Officiating question....

[qwerty]

The blame for this whole mess was on the ref that called the foul, not the players and least of all Morgan for not running on the floor to stop it.
The whole mechanics of being the official here that called the foul says that. When a foul is called on the floor, the ref that called the foul, walks over to the scorers and tells or signals them the players number and whether it is a one and one or two or three free throws. The other two refs, during this time, administer the actual shooting of the free throws.

The ref that calls the foul is generally out front, and not under the basket unless they have rotated for some reason. It was his responsibility to blow his whistle immediately and stop play after the first shot was missed. The other officials also know how many free throws are being shot, as they tell the players at the line, and say "let the first one lay" or something of that effect.

Overall just a horrible job by the officials in not stopping the play after the first FT was missed, and then to allow KU to score off of it, and then allowing ISU to shoot another FT just make it worse. Either take the points off the board, or administer one FT for ISU and then award ISU the basketball after the other FT.

Correct. It is mind boggling that all three officials F'd up so bad at the same time. Any one of the officials could (SHOULD) have been blowing their whistle and stopping the play before KU even got to half court yet alone attempted a shot. My conclusion, these three officials became prison guards and were in charge of watching Jeffrey Epstein . . . .

 

[CyclonesRock]

There is no such correctable error as "game clock running, dead ball." Here are the five correctable errors from the rule book:

1. Failure to award a merited free throw
2. Awarding an unmerited free throw
3. Permitting a wrong player to attempt a free throw
4. Attempting a free throw at the wrong basket
5. Erroneously counting or canceling a score

LOL at number 4...

 

[c.y.c.l.o.n.e.s]

A couple of things that I think I remember from that day...

The confusion came when one official told the players it was a one and one while the other correctly signaled two shots. A big reason that they said they couldn't go back and just erase the basket was because we had inbounded the ball before they stopped the game and therefore not only had the clock run but a change of possession had taken place.

 

[qwerty]

A couple of things that I think I remember from that day...

The confusion came when one official told the players it was a one and one while the other correctly signaled two shots. A big reason that they said they couldn't go back and just erase the basket was because we had inbounded the ball before they stopped the game and therefore not only had the clock run but a change of possession had taken place.

I just re-watched the sequence. We did not inbound the ball. They immediately blew their whistles AFTER the made three.



But again, by the rule book, the officials followed the correct protocol ONCE play was stopped. My whole contention is ALL THREE OFFICIALS SCREWED UP SO BAD AT THE SAME TIME to allow the situation to continue to the point where the shot was attempted and made. I must be an NBA level official because I communicate with my partners to ensure we are all on the same page and everyone, including the players (though they don't pay attention most of the time) know the FTs awarded and next sequence if made or if missed.

I have had dozens, if not hundreds of times, where players grabbed the first miss on two shot and attempt to run out. Simply blow the whistle and stop that nonsense, whether you are the administrating official or center/trail. The fact that none of the three officials did that is incomprehensible.

 

[c.y.c.l.o.n.e.s]

I just re-watched the sequence. We did not inbound the ball. They immediately blew their whistles AFTER the made three.

Welp, my memory fails me again.

 

[NoCreativity]

I just re-watched the sequence. We did not inbound the ball. They immediately blew their whistles AFTER the made three.

Those announcers are so far up KU's arse it takes them until 2 minutes into the video to figure out what's going on. The foul wasn't even questionable at all, it was a clear shooting foul.

I dont know why all the ISU players ran back on D though.

I love how that one ref tells Morgan right away also that "that's the rule", so it didn't take them long to figure out they messed up at all but convient you don't hear any of them stop the play until after the made basket.

 

[HFCS]

If my memory is correct, I thought refs said that once play had resumed and points were scored, you cannot take points off the board so the 3 shot basket was allowed.

Only in Lawrence can you rebound the ball after the 1st shot of a two-shot free throw, run to the other end (while the opposing team is literally standing there wondering WTF is going on), make a 3 point basket and have it count.

As if that wasn't bad enough, that illegal basket was the difference in the game.

This can’t be right though. What is to stop the ft shooting g team from trying to tip the ball in after every missed first ft? Nothing, if so. That tipped in missed first ft would count? No it wouldn’t…except for KU maybe.

I can’t even rationally see how it’s different than scoring after the shot clock or game clock hits zero.

 

[HFCS]

Does anyone know if there’s a statute of limitations in referring back to the Kansas free throw debacle? Is it like 9000 years?

I think it’s until it happens for any other team at any level of basketball. Since it all evens out ISU should get their own dead ball three, probably in a few hours at the same scene if the crime. So excited to see it soon.

 

[HFCS]

There are two competing "correctable error" rulings on a play like the Homan FT.

IMO, they picked the wrong one (failing to award a merited free throw) instead of the right one (game clock running, dead ball).

The first allows everything that happens in the interim (the made 3) to stand. The second wipes everything off the board and we go back to where we should be (attempting FT #2).

So should teams be coached to put back missed first ft and hope the refs chose the KU unicorn decision? I’m guessing if a few did we’d get clarity in form of a rule that phantom 3 situation is impossible.

 

[HFCS]

I think in the same game an overshadowed event thanks to the "phantom" three was a KU player hitting a 2.....getting awarded a 3.....they go review, his foot is clearly over the line......and still allow the 3.

People also forget a much better KU team needed all this help to tie a game vs a pretty average ISU team at home. Instances like this are what created their “title” streak.

If any one of the three horrific calls don’t happen in final two minutes of the Georges game KSU wins b12 outright that year and snaps their streak earlier. About 1/3 of their “titles” benefit from games they got bizarre out of the ordinary over the top bad calls. They’re the best by far in our conference, but a lot of tainted results made it look more dominant than it was.

 

[CycloneErik]

There was a Big 12 tourney game against them also where Self was completely out of control then they decided to T up Hoiberg instead when finally raised his voice to stick up for his team.

Not even that. Fred walked out onto the court during a timeout to talk to his assistants.
You can see Fred saying in protest "It was a timeout."

Kansas must be destroyed.

 

[sj4]

Once an error is realized, you stop play. Whatever happen from the point of the error to the realization of the error stands. Then play resumes from the point of the error. IE any points or fouls that occurred would count. The officials handled the correction of the error per the rules.

The real issue is that you shouldn't have that kind of a mistake at that level of play.

This is correct. Here's the rule and an Approved Ruling from the book. And to all those who say they should try to get away with something because of the way the rule reads then absolutely. Try. The worst that can happen is the officials correctly stop play at that point.

And I've always thought gym announcers should not announce anything that has to do with the administration of the game. It can only cause confusion like it seemed to do here. But bottom line it was the officiating crews fault. Period.

The rule:
Section 12. Correctable Errors
Art. 1. The correctable errors are as follows:
a. Failing to award a merited free throw

(***then four others are listed but this is the one that applies here).

Art. 2. When the officials’ error, as in Rules 2-12.1.a through .d, is made while the game clock is stopped, such errors must be recognized and corrected by an official during the first dead ball after the game clock has been started properly.

The Approved Ruling in the book. Slightly different in that the first free throw was made but still the same ruling.

A.R. 32. B1 pushes A1 during an unsuccessful try� A1 is awarded two free
throws� The first free throw by A1 is successful, after which B2 takes the ball out of bounds under Team A’s basket and passes to B3, who passes to B4 for an uncontested field goal in Team B’s basket� The captain of Team A then calls to the attention of an official that A1 did not receive a second free throw�

RULING: The goal by B4 shall count. A1 shall be permitted to attempt
the second free throw with no players lined up along the free-throw
lane. The ball shall then be awarded to Team A out of bounds at the
end line nearer Team B’s basket and the thrower-in shall be permitted
to run the end line. This was the point where the game was stopped to
correct the error.
(Rule 2-12-1.a and 2-12.2)