I’ve lived in San Diego for twenty years and some of the hyperbole aboutSDSU in this thread is comical. I don’t think they are a good fit for the Big 12 for several reasons but the uneducated smack talk really makes us look bad as a fan base.
Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)
- Thread starter ISUcyclones11
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I lived there too. College sports just isn't much part of the culture, in my experience, even with a lot of SDSU alums.
The argument that a new stadium/major conference would drive more interest doesn't seem to hold water. The old stadium closed after the 2019 season, and the new one opened for 2022, so we'll look at those years and skip over 2020 (obvious reasons) and 2021 (when the played in LA).
SDSU drew an average of 29,896 in 2019, and an average of 29,225 in 2022. Sure, capacity dropped from 55k at their old stadium to 35k at their new, but they had all of 1 game that drew over 35k (40k, Weber St, 2019). So having a new stadium didn't seem to draw much more interest.
Maybe if they were playing major teams? They drew 28k for BYU in 2019 and 34k for AZ in 2022. The AZ game was the very first game in the new stadium! After 2 years of "home" games outside of SD/no fans allowed, a regional P5 opponent and a brand new stadium and they still couldn't sell it out.
Comparatively, Utah has good fan support currently. ASU, AZ and CO have had good support when they can put decent teams on the field. SDSU has no history of that kind of support, regardless of who they're playing or how the team is doing, because it's not part of the local culture. I don't think playing schools located in states most San Diegans couldn't point out on a map
You were in San Diego “last week”. When no major college sports are in season. Half the city is focusing on the Padres slow start and the other half are taking advantage of the first south swells of the season. And you were able to gather enough info to take an educated stance on the subject? Classic.
Hey you can listen to the other people that live there that are saying the same thing I am. I saw more big ten and even a bunch of USC gear than any SDSU stuff. Go to other areas of the country where college sports matter and it doesn’t matter that it’s the off season. Bars are decked out, flags flying, apparel being worn, chatter about the transfer portal and upcoming season. In SD there is non of that.
Again purely anecdotal but also considering how SDSU could barely fill 60% of their brand new football stadium I don’t think I’m off base.
Agree that you need at least 4 (preferably 6) schools to get a full late night slot to work, but the AZ schools actually prefer late kicks early in the year because it's hot as hell in Arizona when the sun is up. I think it's actually written into their media contract that they can only play late unless they agree to play earlier.
That said, Zona/ASU football isn't a huge draw at any hour, and I'd agree that the late window is being overvalued here. It's supposed to be a major selling point for a PAC deal, and we all see how well that's going right now. One unopposed P5 game then gets good ratings, but two probably wouldn't and 75% of the country is already in bed.
And I'm not sold that ESPN/FOX are going to pony up for SDSU. They don't even get particularly good ratings among MWC schools:
Source
If we ever add an odd number of P5 schools and need to even it up to keep a nine game schedule they're in the conversation, but they're far from a clear choice for that spot.
Curious for the people against San Diego State if you feel similarly about Houston and Cincy? I can’t believe level of fan support is too different? Their attendance is maybe similar/slightly better I believe?
Positive is they’re closer to other big 12 schools but negative is that they don’t allow you to play games in a new time zone like SDSU.
Positive is they’re closer to other big 12 schools but negative is that they don’t allow you to play games in a new time zone like SDSU.
I think if cinci or Houston were being looked at now after the conference is stable they would be getting the same treatment. Houston maybe not since people love being sold on unrealized potential but cinci would 100% be getting scrutinized
We had to add to stay alive back then. We don’t have to and shouldn’t add G5 now. If we had taken SDSU instead of UCF, sure whatever. But there’s a reason they took UCF instead.
The big difference between Houston/Cincy/UCF and SDSU is timing. The B12 was down to 8. The PAC seemed solid and the ACC is locked up until 2035. They took the best of what was available in the G5, which included looking at SDSU. Whatever metrics were used, SDSU came in behind BYU, UCF, Cinci and Houston.
Now the B12 is arguable the #3 conference with it's future pretty much assured for the next decade. The PAC is in disarray and can't get a workable TV deal on the table. The ACC is only stable because nobody's figured out a way around their GOR, but will likely lose 4+ schools when that happens.
The question for the pro-SDSU crowd is where does SDSU rank among the PAC schools? How about if you add in the ACC schools that likely won't get a B10/SEC invite? Why should the B12 take them if there will be better options over the next 10-15 years?
People have to deal with the fact that Utah is probably the best available (or at least next after Arizona) if Oregon and Washington are off table. Utah has value in the same way ISU has value - fans that care and punch over their weight in viewership, attendance, and willingness to seek out and pay for content.
And who gives a **** if their AD and fans have an attitude? They are completely bent out of shape about maybe having to land in the same conference as BYU after getting to look down on them from the PAC for a while. I say great. I want as much hate flowing between teams as possible. That's what a good conference is made of.
So theoretically, what would be the real reason BY would be okay adding SDSU?
Honestly, I trust Yormark. I don't think he's going to do something stupid. That might mean that there is no way SDSU joins, or if they do, maybe Yormark knows something we don't.
We are all being shortsighted on things and assuming stuff is static. When TCU joined the Big 12, they had sustained football success, but they were still only averaging about 30,000 in attendance, even with that success. That has grown a ton since they joined the Big 12, because more people will care about it if teams get more coverage and feel more big time.
If Iowa State had to drop out of the Big 12 and join the AAC, I guarantee our football attendance would drop, our donations would drop, our TV ratings would drop. There no reason to think that a team like SDSU or Fresno State could see a boost for the reverse of that. Whether its enough of a boost to make it worthwhile for the rest of the conference is the reason Yormark is being paid the big bucks and we are all just posting on a message board.
We are all being shortsighted on things and assuming stuff is static. When TCU joined the Big 12, they had sustained football success, but they were still only averaging about 30,000 in attendance, even with that success. That has grown a ton since they joined the Big 12, because more people will care about it if teams get more coverage and feel more big time.
If Iowa State had to drop out of the Big 12 and join the AAC, I guarantee our football attendance would drop, our donations would drop, our TV ratings would drop. There no reason to think that a team like SDSU or Fresno State could see a boost for the reverse of that. Whether its enough of a boost to make it worthwhile for the rest of the conference is the reason Yormark is being paid the big bucks and we are all just posting on a message board.
You are correct on the bolded part. As far as seeing other schools, a lot of our local kids go to USC, Cal, and UCLA. A lot of LA people move to San Diego. We are a major city, you are going to see schools from other cities represented. But you are wrong about seeing more of those schools than SDSU. Plain and simple, wrong. Stop passing off your few days of experience as some sort of valuable insight.
A large chunk of that is they sit right in between a bunch of other big 12 members and in DFW (so easy to fly in) so they were always going to see a big attendance bump from visiting fans if nothing else.
It can be pretty hot during the first half of the FB season in AZ, maybe the fans would prefer those late games.?
I think UCF and Cincinnati got the nod because their FB programs are on another level compared to SDSU. Cincy's been to four BCS/NY6 bowls in the last 15 years including a playoff appearance. UCF's been to three in the last 10 with two wins, including going undefeated with the handicap of Scott Frost being their coach. SDSU's high point in that span is finishing 25th in the AP poll a couple times. For schools that don't have huge fanbases the ability to drive interest through their play is important. To me they compare more closely to Houston (good FB, great BB, questionable viewership), but Houston's a little bit better at basically everything. I think the conference got the expansion decisions right.
I'd rather have WSU or even the Beavers join, they'd be a much more attractive add than SDSU, IMO.
Both in PT zone.
Every other year they could have a home Marquee match up with an in-state rival.
Established fan bases.
Both are cultural fits within the Big12.
I'd say WSU would be the preferred option. More populace state, most alumni live in Seattle. WSU already has good to very good TV numbers.
Downside of the two State U's compared to SDSU is recruiting grounds and POSSIBLE future growth.
I'm against them all. I would trade UCF or Houston for a Pac or ACC school in a heartbeat. We just didn't have the option. Now we do. I'm a little more sympathetic to Cincy given their level of success and prior membership in the Big East.
Plus, those schools aren't the geographic outlier that SDSU or Fresno would be.
With all due respect, and I mean that sincerely, I'm not particularly interested in a Big 10 fan's opinion about whether San Diego State should be included in Big 12 expansion.
