Let's end some myths

[bawbie]

How is it similar? The death penalty is the NCAA forcing the cancellation of an entire season due to multiple major rules violations over a several year time span and losing many scholarships. At worst, ISU was guilty of a couple of minor rules infractions and was at risk of losing one or two scholarships due to academic issues.

Yeah, the death penalty and what ISU was facing really sounds similar to me... :skeptical:

What is really clear is you and whoever originally made this argument that you are referencing clearly do not know what the death penalty is.

The (valid in my mind) comparison is that coming out of a death penalty situation you have very few (or no) returning players, especially any with experience. The situation 4 years ago was somewhat similar in that we had very few players returning, especially with any experience.

and that there was very little room for error on the academics side, so fewer chances could be taken, much like a team coming off a death penalty situation.

 

[khaal53]

I never made the argument. I'm still not. I hear Walters and Mac talk about it on the call-in show, but that's about it. It's clear that ISU was nowhere near the death penalty itself.

I said it was similar-read that again-with the number of scholarship players, that's it.

 

[mcblogerson]

I was never against Wayne as a coach. He was a very good recruiter, played a somewhat undisciplined looking 2-3 zone.

My argument is, if he was a quality coach, then why isn't he doing it now, instead of selling cable or something?

 

[Tornado man]

I thought the big problem ISU faced before hiring GMac was their absolutely abysmal graduation rates and the increasing penalties the NCAA began placing on those teams (especially a team like ISU that was graduating under 20% for three years in a row).

Has our graduation rate increased under Gmac? I understand the APR data is delayed by several years, but just asking.
For example, will Gilstrap graduate? Did Lucca? Will Brackins? Dendy? Garrett?

 

[CYdTracked]

I still don't miss Morgan, I hated the way his teams played. I'm not going to go into lengthy detail of my reasons because I have done that many times here but my main fact to support why he was not a good coach is that he's now selling DirecTV vs coaching. If he had the passion to be a coach he would be right now and if he wasn't as bad as you all claim he wasn't he would have moved onto another D1 coaching job.

Lack of passion pretty much sums up his coaching and he showed that by sitting on the bench with that blank stare while his players were playing out of control and losing winable games. Why would I want to continue to have a guy that had no passion to get out of Ames and find another job after he was fired? That says a lot, I know people will say he's happy doing what he does and that's great but if that is the case then he obviously was not meant to be our head coach else he wouldn't have given up on coaching so easily. I would have loved to have seen what LE would have done with that set of players Morgan recruited because I think we would be a completely different situation right now had he been given the chance.

 

[CycloneWarning]

I was never against Wayne as a coach. He was a very good recruiter, played a somewhat undisciplined looking 2-3 zone.

My argument is, if he was a quality coach, then why isn't he doing it now, instead of selling cable or something?

I would agree that Wayne Morgan's ability to land a D1 BCS job today as a MBB coach is about on par with Greg McDermott's ability to be pursued by a D1 BCS school.

 

[cyeah]

One rather big question in all of this that seems missed.

IF Morgan is such an outstanding D1 Men's Basketball coach, who can win games, coach offense and defense and lead teams as well as recruit floor leaders WHY HAS NO OTHER SCHOOL HIRED HIM?

Now I am sure he is thrilled to be installing sat tv systems and has likely turned down many D1 head coaching jobs, but I would think a coach of such high quality (especially an African American one given today's pressures on ADs for diversity) would be high on many AD's listsand by now one of those ADs would have put together a package for Morgan that would draw him off that ladder and back onto the court.

It seems to me maybe the 300 or so ADs with D1 bball programs are all a bunch of haters or maybe, just maybe Morgan is not as great of a coach as you think.

 

[cygrads]

I was never against Wayne as a coach. He was a very good recruiter, played a somewhat undisciplined looking 2-3 zone.

My argument is, if he was a quality coach, then why isn't he doing it now, instead of selling cable or something?

Per wiki - Morgan continues to reside in Ames, Iowa and is owner of Mid-Iowa Satellite, a company that sells satellite television, internet and telephone services

If Wayne was such a great coach why is he not doing just that - or maybe he makes the same amount of money in his current business :mask: I don't know.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Per wiki - Morgan continues to reside in Ames, Iowa and is owner of Mid-Iowa Satellite, a company that sells satellite television, internet and telephone services

If Wayne was such a great coach why is he not doing just that - or maybe he makes the same amount of money in his current business :mask: I don't know.

I thought someone brought up last week that his satellite company went out of business...

 

[Clone9]

I'd really like to hear a Morgan lover's response to the job situation. Why hasn't he gotten another job? If Pollard was such an idiot for firing him, why hasn't someone else snatched him up?

For the record, I'm not a Morgan hater.....but I do think its a legit question.

 

[CYdTracked]

I would agree that Wayne Morgan's ability to land a D1 BCS job today as a MBB coach is about on par with Greg McDermott's ability to be pursued by a D1 BCS school.

Maybe not a BCS at the moment but I would bet you GMac could land a much better job than Morgan could based on his track record at UNI. Morgan's track record at Long Beach State isn't much to brag about either: Wayne Morgan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 2 winnings seasons and 1 NIT appearance in 6 seasons there. McDermott's records pre-ISU were pretty good: Greg McDermott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which is why I wouldn't hesistate to say the if a school were looking at both Wayne and Greg they'd take Greg even with his shaky seasons at ISU to factor in. Wayne was 55-39 at ISU but also had a losing 22-26 conference record and I'd probably give his teams the nod as far as talent goes too because 1 thing Greg has probably learned by now is you need good guard play in the Big 12 and Morgan had 2 of the better ones in the conference at that time.

Obviously ever since the LE mess ISU BB has been in a tough spot it still hasn't recovered from. But I still point to the passion factor that Wayne just gave up on coaching again after he got fired and I would bet Greg would not be out of a job for long if he were to get fired. Why would you want to have a coach here that just rolls over and gives up on coaching that easily like Wayne did after he got fired? He would not be selling dish TV today if he had the passion to coach at a high level again because he would have found some kind of coaching job if he did.

 

[isuno1fan]

I'd really like to hear a Morgan lover's response to the job situation. Why hasn't he gotten another job? If Pollard was such an idiot for firing him, why hasn't someone else snatched him up?

For the record, I'm not a Morgan hater.....but I do think its a legit question.

They'll tell you because he just built a handicapped accessible house for his kid. Like Ames is the only place in the world where one of these can be found.

Wayne Morgan was the best!

 

[mikeiastat]

Please quit bringing up morgan's current situation. I agree with the choice that was made, but I like Morgan and hope he can find his passion. If he's happy being a business owner good for him. I know it's a valid point, but We're well aware he isn't working in B-ball these days. I would love to see him back under mac to be a recruiter. (prolly not happinin) He also had some players that were pretty tough, I don't know if he coached that into them during practice or just had an eye for it.

Lets not forget he was thrust upon a pretty bad situation himself and he deserves our respect too. Just had 1 bad idea, some questionable ones, and in the end wasn't working out. He answere the call and wasn't perfection, but what he did to rescue the program is admirable. He stepped in when a lot of people wouldn't. I like the guy I really do.

I thinkk the trigger was pulled a little too early, but I just don't agee that there wasn't just cause. We needed a different plan.

 

[cyclones500]

Just because McDermott hasn't worked out here (to this point) means that it was an absolute mistake to get rid of Morgan. Which is an absolute fallacy - just because McDermott followed Morgan has absolutely no bearing on whether it was the wrong decision to fire Morgan. But yet most Morgan defenders want to link the two together - "McDermott's been an absolute failure - we never should never have fired Morgan!" They are two independent arguments, yet people continue to argue as if they're related.

I agree. And let's make it clear, I'm extremely frustrated about the current situation (p**ed off might be more like it) but the "should've kept Morgan" argument starting bubbling to the surface within 2 seasons. It's a natural reaction — we had something that was good but not as good as we wanted, so we made a change, and it's worse, so it shows it was a mistake from the outset.

There is, I'm sure, a certain slice of the fan base that believed Wayne was the right guy and that GM was a horrible choice as a successor (or vice-versa). But the hindsight argument is a cop-out, because (1) there was no reason to predict GM would do so poorly and (2) it's impossible to know what WM would have accomplished over the last 4 seasons. People could argue, "It wouldn't have been any worse" but remember, this would be Year 7 for Wayne, so things ought to have been really good by this point, not just "better than mediocre."

 

[CloneIce]

What???...Morgan was an offensive minded coach.

Uhhh, apparently you missed 2005. We won almost solely because of our excellent trapping zone defense. It was a thing of beauty that season.

 

[CYdTracked]

Please quit, bringing up morgan current situation. I agree with the choice that was made, but I like Morgan and hope he can find his passion. We're well aware he isn't working in B-ball these days, but I would love to see him back under mac to be a recruiter. He also had some players that were pretty tough, I don't know if he coached that into them during practice or just had an eye for it.

Lets not forget he was thrust upon a pretty bad situation himself and he deserves our respect too. Just had 1 bad idea and wasn't working out. But he stepped in when a lof of people wouldn't. I like the guy I really do. I just don't disagree that we needed a different plan.

I think Morgan's current situation is fair game considering everyone wants to throw our current coach under the bus and use Wayne as the main comparison. I'd be perfectly fine having him as an assistant and recruiting and I think that is where he belongs on any BCS coaching staff right now but not as a head coach but its a pipe dream to think he'd come back as an assistant at a school that fired him. I think Wayne as a person was a great guy but Wayne as the coach was something I didn't think was very good.

 

[CloneIce]

I'd really like to hear a Morgan lover's response to the job situation. Why hasn't he gotten another job? If Pollard was such an idiot for firing him, why hasn't someone else snatched him up?

For the record, I'm not a Morgan hater.....but I do think its a legit question.

Its a question that has no bearing whatsoever on an evaulation of his job performance as ISU head men's basketball coach.

Nobody knows for sure except Wayne.... if I had to guess, getting paid 2 million to do nothing probably has a lot to do with the fact that he didn't jump right back into coaching.

 

[nickwc]

myth: wayne's zone defense tried to guard the 3 point shooters.

 

[mwitt]

Uhhh, apparently you missed 2005. We won almost solely because of our excellent trapping zone defense. It was a thing of beauty that season.

It worked well when you have a big that is fast enough to rotate in the paint. When you don't, 2005-2006 happens, and Maric scores 40 in your house.

 

[CloneIce]

Morgan wasn't a great coach but he was a decent one. His teams performed well in good games against tough teams.

For reference - Morgan's teams beat at least 2 ranked teams at Hilton each of his 3 years. He also beat #2 KU and #20 Texas on the road in 2005.