Perspective from the Big Ten and some much needed clarifications

[Cyclones1969]

I think we’re at a point in college football where there are only 15-20 teams that would increase the value of a conferences tv deal. And probably a third of those teams are in the SEC, including Texas and OU.

There are 7. historically, Arkansas could be, but they have been bad and that has taken away from them having impact.

the acc has 4 Clemson, notre dame, Florida state and Miami (see Arkansas as to why they aren’t moving the needle currently)

the big 10 has their 3, and the pac had sc, Washington, and Nike

so out of 17 football schools that matter, 7 will be controlled by Disney. The money will be really interesting, and the reactions to the money by the other 10, will be even more so

 

[Cyclones1969]

He has no power so all he can do is talk.

He has to make some statement because the tech fanbase is actually quite large, and very Texan.

 

[BCClone]

What’d did he or she say?

Not a whole lot, just popping little things off like he’s nervous and such. What he says doesn’t really help. He hasn’t learned that the last to talk generally wins in these things.

 

[BCClone]

There are 7. historically, Arkansas could be, but they have been bad and that has taken away from them having impact.

the acc has 4 Clemson, notre dame, Florida state and Miami (see Arkansas as to why they aren’t moving the needle currently)

the big 10 has their 3, and the pac had sc, Washington, and Nike

so out of 17 football schools that matter, 7 will be controlled by Disney. The money will be really interesting, and the reactions to the money by the other 10, will be even more so

When you break this down. UT and OU eliminating one conference does hurt them long term. Fox may be happy with the big ten and PAC12. ESPN with the SEC and ACC. They don’t need to bid too hard if they are content with those and don’t look to get a chunk of the other schools. Keep adding blues to their 2 conferences and the inventory increases. Long term this could be a foolish move by OU and UT.

 

[flycy]

Do you see any issues with the Cali schools and their boycott on certain states (Iowa is one of 20 or so) states that they are not allowed to use public funds for travel? It would make the state schools a difficult sell if they have to travel to those states more than once a year or so.

I believe athletic teams are exempt.

 

[legi]

What’d did he or she say?

Redirect Notice

 

[Cyclones1969]

When you break this down. UT and OU eliminating one conference does hurt them long term. Fox may be happy with the big ten and PAC12. ESPN with the SEC and ACC. They don’t need to bid too hard if they are content with those and don’t look to get a chunk of the other schools. Keep adding blues to their 2 conferences and the inventory increases. Long term this could be a foolish move by OU and UT.

From a competitive standpoint, it was going to be a foolish move for them anyway.

Ut hasn’t been competitive on a national level since colt McCoy.

ou is walking into a situation where they will not be a playoff team, unless espn got their way and can get 6 sec teams every year.

they made a decision based solely on $$$, and that’s fine. But they also hurt themselves short and long term competitively.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

The big ten already makes way more money then those schools.

That's exactly what I said. That's also the reason why Texas and Oklahoma wanted to disassociate from the rest of the Big 12. My point is that the B1G is not going to ally in a meaningful way i.e. rights distribution or anything like that because it would split their pie more ways than it would grow it.

 

[isucy86]

Quick Update

Big ten-Pac-ACC are entering an alliance in hopes to postpone any more expansion for the next few years. Jim Delany (former big ten commish) has been heavily involved talking with all three conferences and the consensus seems to be that maintaining the status quo of the conferences. While there will never be a formal agreement talking about not poaching teams the conferences all feel that it is generally in their best interest to stay where they are for the next few years. For the ACC they were stuck due to their GOR. The Pac agreed because they cant afford to lose their top teams and the big ten is hoping to sign a short 5-7 year media rights deal that would be up right around the ACC's is and then realignment talks might start again with some teams that they actually want. ...........

Could this all change overnight? Of course but that is what i am currently hearing.

Not sure that statement is accurate. I believe the current Big10 agreement ends after the 2022/23 academic year. The ACC Network deal with ESPN and GOR run through 2035/36 academic year. So if the Big10 is looking to a short-term agreement it has nothing to do with it matching up with the ACC's renewal.

The Big10 made out pretty well in the last round of media rights renewal (around 2016) because it has allowed them to reset their media rights value after only 7 years. A good move in a media rights market that is increasing dramatically YOY.

The Big10 might be looking shorter term to see how the marketplace evolves with the SEC's recent move. The other big thing to watch is how the Big12's GOR's standup over the next 3 years. If Texas & OU can get out of the deal (with ESPN's help), then that establishes a blueprint for Clemson, Florida State, UNC, etc. to void the ACC GOR.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

I believe athletic teams are exempt.

They aren't exempt but UCs and CSUs have been using private funding for that sort of travel. It would be annoying but doable. Would not surprise me if a condition of Pac-12 entry was for ISU OSU etc. to set up a private foundation that would fund travel costs for Cal and UCLA when they played road games at the new schools.

 

[isucy86]

What teams in the ACC outside of Clemson and FSU are worth more than USC and Washington?

UNC might be worth more if one considers their basketball tradition and IF Mack Brown can build their FB program into a perennial top 10-15 team. Plus with their academics- UNC would be very attractive to the Big10. Would be willing to bet the Big10 will be all over UNC and Virginia- more so than USC & Oregon.

Penn State, Maryland, Rutgers, UNC & Virginia would give the Big10 a solid east coast presence.

 

[isucy86]

So why would the big ten take ACC teams that would pull their payouts down?

The Big10 has ownership in its network. So as long as they can keep the Big10 Network as part of most cable & streaming services- then adding Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia, etc. might make sense.

Also, if the Big10 can expand it's geographic footprint that helps with prestige and recruiting.

They might also come to conclusion that having the most money isn't absolutely necessary to on field/court success. Just look at Texas, Michigan, Tennessee, etc.

 

[isucy86]

IMO it is wrong to assume that the SEC is done with big moves. Clemson & FL State would be huge gets if they can get out of their GOR. I am sure they are waiting to see what happens with UT/OU path out of Big12 and it's GOR.

Also, I seriously doubt USC is just standing on the sidelines waiting on the Big10. Why wouldn't USC be in play for the SEC? If there was potential for OU/UT to join the Pac12 a decade ago. Seems like a really bold move for the SEC would be to add USC, UCLA, Arizona & Arizona State. An SEC "really West" division would be very attractive:

Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Arkansas
Arizona
Arizona State
USC
UCLA

drop UCLA and Arizona and it would still be attractive. But if the SEC has a chance at Clemson & Florida State- then the above 8 makes a nice division or part of 4 six team divisions.

 

[SeaClone]

It’s pretty unlikely to me that both of these would be true: (1) the B1G makes significantly more money than the ACC or Pac-12 as it is, and (2) a B1G/ACC/Pac-12 Alliance would result in more money for the B1G.

Since (1) is true right now I’m highly skeptical of (2). If you say “It’s because Ohio State and Michigan will play USC and Clemson every year and keep the money” - don’t they already play major non-con games and keep the money? They’re playing Oregon and Washington this year as it is. They play Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame etc.

The alliance makes sense in every way except the B1G’s financials, which is why I’m skeptical it will happen in any meaningful way (other than the leagues agreeing to vote together on governance or playoff matters).

Also 20 schools is unwieldy but doable. You could do four pods of 5 that rotate annually, so that you have 4 rivals you play annually and you play 5 of the remaining 15 each year on a rotation - facing each school in the league once per 3 years. Seems easy for hoops, too - play everyone once, plus a home-and-home series with one team.

How do you pick two teams for a championship game without a semifinal? And if you plan on a semifinal, how do you plan for that without adding another game to the schedule. If you already play 12 regular season games, plus conf semifinal and championship, plus potentially 3-4 games with an expanded playoff, you’re up to 17-18 games to win a national championship…that’s a lot of games for college kids.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

How do you pick two teams for a championship game without a semifinal? And if you plan on a semifinal, how do you plan for that without adding another game to the schedule. If you already play 12 regular season games, plus conf semifinal and championship, plus potentially 3-4 games with an expanded playoff, you’re up to 17-18 games to win a national championship…that’s a lot of games for college kids.

You wouldn't need a semifinal. You would have four 5-team pods - call them A/B/C/D - and each year you would pair them to form two divisions.

2021, A/B form a division and C/D do the same. In 2022, A/C and B/D. 2023, A/D and B/C. In each year, you play only the teams in your division. The winners of each 10-team division play in the CCG.

So a team in Pod A would play 4 schools annually - their rivals and whoever is close to them to comprise Pod A - and then 5 of the remaining 15 schools in a given year, and those 5 would rotate one pod at a time. You'd play every team once every 3 years, while still playing 9 conference games a year.

It might look something like this if the Pac-12 and Big 12 actually merged:

East Pod
West Virginia
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State

South Pod
Baylor
TCU
Texas Tech
Arizona
Arizona State

West Pod
Cal
Stanford
USC
UCLA
Utah OR Colorado (rotate every cycle)

North Pod
Washington
Washington State
Oregon
Oregon State
Colorado OR Utah (rotate every cycle)

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

You have the jist of it. Big ten was already in media talks before this realignment so they had an idea of what they were already worth and while big 12 schools could add to that money they might not add another 80mil to the yearly total to keep payouts the same as what they are hearing now.

No team other than ND are going to be worth $80 million. I doubt the Big 10 is going to see a jump from $55 to $80 per school under this new deal.
To me this whole alliance is trying to buy time and allow the Big 10 and Pac 12 to get their media rights locked up before they look to expand.

Why would the Pac 12 after their media rights are locked up wait around for the Big 10 to try and take teams from their conference? Get you media deal finished and then expand and go from there, if it does not work out, then they are going to lose the teams anyway. But if it does, then they become the power conference west of the Missouri River to the Pacific Ocean.

 

[DarkStar]

Quick Update

Big ten-Pac-ACC are entering an alliance in hopes to postpone any more expansion for the next few years. Jim Delany (former big ten commish) has been heavily involved talking with all three conferences and the consensus seems to be that maintaining the status quo of the conferences. While there will never be a formal agreement talking about not poaching teams the conferences all feel that it is generally in their best interest to stay where they are for the next few years. For the ACC they were stuck due to their GOR. The Pac agreed because they cant afford to lose their top teams and the big ten is hoping to sign a short 5-7 year media rights deal that would be up right around the ACC's is and then realignment talks might start again with some teams that they actually want.

Part of the reason the big ten is interested in staying put for the time being is that their new rights deal will bring in around 80mil per school and talks about adding pac12 teams would result in a lower per school payout. In addition many AD's are under the impression that even with texas and OU that the SEC payout could still be less then the big tens due to them owning part of the big ten network vs the SEC network which is owned entirely by espn.

What this means for the big 12 is that it seems likely that texas and OU will be forced to stay in the big 12 for the next few years unless a payout agreement can be reached. The alliance schools wouldn't be adding any of the hateful 8 and the big 12 would be forced to expand with some other schools such as BYU that would need access to the playoff.

Could this all change overnight? Of course but that is what i am currently hearing.

Is anyone thinking about the fact that all this greed and hypocrisy is killing off the very thing that made college sports great?

They continue down this road and all they will accomplish is killing off the goose that is laying the golden egg. Fans staying connected to their University.

Does an extra 20 or 30 million really make a meaningful difference to Ohio State's athletic department. Texas is proof the answer is no. LHN is also another good example of the disaster that comes with assuming value is only driven by the top brands in a conference.

What are their thoughts on the playoffs?

Personally I would like to see them go to an 8 team playoff where every FBS conference gets an auto bid. Turns it into a mini version of march madness where conference championship games are the first round of a 16 team playoff where the losers go on to play in a NY6 bowl game.

That switches the media focus away from just a few schools to what is going on in each conference. Right now there is no reason for anyone to watch the BTN because it is a foregone conclusion that Ohio State is going to the playoffs. Not because of what a scoreboard says but because they are the only school in the conference that passes some arbitrary ever changing opinion of a select few they call an "eye test."

To get to 8 FBS conferences, that would mean the Big XII gets carved up and FBS Independents get told to join a conference if they want to compete for a national championship.

That makes each P4 a 16 team conference with 4 team pods. 9 game conference schedule with home and aways every year with the other members of your pod and a rotating home and away with 2 teams from the other 3 pods. Set up a tie breaker system that puts the two best teams in the conference in the championship game.

That addresses one of the major challenges facing every AD. Declining attendance at games. Every fanbase has at least 3 away games they can very easily travel too and there will be an away game in every venue in the conference they can travel to every 4 years. Every AD also gets the chance to sell their tickets to three other fanbases every other year and every fanbase in the conference every 4 years.

Conference Champions only playoff bids also restores the value of the bowl system. 2nd best teams in the B1G and Pac 16 will still go to the Rose bowl instead of each conference sending their 4th or 5th best team. Leaving few teams available for lesser bowls.

The current 12 team proposal will kill off the bowl game revenue stream and also give fans of programs with little chance of playing in or winning a national championship a way to celebrate their team and a reason to stay engaged and connected to their school. Keep telling fans bowl games don't matter only further alienates fans.

The thing that makes college athletics great is it enhances the environment of every college campus while establishing and maintaining the connection the University has with its alumni, community, and State.

Engaged fans and alumni are the real lifeblood of every University.

Selling out your fans to the greed of a couple media giants for a few more million in your Athletic Department budget is a darn good way to drive them away

 

[DarkStar]

Is anyone thinking about the fact that all this greed and hypocrisy is killing off the very thing that made college sports great?

They continue down this road and all they will accomplish is killing off the goose that is laying the golden egg. Fans staying connected to their University.

Does an extra 20 or 30 million really make a meaningful difference to Ohio State's athletic department. Texas is proof the answer is no. LHN is also another good example of the disaster that comes with assuming value is only driven by the top brands in a conference.

What are their thoughts on the playoffs?

Personally I would like to see them go to an 8 team playoff where every FBS conference gets an auto bid. Turns it into a mini version of march madness where conference championship games are the first round of a 16 team playoff where the losers go on to play in a NY6 bowl game.

That switches the media focus away from just a few schools to what is going on in each conference. Right now there is no reason for anyone to watch the BTN because it is a foregone conclusion that Ohio State is going to the playoffs. Not because of what a scoreboard says but because they are the only school in the conference that passes some arbitrary ever changing opinion of a select few they call an "eye test."

To get to 8 FBS conferences, that would mean the Big XII gets carved up and FBS Independents get told to join a conference if they want to compete for a national championship.

That makes each P4 a 16 team conference with 4 team pods. 9 game conference schedule with home and aways every year with the other members of your pod and a rotating home and away with 2 teams from the other 3 pods. Set up a tie breaker system that puts the two best teams in the conference in the championship game.

That addresses one of the major challenges facing every AD. Declining attendance at games. Every fanbase has at least 3 away games they can very easily travel too and there will be an away game in every venue in the conference they can travel to every 4 years. Every AD also gets the chance to sell their tickets to three other fanbases every other year and every fanbase in the conference every 4 years.

Conference Champions only playoff bids also restores the value of the bowl system. 2nd best teams in the B1G and Pac 16 will still go to the Rose bowl instead of each conference sending their 4th or 5th best team. Leaving few teams available for lesser bowls.

The current 12 team proposal will kill off the bowl game revenue stream and also give fans of programs with little chance of playing in or winning a national championship a way to celebrate their team and a reason to stay engaged and connected to their school. Keep telling fans bowl games don't matter only further alienates fans.

The thing that makes college athletics great is it enhances the environment of every college campus while establishing and maintaining the connection the University has with its alumni, community, and State.

Engaged fans and alumni are the real lifeblood of every University.

Selling out your fans to the greed of a couple media giants for a few more million in your Athletic Department budget is a darn good way to drive them away

My apologies for the wall of text.

TL/DR Version.
Greed and hypocrisy of the way things are going is killing off what makes college athletics special and driving away fans.

Best way to change course is to implement an 8 team playoff of only conference champions. From each of the remaining 8 FBS conferences. Each of the remaining P4 carve up the Big XII and go to 16 teams with four pods of four teams. Best two teams in the conference play in the CCG.

Gives it a march madness feal where the champion is determined by a scoreboard an not some rigged arbitrary ever changing opinion of a select few insiders.

That also preserves the integrity of the bowl system that gives fans of lesser programs something to look forward too while absorbing losses that prop up the so called brand schools.

p.s. It's also the best way to screw over OUT, the SEC and E$PN.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Is anyone thinking about the fact that all this greed and hypocrisy is killing off the very thing that made college sports great?

They continue down this road and all they will accomplish is killing off the goose that is laying the golden egg. Fans staying connected to their University.

Does an extra 20 or 30 million really make a meaningful difference to Ohio State's athletic department. Texas is proof the answer is no. LHN is also another good example of the disaster that comes with assuming value is only driven by the top brands in a conference.

What are their thoughts on the playoffs?

Personally I would like to see them go to an 8 team playoff where every FBS conference gets an auto bid. Turns it into a mini version of march madness where conference championship games are the first round of a 16 team playoff where the losers go on to play in a NY6 bowl game.

That switches the media focus away from just a few schools to what is going on in each conference. Right now there is no reason for anyone to watch the BTN because it is a foregone conclusion that Ohio State is going to the playoffs. Not because of what a scoreboard says but because they are the only school in the conference that passes some arbitrary ever changing opinion of a select few they call an "eye test."

To get to 8 FBS conferences, that would mean the Big XII gets carved up and FBS Independents get told to join a conference if they want to compete for a national championship.

That makes each P4 a 16 team conference with 4 team pods. 9 game conference schedule with home and aways every year with the other members of your pod and a rotating home and away with 2 teams from the other 3 pods. Set up a tie breaker system that puts the two best teams in the conference in the championship game.

That addresses one of the major challenges facing every AD. Declining attendance at games. Every fanbase has at least 3 away games they can very easily travel too and there will be an away game in every venue in the conference they can travel to every 4 years. Every AD also gets the chance to sell their tickets to three other fanbases every other year and every fanbase in the conference every 4 years.

Conference Champions only playoff bids also restores the value of the bowl system. 2nd best teams in the B1G and Pac 16 will still go to the Rose bowl instead of each conference sending their 4th or 5th best team. Leaving few teams available for lesser bowls.

The current 12 team proposal will kill off the bowl game revenue stream and also give fans of programs with little chance of playing in or winning a national championship a way to celebrate their team and a reason to stay engaged and connected to their school. Keep telling fans bowl games don't matter only further alienates fans.

The thing that makes college athletics great is it enhances the environment of every college campus while establishing and maintaining the connection the University has with its alumni, community, and State.

Engaged fans and alumni are the real lifeblood of every University.

Selling out your fans to the greed of a couple media giants for a few more million in your Athletic Department budget is a darn good way to drive them away

We're all aware that greed is killing college athletics. It's also nothing new - at minimum it goes back to the SEC destroying the CFA to negotiate its own media rights and Texas destroying the SWC.

 

[DarkStar]

We're all aware that greed is killing college athletics. It's also nothing new - at minimum it goes back to the SEC destroying the CFA to negotiate its own media rights and Texas destroying the SWC.

So it's about time we start telling the SEC and OUT to go to hell.