*** Official IOWA STATE Vs TCU Gameday Thread ***

[jbindm]

kind of. The players have to take ownership and lead too. Listen to any of Campbell's talks about the coach can only do so much, the players have to take ownership.

Agreed. The coach can bring in his guys and preach whatever he wants, but it's a two way street. If the players don't buy in then it's for naught.

And sometimes the most effective way for the players to buy in and understand is for them to get embarrassed once or twice. TCU is a good team, significantly better than their conference record suggests. But I don't think they're that much better than ISU. They got whatever shot they wanted last night. There was zero resistance from the defense.

 

[jsb]

kind of. The players have to take ownership and lead too. Listen to any of Campbell's talks about the coach can only do so much, the players have to take ownership.

I like Babb and am very pleased with his play this year. But he has to be a leader.

 

[AuH2O]

Wow, with the hangover I have from watching that game I should have gone ahead and just drank another 6 pack.

I think Prohms comments after the game to Walters summed it up. Team just needs to grow up. Love the kids and their talent but they need to bear down. Need a leader to show up and they need to start punching opponents in the mouth (I better be clear I mean figuratively with latest happenings on some courts). Maybe the guys are too nice. Do we have any thugs in inbound group?

I think what young players in general need to learn and probably anyone that's been in the ISU program recently is the extent and focus it takes to play even good defense for a majority of possessions. It's a grind and its taxing, and its not something they've had to do in HS, nor has it been something ISU hoops has been built on in recent years. Our guys aren't lazy idiots and our coaches know what they are doing. Small, brief lapses and a minor mental error can turn into easy buckets for a good offensive team like TCU. Playing good team defense off the ball is a lot more complicated than people think.

 

[rholtgraves]

I think they are little further behind than they thought they would be as well because of the injuries.

 

[jbhtexas]

Agreed. The coach can bring in his guys and preach whatever he wants, but it's a two way street. If the players don't buy in then it's for naught.

And sometimes the most effective way for the players to buy in and understand is for them to get embarrassed once or twice. TCU is a good team, significantly better than their conference record suggests. But I don't think they're that much better than ISU. They got whatever shot they wanted last night. There was zero resistance from the defense.

Many years ago, a coach I had said it comes down to getting in a mindset where you become personally and deeply offended by letting a team have easy scores, and so motivate yourself to prevent it from happening. And he had a crude, and certainly unpolitically correct metaphor for making his point.

 

[ca4cy]

I have said I'm basically not overly concerned with wins and I'm not. However that effort gives me no incentive to actually watch them play this year. It was an embarrassment in there. The inability to guard a simple pick and roll was disturbing.

Our defense has been far from perfect but last night was the first time in a while where it came down to effort for me. I won't go that far unless it becomes a trend. Win or lose our games have been fun to watch, aside from the endings, except for last night. Last night was definitely a debacle.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Look, I get where you are coming from.

TCU averages 88 a game. Very good offensively.

But they shot 60% from the floor and could have scored 110 on us had they not taken their foot off of the gas pedal. Not to mention that was without their starting PG.

That was a poor effort from ISU. Not much intensity at all.

I agree that we can be better than that. No question, and Coach Prohm indicated as much. I've just seen worse efforts out of more experienced teams against worse competition, and my bar for being embarrassed is pretty high (for sports in general for that matter, I just don't see it as that serious of a thing).

 

[TheJackWePack5]

I agree that we can be better than that. No question, and Coach Prohm indicated as much. I've just seen worse efforts out of more experienced teams against worse competition, and my bar for being embarrassed is pretty high (for sports in general for that matter, I just don't see it as that serious of a thing).

I agree with having seen worse efforts before. The TCU game on the road last year was pretty poor too if I remember correctly.

The embarrassing part for me wasn't giving up 96 points, it was just how it happened. Just looked like the team was going through the motions from the start and the only intensity they showed resulted in a (totally bogus) called technical.

 

[SCarolinaCy]

Wigginton had the most freshman two possessions right there. Great 3, then next time bad TO, got down and went under screen, swish in his face. Gotta recover more quickly...I know it will come with time but still frustrating to see.

Still plays like he is in HS.

 

[andymhallman]

It really is this simple. When Donovan is on then they need to make every effort to go to him. No need for Solomon shooting 3's or Wiggs trying to shoot a contested 15 footer. Or Jakolby Long shooting a 3. Just drive and kick until he misses 2 or 3 in a row. He is an elite shooter and when he is feeling it they need to keep going to that well.

As for defense....they simply have no chance. Lard can't defend s stretch 4 (yet). Solomon doesn't have the foot speed to recover to the corners after helping on the pick and rolls. The adjustment should have been just having Wiggs go under every screen until Alex Robinson shows the ability to hit a 17 footer.

I was going to write this exact thing. I will add that the problem I saw in the pick 'n roll was Brase was coming up too high in the paint to guard Robinson, even when Wigginton went under the screen. So now both Wigginton and Brase are defending Robinson, vacating the paint for Brodziansky. And it happened over and over. And over.

Some people are blaming Solomon's foot speed for giving up all those three-pointers, but to me it has more to do with him and the other forwards giving their man so much room because they're not comfortable guarding the perimeter. For one of those open threes, Brase was standing almost in the paint and his man was at the three point line in the corner when he received the ball. You can't cover that much ground no matter how quick your feet are.

We have a couple good shooters on this team in Wig and Jackson, and a big man in Lard who can handle himself inside. Overall, this team has pretty decent shot selection, but those three guys plus Babb should be taking the lion's share of our attempts. Babb is probably the best at driving to the rim. Jackson really struggles with that, and Wig struggled with it a bit yesterday. He tends to force it a bit too much.

As far as fixing these problems ... the offensive missteps seem easier to fix than the defensive ones, because our offense is actually not that bad. We do some things better than in year's past, like offensive rebounding.

The defensive struggles will be harder to fix, partly because we don't have the personnel. I'd like to experiment with Talley at the 4 because I think he can cover those stretch-fours and fives who've been burning us from outside this year.

 

[SCarolinaCy]

They are getting cut to pieces. Absolutely lost, and the sad thing is, they do seem to be trying. They just have no idea what to do.

Coaching?

 

[SCarolinaCy]

Also on the players, he pretty much ripped them a new one, and the still played like they didn't really care.

You do this at practice in November, not during the game mid way through the conference season.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I agree with having seen worse efforts before. The TCU game on the road last year was pretty poor too if I remember correctly.

The embarrassing part for me wasn't giving up 96 points, it was just how it happened. Just looked like the team was going through the motions from the start and the only intensity they showed resulted in a (totally bogus) called technical.

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't see that. I just saw a team that was indecisive on defense going up against a team that was very, very decisive (and quick) on offense. When we covered the outside, they ate us up inside, and vice versa. We didn't match up well personnel-wise. I thought the effort was there for the most part, though I think they did get down once the score widened out late.

 

[brokenloginagain]

You do this at practice in November, not during the game mid way through the conference season.

so you've never seen a bill self timeout ever?

 

[jsb]

You do this at practice in November, not during the game mid way through the conference season.

I bet you’d be pissed if he hadn’t yelled at them last night.

 

[Cyclonepride]

so you've never seen a bill self timeout ever?

I think when a calmly mannered coach does it, it generally catches the guys' attention. I think it did, as we reeled them back in twice. Just couldn't get over the hump and lost steam late.

 

[SolarGarlic]

You do this at practice in November, not during the game mid way through the conference season.

lol I knew you were an idiot, but this take really solidifies it. I'll forward this insight to Izzo, K, Calipari, Self, Huggins, Beilein, Roy, Marshall, ...

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Talk about a team that plays position less basketball. You've got Brodziansky, Miller, Williams, and Noi who are all big, physical presences, but also all have some element of finesse to their game, whether it's driving into the paint or knocking down a 3. They could all be guards or forwards, they all rebound and shoot well. Dixon has a very well oiled offensive machine down in Ft. Worth. He has taken the discombobulated roster that Trent Johnson created, and turned it into a diamond in the rough. They were down an offensive weapon yesterday, but I think it's safe to say that TCU is finally talented enough to overcome such deficiencies.

Really the salt in the wound is that even when TCU was at their worst, during the Hoiberg era, I can't remember out-classing them quite like they did to us last night. Felt like a major kick to the stones.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Look, I get where you are coming from.

TCU averages 88 a game. Very good offensively.

But they shot 60% from the floor and could have scored 110 on us had they not taken their foot off of the gas pedal. Not to mention that was without their starting PG.

That was a poor effort from ISU. Not much intensity at all.

I don't have a problem with anything you posted aside from the bolded. I don't thing playing their starters til the final buzzer is indicative of taking their foot off the gas. Was waiting for Dixon to let his bench soak up the final minute or two, but I think he really wanted a hundy

 

[knowlesjam]

I don't have a problem with anything you posted aside from the bolded. I don't thing playing their starters til the final buzzer is indicative of taking their foot off the gas. Was waiting for Dixon to let his bench soak up the final minute or two, but I think he really wanted a hundy

This. They certainly didn't hesitate to take the last turnover on our part and fast break down for a bucket with 12 seconds left (they could have pulled up and ran the clock out). Dixon wanted the team to play a full 40 minutes and see what they could do.