Offensive Woes

[CycloneVet]

Some of you people think its a matter of calling plays only. Let me go through what graduated on offense last year. 1. Money Reynolds 2. KO and Hayworth Hicks What does that add up to? Physicality at their positions. How many times did we run behind KO and know he would beat his guy? How many times did we throw a jump ball or a ball that required Reynolds to outposition the db for the the ball? Check last years OSU game, with out KO Woody isnt blowing through the D-line, without Money we dont beat Iowa. Those 2 guys would make our qb's a little better. We cant estabish the run consistently, because our line isnt physical, if we could then life for are qb's would be easier, we cant complete passes consistently because of inaccuracy as well as lack of physical receivers. Another reason we cant establish the run is our recievers arent physical enough for downfield blocking. Alot of things would open up with better players. Our qb's are terrible but it doesnt help when we cant create consistent matchup problems with superior players anywhere on our offense. Coach Messingham inherited a slightly down offense, lets stay positive at least this year and the next, let the new guys come in and if its not working then so be it and lets show him the door.
With a few exceptions the team takes on the personality of their head coach because he is the guy closing the deals in the living room. Our team resembles our head coach, our defense is ahead of the offense. West Virginia/OSU/Baylor are the same way, but exactly opposite. Which would you rather have? Playing KSU tough with a shot to win it in the end or getting blasted 55-14 like West Virginia? Granted each is a loss but us Cyclone fans know what getting blasted feels like.

 

[Luth4Cy]

Rhoads gave Mess his full support and Woody sounded positive after Saturday's game. My guess is they'll figure this out by the end of the season. I also think it's definitely a matter of adjustments, that's why we start games so strong and struggle after the first couple possessions.

 

[Clonefan94]

My problem with the offense isn't play calling, it's the entire scheme. This is year 4 of this offense. Granted, under a new guy, but none the less, I have yet to see anything in 4 years that makes me think this offense is the right direction. I keep hoping I'm going to be proven differently, but every week it's the same thing. Right now we'd probably kill to have last years O, and I've seen a couple of posts wishing AA was still here. All things that were complained about non-stop during those seasons. It's amazing, but just when I think, it can't get any worse, it finds a way to.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

I don't really have that much to say, as it is a problem with the offense in general, but, I do have a couple thoughts:

1. Why are we not seeing more of Jeff Woody? We are not having success throwing the ball, we might as well let him pound on opposing defenses a little.

2. Barnett is a good runner, but not a good scrambler. In that I mean, he can run with the ball, but seems to be a terrible thrower while on the run.

3. I might scream if I see us backed up to our goal line while still in the shotgun one more time.

 

[aeroclone]

My problem with the offense isn't play calling, it's the entire scheme. This is year 4 of this offense. Granted, under a new guy, but none the less, I have yet to see anything in 4 years that makes me think this offense is the right direction. I keep hoping I'm going to be proven differently, but every week it's the same thing. Right now we'd probably kill to have last years O, and I've seen a couple of posts wishing AA was still here. All things that were complained about non-stop during those seasons. It's amazing, but just when I think, it can't get any worse, it finds a way to.

Yeah, basically this. Sure, we lost some key pieces from last year. That said, the offense was the weak point of our team last year as well. And the year before that. And the year before that. You have different faces every year, that is just part of college football. But we have had a bottom feeder offense for years. And I don't see any reason why I should be optimistic that things will get much better next year either. Maybe it is the scheme. Maybe it is that we don't have the athletes we need for this scheme. Whatever it is, it still isn't working. We need to find a scheme for which we can actually get the players we need to run it effectively. If we don't have that in year 4, I don't know why I should believe we ever will.

Take a look at our scoring against BCS conference opponents:

2012
Iowa - 9
TT - 13
TCU - 37
KSU - 21
OSU - 10

2011
Iowa - 44 (24 in regulation)
UConn - 24
UT - 14
Baylor - 26
Mizzou - 17
aTm - 17
Texas Tech - 41
KU - 13
OSU - 37 (24 in regulation)
OU - 6
KSU - 23
Rutgers - 13

2010
Iowa - 7
KSU - 20
Texas Tech - 52
OU - 0
Texas - 28
KU - 28
Nebby - 30 (24 in regulation)
CU - 14
Mizzou - 0

We have scored more than 30 in regulation against BCS foes 3 times in 3 years, twice against TT and then against TCU. That is just not going to get it done in this league, even if our D is good. It doesn't seem to be showing signs of getting any better, and it is just starting to feel like we are trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.

 

[Wesley]

I don't really have that much to say, as it is a problem with the offense in general, but, I do have a couple thoughts:

1. Why are we not seeing more of Jeff Woody? We are not having success throwing the ball, we might as well let him pound on opposing defenses a little.

2. Barnett is a good runner, but not a good scrambler. In that I mean, he can run with the ball, but seems to be a terrible thrower while on the run.

3. I might scream if I see us backed up to our goal line while still in the shotgun one more time.

JB was close. Three of his touch passes were floated 1-2 yards high. He was close but no cigar. He exhibited frustration at least three times on the field.

 

[Senolcyc]

Some of you people

The best threads always start out with "Some of you people....."

 

[Wesley]

Total Defense - NCAA.com

http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/1027


We have played four of the top defensive teams so far including Iowa with OU to play. We are 56.

We have played four of the top 37 offensive teams so far with four to go. KU is 89. We are 101 and almost as bad as Iowa.

On paper, we approximate Iowa.

 

[canker2323]

That is awful (in response to Aeroclone's post). Do those numbers include points scored by the defense?

 

[CycoCyclone]

this starts and ends with the OC

 

[Cyclophile1]

We have scored more than 30 in regulation against BCS foes 3 times in 3 years, twice against TT and then against TCU. That is just not going to get it done in this league, even if our D is good. It doesn't seem to be showing signs of getting any better, and it is just starting to feel like we are trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.

Thanks for laying that out like that. It shows in stark terms how inadequate our offense has been, relative to our competition. You're going to lose a lot of games averaging 20-24 points per game in the Big12, you just are.

 

[blutarsky]

Insult to injury is having to watch Kansas State, Oklahoma State and others in the Big12 make it look easy.

I've been critical of Mess on this board and I will continue to do so until he gets consistency with this group. Look, we can talk about last season and all the players we had. We can look to the future and project what this group should become, but the fact of the matter is that right now this offensive unit is bad. Messingham knew what he was inheriting and he needs to figure out a scheme that this unit can execute. The o-line is suspect, the QB play hasn't been good and receivers can't block nor can they get open. (Can the real Josh Lentz please stand up) This falls at the feet of Mess and CPR to find something that works.

 

[isufbcurt]

I don't put the blame on Mess.

Like Woody said in the post game, it isn't one big thing. Go back and watch the game, you will see that the plays called for the most part were there, it's just one person not doing their job and the whole thing gets blown up. A missed block here, a holding penalty/false start there and a dropped pass there. One of these little things really screws up a play that was properly designed/called.

 

[Wesley]

I don't put the blame on Mess.

Like Woody said in the post game, it isn't one big thing. Go back and watch the game, you will see that the plays called for the most part were there, it's just one person not doing their job and the whole thing gets blown up. A missed block here, a holding penalty/false start there and a dropped pass there. One of these little things really screws up a play that was properly designed/called.

On a happier note, we have had fewer turnovers lately. Seriously, we need the offense look like they are going to beat Baylor right out of the chute min order to demoralize them.

 

[heitclone]

The glaring thing this season is the absolute lack of a run game. Even with its struggles last year the offense could usually grind out some rusing yards, this year its missing that as well. Not having James White and Josh Lenz (arguable the 2 best players on offense) really hurt last week, but we have guys who have shown glimpses of being playmakers. As far as playcalling, JB looked better off of PA passes or when he was moving out of the pocket, IMO that's because Okie st respected his ability to run. I'd be just fine with him tucking the ball more and picking up yards with his feet rather than tryign to make a play with his arm. It also seems like the defense is preferring he give the ball on the read option rather than keep it, when he does get the read to keep it, he picks up yards.

 

[Wesley]

The glaring thing this season is the absolute lack of a run game. Even with its struggles last year the offense could usually grind out some rusing yards, this year its missing that as well. Not having James White and Josh Lenz (arguable the 2 best players on offense) really hurt last week, but we have guys who have shown glimpses of being playmakers. As far as playcalling, JB looked better off of PA passes or when he was moving out of the pocket, IMO that's because Okie st respected his ability to run. I'd be just fine with him tucking the ball more and picking up yards with his feet rather than tryign to make a play with his arm. It also seems like the defense is preferring he give the ball on the read option rather than keep it, when he does get the read to keep it, he picks up yards.

I think if we are going to win, we will have to rush our qb more. Sorry. That is what it looks like.

 

[KPeaches6]

I still have confidence in JB, it may get a little annoying but I think he's our best shot at a W. I've heard a lot of good things on Sam Richardson tho and I didn't understand why we put Jantz in the game at OK ST. why not just see what Richardson can do when were down that big. Thoughts?

 

[Cyclophile1]

I think if we are going to win, we will have to rush our qb more. Sorry. That is what it looks like.

I agree and hope we see more stack veer (diamond) formation where we run Barnett out of that and option out of it. The strongside stuff isn't working consistently at all. I also would like to see more Pistol, play action passing as well as read options from it as well as Z-motion looks using West and Horne. Really reaching here but our standard 'stuff' ain't working.

 

[VeloClone]

I still have confidence in JB, it may get a little annoying but I think he's our best shot at a W. I've heard a lot of good things on Sam Richardson tho and I didn't understand why we put Jantz in the game at OK ST. why not just see what Richardson can do when were down that big. Thoughts?

I remember thinking when Jantz went in that Coach was at the point where he thought ISU's offense needed the high risk but high reward that Jantz tends to provide. They needed some big plays if ISU was going to get back into the game. One of the things I like about CPR is his fighting to the bitter end. I admit that I was thinking when it was clearly too late for even Jantz to pull out a miracle that it would be nice to see what SR has. At the same time, CPR was trying to find some success for the O to build on for future games.

 

[VeloClone]

Really reaching here but our standard 'stuff' ain't working.

I don't remember Rob even getting in the backfield.