I agree with this to an extent, but I don't think it's a big deal for most recruits. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think a player of Vaughn's caliber wouldn't be worshipped anywhere he went.
Recruit Lists v2.0
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I agree with this to an extent, but I don't think it's a big deal for most recruits. And you're kidding yourself if you don't think a player of Vaughn's caliber wouldn't be worshipped anywhere he went.
The Ejim comparison is a good one for Abu IMO. Imagine Melvin with two extra inches of height, longer arms, and a bit more athleticism. It's easy to see why Abu is so highly sought after.
He wouldn't be, and I'm not kidding myself. If you look at any major blue blood program, they are big fans of them the year they are there... and then they are forgotten about the year after. Key point that someone made earlier: Harrison Barnes. It's like he wasn't even in college, and he was of similar quality to Vaughn.
On the contrary White and Brackins are still mentioned regularly by Iowa State fans.
I do agree that it is not a big deal for Most recruits... but Vaughn has already shown he loves the limelight. Won't decide on a college until Spring, and I don't blame him. Being at Iowa State his name would get mentioned all the time in a local context. It wouldn't be as much national attention as say a Kentucky or North Carolina would get you, unless Iowa State starts to crack that top 25 with him. But who's to say at Kentucky or North Carolina, he would be the one that they talked about? It could easily be any of the other players on the team... at Iowa State he would very likely be in the headline every time, just look at Niang and White the last 2 years.
When Espn mentions Iowa State White and Niang are mentioned in the same breath every time.
Zach Braziller @NYPost_Brazille 8m Iowa State offered New Heights and Iona Prep sharpshooter Matt Ryan, per @ChrisAlesi.
Matt Ryan - Yahoo! Sports
Some pretty good offers already...
Matt Ryan - Yahoo! Sports
Some pretty good offers already...
The thing is, it's a lot easier for an Iowa State fan to see that rationale than a pretty neutral recruit who's also getting told by coaches like Williams and Calipari that they're name will get said on ESPN every 15 seconds if they go to UNC and UK, respectively.
2014 PG Shavar Newkirk is off the board to St. Joseph's. ISU had offer out to him.
2014 PG Shavar Newkirk commits to St. Joseph’s | CollegeBasketballTalk
2014 PG Shavar Newkirk commits to St. Joseph’s | CollegeBasketballTalk
Barnes was at least percieved higher caliber. He was more like wiggens. Hell the president watched his school choice announcement.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Guys are not forgotten at the big programs. They are tied into the program's history. The whole "they get forgotten" thing is a myth that needs to go away.
The majority of kids want to have a shot at a National Championship, and be on nat'l TV with A-team broadcast crew. They're much more likely to be talked about on ESPN, and have weekly columns/ blog posts written about their play by Jay Bilas, Gary Parrish, etc.
I get what you're saying CyKings, but I don't imagine "local celebrity" is high on their list when you consider all the factors. Their goals are to win championships, get to the NBA, and get paid.
...that said, Im feeling pretty good about our standing with RV. Calipari, little Pitino, and ole Roy all spent good parts of this past live period in Orlando or Atlantic City, while it sounds like Fred saw nearly all (if not all) of his games in Vegas. To top it all off, depending on how this year goes - I think we could be pretty good in '14-'15 even without Vaughn. So it's not like he would be coming to some scrubby team (just to acknowledge we aren't exactly chopped liver).
I get what you're saying CyKings, but I don't imagine "local celebrity" is high on their list when you consider all the factors. Their goals are to win championships, get to the NBA, and get paid.
...that said, Im feeling pretty good about our standing with RV. Calipari, little Pitino, and ole Roy all spent good parts of this past live period in Orlando or Atlantic City, while it sounds like Fred saw nearly all (if not all) of his games in Vegas. To top it all off, depending on how this year goes - I think we could be pretty good in '14-'15 even without Vaughn. So it's not like he would be coming to some scrubby team (just to acknowledge we aren't exactly chopped liver).
Yes. They build halls with all their donor money and put up banners of past players to go to the NBA. People remember them every time they come to a game, or even watch NBA highlights on S.C.
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I'm not saying they'd be completely forgotten, I'm arguing that they wouldn't be remembered as well. Yes they are tied into the programs history, but if I were fred I would be arguing that in Ames at Iowa State you can be the start of that history. The start of the change to prominence. You can be the "missing piece" that will help make a program elite... rather than being just being a part of the already elite program.
I do have a fan bias of being an ISU grad, however I am merely offering an argument that Fred could try and use. Whether it is a "myth" or not that "they get forgotten" is irrelevant. Why not make a recruit have that in the back of their mind, when they are choosing schools? Even if it's not true.
What's more important is what you say to a recruit and what they believe and what they want.
Never said they have better memories, all I've said is that a guy who is of top caliber talent would be remembered as an individual more in my opinion. Where as top caliber talent at a KU or a Kentucky would be another name in a long list. Yes they can preach legacy of the school, and espn time, and you will be seen nationally more there. But a counter argument is that you will likely be a more memorable name at Iowa State. At least by the Iowa State fan base. He wouldn't be 1 of 100 greats that were at Kentucky, he would be 1 of 10 at Iowa State. It's a lot easier to remember 10 names, than it is to remember 100.
People are being so particular today about it. I'm merely offering an opinion, if I were Fred and I were taking on the blue bloods I would try and push that angle. Whether it's true or not, why not make the recruit think it's true. Is it a long shot, yes.
I would also push that Hoiberg has several NBA contacts. So does Calicrappy and Williams and Self... but Hoiberg is a household name in many areas as well. Especially around Minnesota. That's why we are still in the hunt for him and why we still get mentions when he does interviews. Are we a long-shot to get Vaughn absolutely... but i feel like if we have a solid year, we have a shot at landing him.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
I'd push all these things as well, but you're dealing with high school guys. They aren't renowned for their long-term visionary abilities. They deal with what they've seen most easily.
I don't think players that go blue blood programs are so much forgotten as they are under-appreciated. Think about this: Harrison Barnes. Could have played 2 years at ISU, led the team in scoring, could have even been tops or near the top in all of NCAA (look who he would have been playing with at the time). He could have had an even bigger impact on ISU's turnaround. The 2011-12 season with Royce which got us back into the tourney for the first time in years could have been a Final 4 season for Iowa State, and fans would have remembered it always. He would have been a star.
Instead, he was just another face at UNC. He played rather passively in their offense, and no game that I watched did he ever really "take over". UNC was good while he was there, but never better than a Sweet 16 team. Players like this are a dime a dozen at UNC, and their fans watch players like Barnes leave their school wondering what the hype was all about. I'm not so much into the psychology of the sport, but sometimes I wonder if Harrison left a lot of potential unfulfilled when he left Ames to play for old man Roy.
Another thing to think about: Kentucky turns 3-5 players over to the NBA on a yearly basis, including 3 from this years NIT team. Do you think any one of those 3 guys who were all once top 50 recruits will be remembered by Kentucky fans 5-10 years from now? I have my doubts. Compare it to if they had chosen to play at Iowa State, Oregon State, or say Alabama? They would have been standouts, and idolized by their fans. That's all I think CyKings is trying to say.
Instead, he was just another face at UNC. He played rather passively in their offense, and no game that I watched did he ever really "take over". UNC was good while he was there, but never better than a Sweet 16 team. Players like this are a dime a dozen at UNC, and their fans watch players like Barnes leave their school wondering what the hype was all about. I'm not so much into the psychology of the sport, but sometimes I wonder if Harrison left a lot of potential unfulfilled when he left Ames to play for old man Roy.
Another thing to think about: Kentucky turns 3-5 players over to the NBA on a yearly basis, including 3 from this years NIT team. Do you think any one of those 3 guys who were all once top 50 recruits will be remembered by Kentucky fans 5-10 years from now? I have my doubts. Compare it to if they had chosen to play at Iowa State, Oregon State, or say Alabama? They would have been standouts, and idolized by their fans. That's all I think CyKings is trying to say.
