches as ALL should know leads to a usual drop off. Yes Rhoads 1st year was an exception.But I am talking usual. Look at Nebraska as an example. Look at the pete and repete of Kansas, Illinois, and many more constantly changing coaches constantly looking for better.

Did you know that Nebraska fans were once fed up with Tom Osborne and wanted him gone? Then he won and is now a legend. Rhoads made some mistakes with some of his staff but has also maned up to make the changes. I am also not saying he is going to be legend either but he is progressing the team. I am on board and looking forward to and Can't wait for Saturday. Screw basketball Football is still going.

 

[twojman]

It's not in any way that simple. Changes in programs that will take them to regularly ranked status take time and many changes. A "good coach" would not make our present players into a ranked team (and I am proud of them and their present level of effort). How good the Hawkeyes are this year remains to be seen, but this level of schedule success is not normative for them either.

We have challenges being in Iowa that the Texas teams do not have recruiting-wise. Although I would prefer more w's in the schedule thus far, the team is way better than it has been in previous years. Unfortunately, so is the conference.

Regardless of what coach was in place, they would have to deal with our recruiting challenges. While Urban Meyer might be able to pull a few upper level ones on the basis of who he is, in the end, we are going to likely have to work our way up quality-wise - and coaching changes do not necessarily lend themselves to that. I remember this kind of magic coach talk in this light about Chizek. How did that work out? (and the conference was not as highly ranked)

The last five minutes of the Oklahoma St. game showed some team and coaching weakness. So be it. Personally, I think our team played a fabulous game that should make us as fans proud. The coaching and play calling was great too, with a few exceptions. In the end, it was a couple stellar plays in the clutch by Oklahoma State that were executed so well, that they were close to undefendable, that won the game.

While I would have been much happier to send the Cowboys packing home with a loss, what I saw on the field wearing Cardinal and Gold was a team giving full effort, playing some great football - and I loved watching the game.

You are exactly the moral victory fan i am talking about. We need to root this attitude out of the fanbase ASAP. I highlighted a couple of the problems. Even with our great effort and moral victory you see the coaching weakness. This is no different then what we have seen over the years.

Remember Rhoads is the same guy that said Lanning probably should not have thrown the TD pass to Lazard vs. TCU. He also did not know what down it was yesterday on a potential game winning drive. When he admitted both of those things to to the public my Rhoads translator went off and it said, "I should be fired immediately for incompetence."

 

[CycloneErik]

Nebraska fans were upset that Osborne wasn't winning National Titles. They weren't frustrated that he failed to have winning seasons. That's a very nice false equivalency.

 

[GetAwesome]

The Cyclones just came within a hair's breadth of upsetting the undefeated, 5th ranked college team in the nation, scoring 31 points on them and this team and its coaching staff is not worthy of your support? You have no rational way of assessing football teams.

Iowa State exists in a low population northern state and competes for in-state recruits with the University of Iowa (presently undefeated) and UNI (which is consistently a top team in its conference). Rhodes has no way of getting the same quality of recruits that the top teams do, but yet is fielding a team that has respectfully played through the toughest schedule in the nation - and the team is getting better every game. There is no coach in the nation that can magically cure our recruiting challenge, unless the NCAA starts allowing direct payment of recruits to join up. All you can ask is that they overachieve, which I think Rhodes has done in spades. This game showed the team can play serious football against bigger, faster and theoretically better players, exactly what is the task of any ISU coach.

Otherwise, what you are asking is for a coach to somehow woo top tier recruits to Iowa State, something that might happen once in a while, but is likely to not happen at all without a couple years of top ranking. We just almost beat the number 5 team in the nation (and for a couple of calls, we might have done so) with a team made up of leftover recruits (no offense to the players, who just showed what sort of real men they were) that have somehow been crafted and molded into a dangerous team that has the ability to beat top teams. (Perhaps not every week, but we are not in any way a sure-thing win for any team in the nation.) And that takes serious coaching to accomplish, an arguably much harder task than the coaching task of the coaches at the Top 25 schools, which have the cream of the crop of national players on their roster.

That we lost this game truly sucks, but I am so very proud of this team, (and of our coach), who fearlessly played smash mouth ball against an undefeated titan, at home, holding nothing back - and (maddeningly) came up short, a victim of some brilliantly executed single plays by our opponent down the stretch. (And a few strategic mistakes, by us in the end).

If you can't see that objective reality, you might want to pick another team to root on, as things will likely not be easy for us anytime soon. I personally, am fine with that, and if we ever get to a higher level through our over achievement, and the upper tier recruits start seriously considering Iowa State, then we will see the path to the top made possible. (K-State)

As for Rhodes, I think he is doing a fantastic job, and I am proud to have him as our coach. You will get no better outcomes through a coaching change - only discontinuity. We are the underdog in many ways and that can't be fixed simply by an attitude change on the part of anyone, fans, coaches, or administration. We have a lot working against our success in a conference of mostly top tier teams. But I would rather play the best, being in the Big 12, but lose more and allow that experience to drive our excellence, than romp around playfully in something like CUSA, with a great win/loss record, rarely playing anyone truly excellent. And that is our real option if we want to rapidly change our win/loss ratio quickly.

If all you care about is wins, (and I know some have that attitude) than there are other teams you can be a fan of that do not have the challenges ISU has before them, that you would be more likely to be happy with. Complaining about coaching when we doing things like zeroing Oklahoma and almost beating Oklahoma State with scrappy select third tier, fourth tier and ju-co recruits, is stupid. Honestly, it is amazing we can stand up to any of these teams. But we do.

The path to winning and being in the top tier of teams is a very tough one, and not one that is likely to be achieved through a coaching change alone. It will take working hard using committed lower-rated players and getting them somehow to overachieve, until we can get enough respect to get the top national recruits to start coming to play for us, instead of the @50 other teams that have a history of top ranking. And a lot of that, Rhodes is accomplishing pretty well.

Until we are considered a top-tier, our guys will be covering elites that run faster than they do (being elite sprinters), are bigger and stronger on the line (being elite linemen), and who are the hardest to tackle and cover (being elite backs) and will be picked apart sometimes by an elite quarterback. Sometimes, the mismatch at certain positions against a certain opponent will render a game next to unwinnable by any method. Welcome to reality - live with it. Those of us that recognize the growth of our team and our program don't have a losing attitude, we don't live in fantasy-land where we don't realize what it really takes to win regularly in this conference as an Iowa State. We simply realize that we are not there yet, and need to support the movement towards that end by not being fair-weather-only fans.

Yep, he sure is. About as good at coaching and developing players as many are with spelling his name after 7 years of practice. No low-tier recruits will ever overachieve with Paul leading the way. Every senior night is a stark reminder of underdeveloped talent in our system. Our players have pride and heart, just sadly not a coaching staff that can give them a competitive advantage. Our student athletes deserve better results for their hard work put in.

 

[TOFB4ISU]

I predict ISU will lose both games remaining by a combined 9 points or less, and JP will announce Sunday he is still all in. I am fine with that.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Yes, the AD cares about winning, but he cares about money for his entire Athletic Department more than his football record. Since the fans keep coming, the money keeps flowing in. Further, Pollard is judged on the entire athletic department, not just the football record. Pollard has been VERY successful from a monetary perspective for ISU athletics. Would be highly surprised to see Pollard Fire Rhoads if they are competitive over the next few weeks. There is no reason to kill the golden goose regardless of the fact that our goose loses way too often. Our goose is still producing golden eggs. Decision made.

ISU football program is the goose laying golden eggs. Sums up our concept of success fairly well, doesn't it?

 

[SpokaneCY]

Mike Price/Mike Leach Washington State
Pat Fitzgerald Northwestern
Mike Riley/Dennis Erickson Oregon State
Jim Harbaugh/David Shaw Stanford
Joe Tiller Purdue
David Cutcliffe Duke
James Franklin Vanderbilt

....nope, can't be done

2 coaches at Boise State.
Montana football.
NDSU football.

Man there are WAY too many examples of it not working to count!

 

[cycloneworld]

Matt Rhule - Temple
Ken Niumataolo - Navy
Jeff Brohm - Western Kentucky
Doc Holiday - Marshall
Skip Holtz - LA Tech
Todd Monken - Southern Miss
Dino Barbers - Bowling Green
Matt Campbell - Toledo
Rod Carey - Northern Illinois
PJ Fleck - Western Michigan
Lance Leipold - Buffalo
Troy Calhoun - Air Force
Bryan Harsin - Boise State
Matt Wells - Utah State
Mike Bobo - Colorado State
Rocky Long - SDSU
Brian Polian - Nevada
Scott Satterfield - App State
Blake Anderson - Arkansas State
Willie Fritz - Georgia Southern
Tom Herman - Houston (Wont happen but you ask anyway)
Justin Fuente - Memphis (Wont happen but you ask anyway)

That took me 5 minutes and all of them are better options than CPR. And that's just D1-A and doesn't include assistants or D1-AA coaches. So can we please stop this "to many open jobs" ********

To all of the "no one wants this job" crowd, please identify which candidates on this list wouldn't consider the Iowa State job.

 

[Stormin]

Fire Kirk Ferentz.

 

[Cy$]

Fire Kirk Ferentz.

Paul has led Iowa State to BCS bowls before?

 

[cycloneworld]

Fire Kirk Ferentz.

You asked for a list of reasonable candidates and you got one. Now you are trying to deflect the discussion back to Kirk Ferentz with a terrible analogy? Come on man.

 

[Wesley]

You misinterpret my statement. I am a HUGE Pollard supporter and I do believe he cares about winning, but his overall responsibility is to drive the success in total of the entire athletic department. He needs money to do that. As long as the fan support continues he will not kill the golden losing goose. Further, I am not advocating fans to quit supporting the program to illicit change. Quite the contrary. I am trying to get many of our disgruntled fans here to realize they are fighting a losing battle to unseat Rhoads right now. We are on the same side here in that I don't believe our loyal fans will abandon the program right now.

The KU solution? You must buy season tickets to football if you want season tickets to bball?

 

[Stormin]

You asked for a list of reasonable candidates and you got one. Now you are trying to deflect the discussion back to Kirk Ferentz with a terrible analogy? Come on man.

Just showing that the knee jerk reactions of today look different later.

CPR has had a couple of bad years. ISU is actually better than our record shows. We don't have the wins. But things have changed in the last few weeks. Not really enthused about a lot of those guys on that list.

Some are decent though. Not sure where we stand with all the other jobs out there. Would you take the Minnesota job or Iowa State? Mizzou or Iowa State? Illinois or Iowa State? Indiana or Iowa State? Purdue or Iowa State? Colorado or Iowa State?

 

[BigJ4CY]

I'd just be happy with bowl eligibility. It would be a start. If Rhoads can't get us there it's time for new blood.

Agree. We need to start with returning to bowl eligibility, then go bowling in consecutive years. But why does it need to stop there? Any programs primary goal should be to win their conference? Will it happen here. I would love to see it at least once. We almost did it with the conference division, but unless we get greatly better on the field we probably won't see it with this format.

 

[twojman]

Fire Kirk Ferentz.

Your request for candidates was answered and this is your response. There are probably another 15-20 guys that are coordinators somewhere that would look at this job as well 1-AA coaches. Most of those coaches probably would be ok with Lanning throwing the 74 YD pass to Lazard vs. TCU as opposed to Rhoads. I would also guess that most of the coaches would have known it was third down against OSU.

 

[Stormin]

Your request for candidates was answered and this is your response. There are probably another 15-20 guys that are coordinators somewhere that would look at this job as well 1-AA coaches. Most of those coaches probably would be ok with Lanning throwing the 74 YD pass to Lazard vs. TCU as opposed to Rhoads. I would also guess that most of the coaches would have known it was third down against OSU.

No Coordinators. NO. No FCS Coaches. NO. I want a Head Coach at an FBS school.

Mark Mangino was the Offensive Coordinator for the TCU game. He had control. Mangino was the one who did not want Lanning.

Rhoads was not okay with that and the ensuing result was the firing of Mangino and inserting Lanning in the starting lineup at QB.

 

[CoKane]

Just showing that the knee jerk reactions of today look different later.

CPR has had a couple of bad years. ISU is actually better than our record shows. We don't have the wins. But things have changed in the last few weeks. Not really enthused about a lot of those guys on that list.

Some are decent though. Not sure where we stand with all the other jobs out there. Would you take the Minnesota job or Iowa State? Mizzou or Iowa State? Illinois or Iowa State? Indiana or Iowa State? Purdue or Iowa State? Colorado or Iowa State?

Do you really think we are a worse job than Illinois, Purdue, and Colorado?

 

[VeloClone]

The game is played on the field and not in the stands. The support was great. Leading 24-7, any reasonable fan base would expect to win. Rhoads lost again and he will be lucky to win next two on the roads.

Even the #2 team in the nation cannot expect that they will win when leading 24-7 -- even in the second half. I don't know why fans of a team with a losing record facing a top 10 should with the same lead in the first half.

http://www.cyclones.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=4653&DB_OEM_ID=10700&ATCLID=205335983

 

[Tornado man]

No Coordinators. NO. No FCS Coaches. NO. I want a Head Coach at an FBS school.

Good thing Pitt didn't follow this advice when they hired Narduzzi from Mich State. Or for that matter, when Wisconsin hired Alvarez from ND. Or Cincy when they hired Dantonio from Ohio State. Or Colo State when they hired McElwain from Alabama. Or...

 

[Stormin]

Good thing Pitt didn't follow this advice when they hired Narduzzi from Mich State. Or for that matter, when Wisconsin hired Alvarez from ND. Or Cincy when they hired Dantonio from Ohio State. Or Colo State when they hired McElwain from Alabama. Or...

Iowa State followed that advice with our last 2 coaches......Gene Chizik and CPR.

Give me a Brian Kelley or a Hayden Fry or a guy with head coaching experience. Another Coordinator Hire will not be good in selling hope to the fan base.