NOTEBOOK: The "chop block" on Jevohn Miller, the fake punt and more

[klamath632]

What the **** are you guys talking about? The guy lined up in the backfield, and he cut Miller at the knee. Miller, unfortunately, was planted on that leg at the time, so I'm pretty sure his ACL/MCL are gone.

Whether it was legal or not, it was one of the dirtiest plays I've seen.

Edit: now after reviewing the rule, I'm not sure if it was illegal. Either way, it was still dirty. The block did not come from the front, so it was legal only if it happened within seven yards of the center, and five yards or less downfield. I need to review the video, because I believe it was close to being more than 7 yards away from the center.

ARTICLE 6. a. Team A prior to a change of team possession: Consider a low-blocking zone seven yards on each side of the snapper extending five yards beyond the neutral zone and back to Team A’s end line (Rule 2-3-7 and Appendix D).
1. The following Team A players may legally block below the waist inside this zone until the ball has left the zone: (a) players on the line of scrimmage completely within this zone at the snap and (b) stationary backs who at the snap are at least partially inside the tackle box and at least partially inside the frame of the body of the second lineman from the snapper. (A.R. 9-1-6-V)
2. Players not covered in paragraph 1 (above) while the ball is still in the zone, and all players after the ball has left the zone, are allowed to block below the waist only if the force of the initial contact is from the front, but they may not block below the waist if the force of the initial contact is from the side or back. “From the front” is understood to mean within the clock-face region between “10 o’clock and 2 o’clock” forward of the player being blocked. (A.R. 9-1-6-I-II, IV, VII-VIII)
3. Once the ball has left the zone a player may not block below the waist toward his
own end line. (A.R. 9-1-6-III)

 

[khardbored]

Let's review our terminology:

Chop Block: Two players of one team blocking a single player of the other team; one of the two blocks high, the other blocks low. This is always illegal.

Block Below the Waist: (nickname "cut block") A player of one team blocks the player of another team below the waist. College: in some situations this is legal, in some situations it is not. High School: always illegal except when conditions of the free blocking zone are met.


In the case of Miller, we are NOT discussing a chop block in any way, shape, or form. We are discussing a block below the waist. I only saw one replay, so I can't really comment on the legality, although if he was hit essentially "in the front" then it's legal.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

Legality of the play aside, I hate watching teams rely on cut blocks. I have had a growing disdain for the practice of it for the last several years simply because it seems to add a lot of needless risk to the field. If you are in position to block a player legally with a cut block, you are in position to block them normally. I can't imagine there not being some sort of lasting damage to knees when a 260 lb guy gets cut 15-20 times a game.

 

[WastedTalent]

Cut blocking (when executed properly), is more effective than straight up blocking, so if it's legal, which it is, then obviously teams are going to use it. Nobody gives a **** if you personally think it's "dirty."

 

[Skidoosh]

Cut blocking (when executed properly), is more effective than straight up blocking, so if it's legal, which it is, then obviously teams are going to use it. Nobody gives a **** if you personally think it's "dirty."

Go talk to any NFL linebacker age 50+, or better yet, look at their knees. High chance you'll see some big *** surgery scars. So yes, some people give a **** that its dirty.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

Go talk to any NFL linebacker age 50+, or better yet, look at their knees. High chance you'll see some big *** surgery scars. So yes, some people give a **** that its dirty.

This is true. NFL defensive players (a.k.a., biggest panzies in the world) are the majority of the people I've seen reported on complaining about cut blocking. Even the NFL teams that do cut block a lot often refuse to practice it in their own team due to the risk. If that doesn't tell you something, nothing will.

 

[Cyclone06]

I caught the very end of the reply in the stadium, was hoping for another. I think they refused to show it again because it was a bush league block and much of the stadium was looking for it and a reason to go bonkers. Effective block? Sure. Made with intent to injure? Maybe. Dirty? **** YES! They guy could have blocked above the waist and got the same result. Instead Miller won't play football again and has months of rehab ahead. Miller deserved a senior night game, that play ****** me off way more than the rest of the game.

 

[IowaStateClones]

People who get chop blocked don't put up points so nobody cares. No money to be made in helping defenses!

shut the **** up. This post makes me want to punch myself in the face.

 

[IowaStateClones]

Bruns doesnt know his head from his *** sometimes. Don't confuse confidence with knowledge.

And you are a ******* piece of ****

 

[khardbored]

Here's the quote from today's session with CPR, FWIW:

“They can’t get a good feel for this one,” Rhoads said. “They believe it’s an MCL, but they don’t know what else. It’s ugly on tape. I know that. It’s a clean play. It’s a legal block and it’s a clean play. I’ve got not problem with what happened on the play. It’s just a bad result of a botched snap and that caught (Miller’s) eyes and his eyes didn’t go where they should have gone to help defeat the block.”

 

[Rhoadhoused]

shut the **** up. This post makes me want to punch myself in the face.

Why? It's absolutely true.

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

can we pretend this thread never happened

 

[besserheimerphat]

This isn't an effort to totally derail the thread but, isn't this the same as the concussion argument? I recall a lot of people discounting the CTE issue because "He knows the risks, nobody is forcing him to play, etc etc..." Or do we legitimately care more about people's knees than their brains?

 

[VeloClone]

Legal or not, he intentionally hit a player through the side of the knee. He wasn't just there and the defender ran into him or a block below the waist to the front of the knee. That is as dangerous as you can get blocking a player and still be a legal play. Keep doing that and it is not a question of if you are going to end someone's season but rather when.

 

[khardbored]

Does anyone have a clip of the play? (non pay)

 

[klamath632]

I tried uploading it. [video=youtube;NvXOs2ts6nU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvXOs2ts6nU&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Bonus points for watching the reply and seeing Luke Knott being tackled by the left tackle #71.

 

[khardbored]

What the **** are you guys talking about? The guy lined up in the backfield, and he cut Miller at the knee. Miller, unfortunately, was planted on that leg at the time, so I'm pretty sure his ACL/MCL are gone.

Whether it was legal or not, it was one of the dirtiest plays I've seen.

Edit: now after reviewing the rule, I'm not sure if it was illegal. Either way, it was still dirty. The block did not come from the front, so it was legal only if it happened within seven yards of the center, and five yards or less downfield. I need to review the video, because I believe it was close to being more than 7 yards away from the center.

I tried uploading it. [video=youtube;NvXOs2ts6nU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvXOs2ts6nU&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Bonus points for watching the reply and seeing Luke Knott being tackled by the left tackle #71.

Thanks for posting this!

So after reading your rules and watching the video here, I think there is no question whatsoever that the block was perfectly legal. It was a stationary back at the snap lined up within the tackle box; the block occurred no more than 5 yards down field (it was nearly at the blue line) and definitely less than 7 yards laterally from the snapper's original position. Frankly, as the rule goes, he could have clipped him (from behind) and it would have been legal meeting all these conditions.

We may disagree, as I don't even see it being dirty. A fullback cutting a linebacker just beyond the line a few steps advance of the runner? Happens all the time. If the snap had not been botched, the wing back would have been about 1-2 steps behind the blocker. The blocker just executed what he was supposed to do. Like CPR said, Miller looked and slightly modified his path noticing the bad snap and it just went wrong.

As previously mentioned, this would be 100% illegal in high school, citing safety reasons. (only linemen may block other linemen on the line below the waist in H.S., even then, only when the ball is still in the free blocking zone) Perhaps we should be mad at the rule that allows a fullback to get a running start and go low.

Edit: Bonus Points -- Yep. Knott was not only held (twice, by the same player), he may have been facemasked.

 

[CyCloned]

Bonus points for watching the reply and seeing Luke Knott being tackled by the left tackle #71.[/QUOTE]

ya, that was pretty bad, and really right in the open. There is another play later in the game when two ISU guys are being held for an extended period of time in the open field and Morrisey ends up getting a penalty for shoving the guy holding him after the play.

 

[dualthreat]

I thought the fake punt was an awful play call. On 4th and 1 in that situation you have your back up punter throw a pass into the wind to a defensive back?!
And don't ask me how the hell Oklahoma didn't anticipate a fake.

 

[Wesley]

I thought the fake punt was an awful play call. On 4th and 1 in that situation you have your back up punter throw a pass into the wind to a defensive back?!
And don't ask me how the hell Oklahoma didn't anticipate a fake.

You answered your own question.