ISU Football & Unrealistic Expectations

cygrads

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2007
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At some point the record has to matter doesn't it? I know there's all kinds of ways to spin results and see "progress", but doesn't 3-9, 2-10, and 3-7 ultimately mean something? As for ISU being in a remote place that can't attract coaches and talent, I challenge any of you to take a field trip to Pullman, WA and study Washington State University. It is in the middle of nowhere, plays second fiddle to a dominant well funded University of Washington, plays in a very tough Pac 12 conference and somehow manages to win football games. Their fan base is nowhere near as loyal as ours. In the past 20 years, they have been to two Rose Bowls, numerous lesser bowls and last night went down to LA and took out UCLA. They field a dynamic offense and a pretty salty defense. They lost their opener to a FCS team but have improved each and every week and have the WINS to show for it. In our own conference we have the K State example. If a large enough portion of our fanbase is happy with what we are getting, I am afraid we are going to get more of it. But please stop with the can't be done here stuff, it's just not true.

And WSU has done that with multiple coaches - we just need to hire the right coach. Hopefully the ISU President will realize that the immediate dollars made in the here and now pale in respect to the dollars that the largest student population ISU has ever had will provide in the future if we can get them involved with Cyclone football as this is one of the ways alumni stay connected to ISU especially since they took away VEISHEA.
 

dualthreat

Well-Known Member
Oct 8, 2008
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It's NOT just K State. It wasn't just Bill Snyder that resurrected a bad program.

What about
Hayden Fry at Iowa?
Barry Alvarez at Wisconsin?
Gary Barnett at Northwestern?
Gary Pinkel at Missouri?
Les Miles at Oklahoma State?
Art Briles at Baylor?
Bobby Bowden at FSU?

Quit pretending like Snyder is some obscure outlier. A program (Iowa State)not having a quality coach since the '70's is the true outlier.
 

cygrads

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2007
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When we fill the stands for a loser, it tells the AD that we don't care about results and they have no incentive to initiate change.

Last night I told my wife I was thinking about not getting season tickets next year and she was shocked. We have been season ticket holders for 14 or 15 years and if CPR is back I will probably skip next year and I will hate it but I think we are to the point where that is the only way to be heard - I hope it doesn't come to that.
 

Rogue52

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Oct 20, 2006
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Pollard made a decision to give Rhoads $$$ over 10 years instead of $$$ over 4-5 years. It is a gamble that hasn't worked out. The bed was made and now we have to sleep in it for probably another 2 years (unless there is a turnaround or total turmoil in the locker room).

OR we stop buying season tickets. But there is a core of ~30,000 to ~40,000 of us that won't do that. And another 10,000 to 20,000 that like to tailgate and will show up for good weather.
 

XD40

Member
Nov 11, 2008
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The Cyclones just came within a hair's breadth of upsetting the undefeated, 5th ranked college team in the nation, scoring 31 points on them and this team and its coaching staff is not worthy of your support? You have no rational way of assessing football teams.

Iowa State exists in a low population northern state and competes for in-state recruits with the University of Iowa (presently undefeated) and UNI (which is consistently a top team in its conference). Rhodes has no way of getting the same quality of recruits that the top teams do, but yet is fielding a team that has respectfully played through the toughest schedule in the nation - and the team is getting better every game. There is no coach in the nation that can magically cure our recruiting challenge, unless the NCAA starts allowing direct payment of recruits to join up. All you can ask is that they overachieve, which I think Rhodes has done in spades. This game showed the team can play serious football against bigger, faster and theoretically better players, exactly what is the task of any ISU coach.

Otherwise, what you are asking is for a coach to somehow woo top tier recruits to Iowa State, something that might happen once in a while, but is likely to not happen at all without a couple years of top ranking. We just almost beat the number 5 team in the nation (and for a couple of calls, we might have done so) with a team made up of leftover recruits (no offense to the players, who just showed what sort of real men they were) that have somehow been crafted and molded into a dangerous team that has the ability to beat top teams. (Perhaps not every week, but we are not in any way a sure-thing win for any team in the nation.) And that takes serious coaching to accomplish, an arguably much harder task than the coaching task of the coaches at the Top 25 schools, which have the cream of the crop of national players on their roster.

That we lost this game truly sucks, but I am so very proud of this team, (and of our coach), who fearlessly played smash mouth ball against an undefeated titan, at home, holding nothing back - and (maddeningly) came up short, a victim of some brilliantly executed single plays by our opponent down the stretch. (And a few strategic mistakes, by us in the end).

If you can't see that objective reality, you might want to pick another team to root on, as things will likely not be easy for us anytime soon. I personally, am fine with that, and if we ever get to a higher level through our over achievement, and the upper tier recruits start seriously considering Iowa State, then we will see the path to the top made possible. (K-State)

As for Rhodes, I think he is doing a fantastic job, and I am proud to have him as our coach. You will get no better outcomes through a coaching change - only discontinuity. We are the underdog in many ways and that can't be fixed simply by an attitude change on the part of anyone, fans, coaches, or administration. We have a lot working against our success in a conference of mostly top tier teams. But I would rather play the best, being in the Big 12, but lose more and allow that experience to drive our excellence, than romp around playfully in something like CUSA, with a great win/loss record, rarely playing anyone truly excellent. And that is our real option if we want to rapidly change our win/loss ratio quickly.

If all you care about is wins, (and I know some have that attitude) than there are other teams you can be a fan of that do not have the challenges ISU has before them, that you would be more likely to be happy with. Complaining about coaching when we doing things like zeroing Oklahoma and almost beating Oklahoma State with scrappy select third tier, fourth tier and ju-co recruits, is stupid. Honestly, it is amazing we can stand up to any of these teams. But we do.

The path to winning and being in the top tier of teams is a very tough one, and not one that is likely to be achieved through a coaching change alone. It will take working hard using committed lower-rated players and getting them somehow to overachieve, until we can get enough respect to get the top national recruits to start coming to play for us, instead of the @50 other teams that have a history of top ranking. And a lot of that, Rhodes is accomplishing pretty well.

Until we are considered a top-tier, our guys will be covering elites that run faster than they do (being elite sprinters), are bigger and stronger on the line (being elite linemen), and who are the hardest to tackle and cover (being elite backs) and will be picked apart sometimes by an elite quarterback. Sometimes, the mismatch at certain positions against a certain opponent will render a game next to unwinnable by any method. Welcome to reality - live with it. Those of us that recognize the growth of our team and our program don't have a losing attitude, we don't live in fantasy-land where we don't realize what it really takes to win regularly in this conference as an Iowa State. We simply realize that we are not there yet, and need to support the movement towards that end by not being fair-weather-only fans.

This is exactly what is wrong with this fan base. Excuse after excuse from you. Loser mentality. It's ok we lost because we played hard.
Smh
 

cuphues

Active Member
Aug 5, 2011
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That presumes that the AD doesn't care about winning, which is complete ********.
Yes, the AD cares about winning, but he cares about money for his entire Athletic Department more than his football record. Since the fans keep coming, the money keeps flowing in. Further, Pollard is judged on the entire athletic department, not just the football record. Pollard has been VERY successful from a monetary perspective for ISU athletics. Would be highly surprised to see Pollard Fire Rhoads if they are competitive over the next few weeks. There is no reason to kill the golden goose regardless of the fact that our goose loses way too often. Our goose is still producing golden eggs. Decision made.
 

bawbie

Moderator
Staff member
Mar 17, 2006
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Cedar Rapids, IA
Yes, the AD cares about winning, but he cares about money for his entire Athletic Department more than his football record. Since the fans keep coming, the money keeps flowing in. Further, Pollard is judged on the entire athletic department, not just the football record. Pollard has been VERY successful from a monetary perspective for ISU athletics. Would be highly surprised to see Pollard Fire Rhoads if they are competitive over the next few weeks. There is no reason to kill the golden goose regardless of the fact that our goose loses way too often. Our goose is still producing golden eggs. Decision made.

The accusation that the AD cares more about money than wins is baseless and false. Because you disagree with someone's actions doesn't mean you need to assign them negative motives.

The loyal fan base is one of the biggest and best attributes ISU has going for it. Asking or demanding that ending is the wrong approach.
 

cuphues

Active Member
Aug 5, 2011
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Dallas
The accusation that the AD cares more about money than wins is baseless and false. Because you disagree with someone's actions doesn't mean you need to assign them negative motives.

The loyal fan base is one of the biggest and best attributes ISU has going for it. Asking or demanding that ending is the wrong approach.

You misinterpret my statement. I am a HUGE Pollard supporter and I do believe he cares about winning, but his overall responsibility is to drive the success in total of the entire athletic department. He needs money to do that. As long as the fan support continues he will not kill the golden losing goose. Further, I am not advocating fans to quit supporting the program to illicit change. Quite the contrary. I am trying to get many of our disgruntled fans here to realize they are fighting a losing battle to unseat Rhoads right now. We are on the same side here in that I don't believe our loyal fans will abandon the program right now.
 
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dmclone

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Oct 20, 2006
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Last night I told my wife I was thinking about not getting season tickets next year and she was shocked. We have been season ticket holders for 14 or 15 years and if CPR is back I will probably skip next year and I will hate it but I think we are to the point where that is the only way to be heard - I hope it doesn't come to that.

We were in a similar situation at the start of this year and I honestly thought I'd miss it more. It wasn't about sending a message for me, it was about cost/benefit analysis. The games were no longer fun and we were paying to tailgate.
 

norcalcy

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2010
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It's NOT just K State. It wasn't just Bill Snyder that resurrected a bad program.

What about
Hayden Fry at Iowa?
Barry Alvarez at Wisconsin?
Gary Barnett at Northwestern?
Gary Pinkel at Missouri?
Les Miles at Oklahoma State?
Art Briles at Baylor?
Bobby Bowden at FSU?

Quit pretending like Snyder is some obscure outlier. A program (Iowa State)not having a quality coach since the '70's is the true outlier.

Mike Price/Mike Leach Washington State
Pat Fitzgerald Northwestern
Mike Riley/Dennis Erickson Oregon State
Jim Harbaugh/David Shaw Stanford
Joe Tiller Purdue
David Cutcliffe Duke
James Franklin Vanderbilt

....nope, can't be done
 

CyForPresident

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2006
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We were in a similar situation at the start of this year and I honestly thought I'd miss it more. It wasn't about sending a message for me, it was about cost/benefit analysis. The games were no longer fun and we were paying to tailgate.

We dumped ours after 2013 and I couldn't be happier. I can watch multiple games all day long, drink my own beer, eat my own food, use my own bathroom, and save a ton of money. Once you learn that you can live without the gameday experience, there is almost no incentive to buy them again. We can buy super cheap secondary market tickets for any single game we might want to go to, which is extremely rare with such a ****** product on the field. The only reason we even consider to go to games now is to see friends and that's happened once in the last 2 years
 
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spinback32

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SuperFanatic T2
Mar 24, 2006
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Cedar Rapids
Yes, ISU fans have unrealistic expectations. No, this is not in basketball, I am talking about football. Why you say? Well let me explain.

We are not unrealistic in the way some fanbases are. We know 12-0 is not going to happen. We are unrealistic in an opposite way.

Many of my fellow ISU fans take any little shred of hope or moral victory and extrapolate that to 'turning the corner.' I think the Athletic Department knows that and feeds that with the pathetic shirts they used to put out and also the way Pollard was talking up the first half of the OU game on today's pregame show. So many of our fans just eat this crap up.

Why do many of us do this? We have had nothing to write home about regarding football. I know this is nothing to joke about but is this like battered wife syndrome? We keep getting promises of change or that it will get better and it never does. Every year there is a new excuse whether it is injuries, young guys or kicking players off.

If so many in our fanbase continue with this belief we will never be successful. Our fans and AD staff seem to have fear mentality with every decision. There are posters here who do not want a change because because 'who would want to coach here?' Well as has been rehashed several times good coaches have WANTED to coach here. We also hear that there are too many other openings, this is also loser talk. What about our recruits leaving? Who cares, we are not exactly a highly ranked recruiting class. But our schedule is so tough. Well it is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, if we continue to suck our schedule will always be tough. Get better and magically the schedule is not as tough.

There needs to be a wholesale change within the fanbase if we ever want to win. Let's take our basketball mentality and bring it to football. Our support is great, just not demanding enough on the win side for football.

Sadly I think after today's performance Rhoads will be back next year. These moral victories are just eaten up by many in our fanbase. Many almost beat their chest with pride saying how close we were with this tough schedule. This garbage needs to stop....

I know this has been rehashed to death, but I still can't wrap my head around this mentality. ISU football has proven it can win, not year after year, but ever since the Insight.com bowl year with Sage and co., this team has been to 8 bowl games, and within 1 game of a 9th. Plus, we were on the doorstep twice of winning the big 12 north. You'll have excuses like more bowl games and a bad big 12 north, but who cares? This just shows that no matter what, this school has the ability to compete.

When ESPN flashed up 8 wins over the last 3 years, that should make each and every one of you sick. There's no doubt in my mind, anyone on this board could coach ISU to 8 wins in 3 years. It's just plain pathetic. Paul is a great guy, and, on paper, was the perfect hire at the time. He is no longer the right coach here.

Other folks will point to his buyout being the reason he stays. Do you think the Soukup, Bergstrom, Jacobsen, and Reiman familys, among others, are happy with shelling out 10s of millions of dollars to watch this garbage? No, and I'm sure they are bending Jamie's ear every chance they get. We might not have the most profitable athletic department in the country, but CPR's buyout is just a cop-out excuse for anyone willing to use it.

For the first time in 3 years, we actually have some talent on this team, as we should next year (o-line depending), but our coaching staff, with literally a hundred years of experience; consistently puts guys in the wrong spot, call bad plays, and just flat out mismanage situations (3rd down call yesterday).

Iowa State will be a trendy school that is talked about a lot this winter with basketball, Jamie needs to use this time to get a qualified, exciting new head football coach to Ames.
 

benjay

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2006
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Last night I told my wife I was thinking about not getting season tickets next year and she was shocked. We have been season ticket holders for 14 or 15 years and if CPR is back I will probably skip next year and I will hate it but I think we are to the point where that is the only way to be heard - I hope it doesn't come to that.

You won't miss it much. Tailgating was the real draw and there are other options.
 

Cyhops

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2009
941
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Oak Island NC
At some point the record has to matter doesn't it? I know there's all kinds of ways to spin results and see "progress", but doesn't 3-9, 2-10, and 3-7 ultimately mean something? As for ISU being in a remote place that can't attract coaches and talent, I challenge any of you to take a field trip to Pullman, WA and study Washington State University. It is in the middle of nowhere, plays second fiddle to a dominant well funded University of Washington, plays in a very tough Pac 12 conference and somehow manages to win football games. Their fan base is nowhere near as loyal as ours. In the past 20 years, they have been to two Rose Bowls, numerous lesser bowls and last night went down to LA and took out UCLA. They field a dynamic offense and a pretty salty defense. They lost their opener to a FCS team but have improved each and every week and have the WINS to show for it. In our own conference we have the K State example. If a large enough portion of our fanbase is happy with what we are getting, I am afraid we are going to get more of it. But please stop with the can't be done here stuff, it's just not true.

Rhoads has a .370 winning %, Leach .400 at WSU. Not too far off. I am not sure if we should fire Rhoads or not but others have produced results after a long poor stretch of bad beginning. All I know is bend don't break doesn't work.
 

Stormin

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
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I know this has been rehashed to death, but I still can't wrap my head around this mentality. ISU football has proven it can win, not year after year, but ever since the Insight.com bowl year with Sage and co., this team has been to 8 bowl games, and within 1 game of a 9th. Plus, we were on the doorstep twice of winning the big 12 north. You'll have excuses like more bowl games and a bad big 12 north, but who cares? This just shows that no matter what, this school has the ability to compete.

When ESPN flashed up 8 wins over the last 3 years, that should make each and every one of you sick. There's no doubt in my mind, anyone on this board could coach ISU to 8 wins in 3 years. It's just plain pathetic. Paul is a great guy, and, on paper, was the perfect hire at the time. He is no longer the right coach here.

Other folks will point to his buyout being the reason he stays. Do you think the Soukup, Bergstrom, Jacobsen, and Reiman familys, among others, are happy with shelling out 10s of millions of dollars to watch this garbage? No, and I'm sure they are bending Jamie's ear every chance they get. We might not have the most profitable athletic department in the country, but CPR's buyout is just a cop-out excuse for anyone willing to use it.

For the first time in 3 years, we actually have some talent on this team, as we should next year (o-line depending), but our coaching staff, with literally a hundred years of experience; consistently puts guys in the wrong spot, call bad plays, and just flat out mismanage situations (3rd down call yesterday).

Iowa State will be a trendy school that is talked about a lot this winter with basketball, Jamie needs to use this time to get a qualified, exciting new head football coach to Ames.

Big 12 North Division. Does not exist anymore. Rhoads actually did pretty well when we had a Big 12 North Division.

Looking forward to the qualified exciting new head football coach at Iowa State. Who do you think it is?
 

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