Let's end some myths

[mikeiastat]

If a coach can recruit 5 Marcus Fizer's and do pretty darn well in conference, than he is certainly not a terrible coach by my definition.

I guess that is just how you define coach, and that is fine. I call that a recruiter. A good coach makes the players better. Mac does that, but another part that he is more than struggling at is retaining the right pieces to put a full team together. That's not his coaching ability. It may be he has other issues, but it's not the coaching, (as in coach as a verb)

 

[BigBake]

Things were not all roses under Wayne and there aren't that many myths:

robert Faulkner
Aaron Agnew
reggie George
Sean taggert
theo Davis

same crap different coach.

And he's selling satellite dishes cause no other school wanted him. That is no myth.

 

[Palmer]

Things were not all roses under Wayne and there aren't that many myths:

robert Faulkner
Aaron Agnew
reggie George
Sean taggert
theo Davis

same crap different coach.

And he's selling satellite dishes cause no other school wanted him. That is no myth.

will this site be arguing over who has the 'better' satellite place between Morgan and GMac in two years?

 

[Tre4ISU]

will this site be arguing over who has the 'better' satellite place between Morgan and GMac in two years?

No, that's no argument. Mac is taller and can set the dish higher giving me a better signal. Argument settled.

 

[cyclone3425]

And to go with those admittedly great wins, were some real stinkers. Look at 05-06. Losses to Iona, Fresno St., a terrible Tex tech, and Nebraska, all at home. That was the problem. There was no consistancy and the results were so unpredictable because they were not diseplined. It made for exciting wins, but some really terrible losses that weren't getting better.

Name me some Mac bad losses this year. Our worst losses this year are @ Colorado, @ Ok, and neutral court NW. Far cry from Iona, Fresno St. a TT team that wouldn't have sniffed the CBI if they expanded to 50 teams and home against Neb. Not saying we're where we want to be. Some upsets would be nice, yes, but the crazyness went both ways, and it showed a lack of structure. Consistancy and a few upsets are what build lasting foundations in the NCAA. If you want to be the flavor of the month then, pulling rabits out of your hat and players failing to meet NCAA requirements is great. But that gamble wasn't paying off either and it was ruining our longterm success.

I guess that those don't compare to these losses this year to a NW team that finished 7th in the Big 10, Tech who finished 16-14, OU who finished 13-17. And I dont know if you remember but that Iona team went to the NCAA tournament, and Tech had Jarius Jackson and Martin Zeno.

But lets not forget about last year where we lost to Hawaii, Drake (Morgan never lost to them and McDermott is 1-3), Iowa, South Dakota State, Nebraska, Colorado.

So what consistency does this team have? Consistently blowing games at the end? Consistently having terrible guard play? Losing to most of the terrible teams in the Big 12, but then beating Kstate on the road, consistent? Consistently losing home games (2-6 at home in the conference)?

 

[BigBake]

The failings of Wayne as a coach in no way are changed or lessened by Macs failure to this point.

 

[BigBake]

No, that's no argument. Mac is taller and can set the dish higher giving me a better signal. Argument settled.

Morgan could buy a sweet ladder with the coin we sent him packing with. Just saying

 

[Ficklone02]

The failings of Wayne as a coach in no way are changed or lessened by Macs failure to this point.

Nope, but he did have some success. I'll bet he's sort of enjoying all of this brouhaha since he left.

 

[CloneIce]

Not that bad. Fully capable of winning against top 25 tallent and often losing against teams that aren't even in the top half of all the NCAA Div 1 teams? Not that inconsistant. Are you high? Not to mention that the losses came late in the season and the wins came all over the place doesn't exactly scream growth and progress.

First off.... does a 7-game Big 12 winning streak that included 4 ranked teams and 3 road wins scream growth and progress? That team had a 6-man rotation that included 2 freshman and couldn't shoot the three to save their life... but you don't think they showed "growth and progress" even though they went 9-2 in their last 11 Big 12 games? 'Nuff said about that ridiculous statement. On to the next one.

Well....Xavier was 10-6 in the A10 and won 17 games. That is not a terrible loss on the road, I am sorry to say. A terrible loss would be.... I don't know, South Dakota State at home?

2004-05 NCAA College Basketball Standings - ESPN

Nebraska was 7-9 in the Big 12. Again, that is not a terrible loss as you would indicate. The Colorado loss did suck and I still can't stand the sight of Andy Osborn to this day.

But hey, the team rebounded and that was still easily our best year since Tinsley was here, so I can't help but shake my head and laugh at your contention that Wayne was a terrible coach because he had a couple bad losses during the best freaking season ISU has had in 9 years! :no:

 

[Tre4ISU]

Morgan could buy a sweet ladder with the coin we sent him packing with. Just saying

Mac can buy the same ladder and still reach higher. You cannot buy natural height.

 

[CloneIce]

I guess that is just how you define coach, and that is fine. I call that a recruiter. A good coach makes the players better. Mac does that, but another part that he is more than struggling at is retaining the right pieces to put a full team together. That's not his coaching ability. It may be he has other issues, but it's not the coaching, (as in coach as a verb)

Are you serious? Not this season. He didn't coach well this year. The ISU MBB team this year was not greater than the sum of their parts. Poor shot selection and boneheaded plays were the norm.

Mac has coached very well in the past, but this year's team did not perform like a well-coached team.

 

[cyclone3425]

Not that bad. Fully capable of winning against top 25 tallent and often losing against teams that aren't even in the top half of all the NCAA Div 1 teams? Not that inconsistant. Are you high? Not to mention that the losses came late in the season and the wins came all over the place doesn't exactly scream growth and progress.

Now it might be a coincidence that we won the last game of the year, and kept it very close against some of the best teams in the country late in the season, but at least it gives some evidence towards progress being made throughout the year. And the point remains we competed at a very high level this year seem to be working hard to build a consistant foundation, even with the defections. We beat the teams we were supposed to and only once got over the hump to beat someone that we weren't. But we didn't look like fools against anyone all year long.

I don't think we have lost at home to anyone that won't be in the top half of the bracket. and even our 3 worst losses, all on the road or neutral court, are not very bad at all. Each were in the top 1/3 of the NCAA easily/and or stand a chance of playing in the post season.

So it doesn't bother you that the only teams we were supposed to beat this year were 2 in the Big 12 (not counting the Kstate game). So if I understand this right, you do think that we were the 11th best team in the Big 12 and that we didn't lose any games that we shouldn't have. So basically your saying that you are alright with our record and that we just weren't good enough to win more than 4 games in the conference.

So how many wins are we going to win next year? If you think this team didn't lose any games it shouldn't have, take away our two "pros" and tell me how many we should win?

 

[CloneIce]

The failings of Wayne as a coach in no way are changed or lessened by Macs failure to this point.

No. Unfortunateley, Mac's failures magnify Wayne's successes though.

The biggest question is this..... why is failure and success for Wayne defined so much differently than it is for Mac?

Wayne's biggest failure (Season 3) is still better than any of Mac's 4 years.

 

[CyBobby]

Here's one for ya...Wayne Morgan won more ncaa tourney games in one year than mcdermott has in his whole career!!!!


btw Will Blaylock wasnt all that bad at point guard....good enough for him and Stinson to beat KU inside Allen Fieldhouse!!!


Boy do I ever miss those days!!!!

 

[mikeiastat]

I guess that those don't compare to these losses this year to a NW team that finished 7th in the Big 10, Tech who finished 16-14, OU who finished 13-17. And I dont know if you remember but that Iona team went to the NCAA tournament, and Tech had Jarius Jackson and Martin Zeno.

3 road losses that don't make us look silly. and no they do not compare. Not even that close. NW was playing well and basically in their back yard. 3 stumbles. Not a good loss, but far from TT at home back then. TT wasn't even in the top half of the NCAA that year. That was flat out falling ono our face. Iona, was not that good either. Makeing the NCAA is great, but I'm prety sure they were an automatic qualifier for winning a terrible conference. A welfare bid doesn't make them a good team. Head to head ranked lower than NW, who was our worst lost this year.


But lets not forget about last year where we lost to Hawaii, Drake (Morgan never lost to them and McDermott is 1-3), Iowa, South Dakota State, Nebraska, Colorado.

Those may have been worse losses, I'll have to look at it, but the fact remains that he is eliminating those ND st, type losses. And at least the conf losses were on the road, weren't they. Just going off the top of my head, too, in that span wasn't Drake a 2 seed in the tourny one of those years. Its not in a vaccuum. But I say again, things are improving unlike then.


So what consistency does this team have? Consistently blowing games at the end? Consistently having terrible guard play? Losing to most of the terrible teams in the Big 12, but then beating Kstate on the road, consistent? Consistently losing home games (2-6 at home in the conference)?

Consistantly competing to the last min against top 30 teams, all year and not looking foolish against absolutely terrible competition. Its called a foundation. That Some coaches never had, and the program didn't have when he started.

 

[CloneIce]

Consistantly competing to the last min against top 30 teams, all year and not looking foolish against absolutely terrible competition. Its called a foundation. That Some coaches never had, and the program didn't have when he started.

So after 4 years, we can proudly point to the fact that we lost alot of close games and didn't look foolish against terrible competition? Wow, thats depressing.

I prefer when we actually beat them, especially at home (the guy you reference as a bad coach beat 2 or more ranked teams at home in each year of his tenure at ISU). I always thought the goal was to win games and beat good teams, not to avoid bad losses.

You are right though, most coaches don't have that foundation that you described, as most get canned if that is all they can point to for 4 years.

 

[cyclone3425]

LOL, yea, you guys are really interested in thoughtful discussion while you throw around terms like "hater" and "lover".

I don't recall anyone ever saying WM was a great coach. In fact, he was fired twice. For those that wonder why he isn't coaching, probably should ask him.

All I know are the facts of the situation:

- He was fired twice from HC jobs.
- He has a child with special needs.
- He is a lot older than you might think.
- He was probably set for life with his contract/buyout.

Maybe he simply didn't pursue other jobs.

In the end, wtf does it really matter? Guy was an assistant coach that landed a great job in a difficult mess. He did the best he could (which wasn't too shabby) and got canned when the new hotshot came to town.

Now, despite giving what he could to ISU to the best of his ability, instead of getting any respect as someone that probably loved ISU, he is routinely trashed by a bunch of immature posters that have no agenda other than to perversely think trashing the prior coach or the history of our program somehow excuses the current lack of results.

And as I noted, it is not as if other BCS programs are beating down our door to hire our CURRENT coach, so what does that prove?

I am so happy someone finally said this, reading these posts bothered me because they are bashing a guy for being a family man and being there for his son. Plus people that are bashing him for not getting another job, don't realize that a 60 year old head coach is not a hot commodity in the coaching game. Programs want the new up and coming coach, not a 60 year old.

Why don't we leave this guy alone. He hasn't coached at ISU for 4 years and people are still ripping on him. He is trying to enjoy his life outside of basketball. I completely think he got a raw deal here, and it bothers me every time I watch this team with lack our good guards play basketball.

I want to know how many people that are bashing Morgan for his lack of "consistency," believe he really should have been fired after 3 years and McDermott shouldn't after 4. Also, do you think that McDermott would stand a chance of keeping his job if he were our football coach, or if we got a new AD (just like when Morgan was fired), or if we had the money to pay him out.

 

[CloneIce]

Consistantly competing to the last min against top 30 teams, all year and not looking foolish against absolutely terrible competition. Its called a foundation. That Some coaches never had, and the program didn't have when he started.

"Those may have been worse losses, I'll have to look at it, but the fact remains that he is eliminating those ND st, type losses. And at least the conf losses were on the road, weren't they. Just going off the top of my head, too, in that span wasn't Drake a 2 seed in the tourny one of those years. Its not in a vaccuum. But I say again, things are improving unlike then."


What? We were 2-6 at home in conference this year.... we lost 7 games at home, the most since the 70's! I think you are confused.

Also Drake was a 5 seed that year. The other two years (when we lost to them at home) they did not make the tourney.

 

[HILLCYD]

Myth 173: His satellite dishes are round and not oval.

 

[cyclone3425]

Consistantly competing to the last min against top 30 teams, all year and not looking foolish against absolutely terrible competition. Its called a foundation. That Some coaches never had, and the program didn't have when he started.

So how many years does he get? We have arguably the worst 1-2 guards in the Big 12 (I say one of the worst in BCS conferences), and is next year going to get better? And how is a foundation being set when we lose more players on McDermott's teams than any other coach. Everyone calls that bad luck? How many BCS teams have lost their best player to another team and had no clue it was happen? How many teams lose a guy in the middle of the season and had no clue?