Recruiting: An idea regarding Joel Lanning

VeloClone

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2010
48,460
39,267
113
Brooklyn Park, MN
I know this is blasphemy in this day and age of ultra specialization in college football, but who is to say that a player can't both be a regular on the defense and a package specialist on offense? I'm sure the practice for such a package wouldn't entail a huge amount of practice time and during this time he is not likely to be a starter at a defensive position so he is probably not going to be missing out on snaps with the first team D.

It also might give the D a few fits about what he is going to do with the ball. Despite what we are coached, players tend to not think of players wearing numbers in the 20's, 30's and 40's (sorry, Flutie) as legitimate passing threats. They also don't look for a lot of passes out of someone they know of as a LB or DB.

Just a thought.
 

Luth4Cy

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2012
5,520
134
63
Ames, IA
Interesting idea. I think with this recruiting class we will start to see more people switching positions and learning new roles. Especially with guys like Lanning and Webster that may not be needed at their traditional offensive positions but instead as short yardage guys, or maybe in some other package.
 

cygrads

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2007
4,969
2,728
113
Altoona, IA
Am I the only one who thinks that the "Belldozer" is the most overrated "weapon" in the country? He's completely one-dimensional, attempting 17 passes in 15 games, and really not that hard to stop. I really don't think teams need to spend a lot of time preparing for him. Just watch where the motion back goes, that's where Bell is going to run.

Agree. I think OU realized they had a shortcoming in short yardage situations and they have Bell so they use him but to me this should have been a short term fix. The fact they still use this package is evidence their offensive coordinator hasn't been able to figure out why they aren't successful on short yardage with their starting QB.
 

GoSTATE71

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2008
4,235
615
113
Lanning is 6'2 , Klein is what 6'5? Theres a huge difference in size, the BellDozer is like 6'6 and 250+. 6'2 225 seems pretty typical for a college QB nowadays.
 

jaretac

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2006
7,642
337
83
Frigidaire
I like Kstate style just because I like that kind of football. I don't like ISU trying to re-identify ourselves every time a team finds a way to win with a "new" kind of offense.

The Big 12 was overran with quick smaller QB's back in the mid part of last decade. Putting them in the shotgun made sense because it backed them up so they could see what was happening. Imagine Chase Daniels always in the I scheme, he would have been killed. What happened, people saw it working at a number of schools and tried to replicate it. Some places it worked and some it didn't, just like all styles of play.

Problem is that changing an offensive scheme because it is working other places is like putting lipstick on a pig. Often it doesn't correct the lack of talent issue and many times you have players that work ok in one system and are completely out of place in another. If you look at the big names in football and coaching, you don't see major changes in how they run their offense through the years. Sure they will throw in some wrinkles and experiment, but their style remains and they continue to have success. They have their style, they recruit for that style.

The only times schools should change their style is if for some reason the wrong players were being recruited and you have to adapt the offense to fit the skills of the players or if the school has decided to completely change their identity. In the case of the later, prepare for it to take years of recruiting and bad results before the offense final establishes themselves.

This is what we have been dealing with at ISU. To make changes such as putting a few plays under center is fine. To suddenly implement a power running scheme is not. KState and OU both have lines built more for power running, but Rhoads has intentionally recruited players for the line that are maybe a little smaller but more mobile (more like the Missouri's). As you have seen, with that we also have recruited shiftier backs and receivers who can beat one on one coverage.

I don't think CW is talking about a complete break from what we are doing, I think he is talking about more like what OU does, in which I have a problem with taking a 4 star big body and using him only for a play or two a game. I've not seen Joel play, if he has some speed and can throw the ball at a college level than I have no problem with him trying to work within our system and maybe he can do something. I just don't want to see us trying to put a square peg in a round hole in hopes to replicate something that probably won't work well with our system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby45

VeloClone

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2010
48,460
39,267
113
Brooklyn Park, MN
Agree. I think OU realized they had a shortcoming in short yardage situations and they have Bell so they use him but to me this should have been a short term fix. The fact they still use this package is evidence their offensive coordinator hasn't been able to figure out why they aren't successful on short yardage with their starting QB.

This may be, but there might be another part of the equation. Perhaps they like the numbers mismatches they get with having another powerful running threat in the backfield and they aren't comfortable risking injury to their "franchise" QB in this role. If another player can fulfill that role why not use him and protect your draft pick QB?
 

NickTheGreat

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jan 17, 2012
10,803
4,773
113
Central Iowa
I don't think Lanning could be even close to what the Colin Klein is. I see literally 0 parallels.
 

theyork

Well-Known Member
Aug 6, 2009
1,466
42
48
43
hedgesville, wv
This is going in Monday Musings today but I thought it could spark some quality conversation on the board. What do you guys think?

I had a radio conversation on 1460 KXNO’s “Miller & Brinson†program earlier this week that got me thinking. Ken Miller, who has a football mind that I respect greatly, threw out the idea of Ankeny High School quarterback and Iowa State commitment Joel Lanning becoming a Collin Klein type QB (that style - not putting pressure on the kid to be that good) for the Cyclones in the future. Lanning, who Rivals.com lists at 6-foot-2, 200-pounds, is a winner. He’s a four-year starter at Ankeny (which doesn’t happen very often). After watching Oklahoma use Blake Bell this past weekend, Miller’s idea resonated with me. I got to thinking, “why not use Lanning in this type of a role?†during Saturday’s contest.

I’m just thinking out loud here. But just imagine how much time Iowa State probably spent preparing for the “Belldozer†package last week. A wrinkle like that is a big weapon and Iowa State can use any of those right about now. This one has some potential in my opinion.

6-2 200lb is far from any kind of dozer. steele jantz is and inch taller and 25lbs heavier and looks like a fairly small qb out there. why aren't we using him as a dozer then? i know this was all hypothetical, but if those measurements are anywhere near accurate, he has a long way to go before he's a bell or klein.

bell is 6'6" 254
klein is 6'5" 225

gotta think their height and weight have a lot to do with their success in vision and tackle breaking.
 

theyork

Well-Known Member
Aug 6, 2009
1,466
42
48
43
hedgesville, wv
I agree that he is probably bigger than the 6'2" 200 he is listed at. I would guess about 6'3" 220. Tebow was a package QB his first year too and that ended up working out alright. I would love to see him as a package guy his first year then full time QB after that. I think he throws it a bit better than Klein probably did at that age so he wouldn't be as much of a project as many think.

also florida/ou offensive line>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>isu offensive line.
 

4Cyclones

Member
Sep 10, 2009
486
16
18
Ankeny
Ive seen Lanning on numerous occasions and he is bigger than 205#. 6'3" and 220 is not a stretch. He ran over two 170# corners last weekend. His accuracy is very good. Granted he is playing against HS defense, but that does not count accuracy. I thought he played pretty smart too, in regards reads and also when to just throw the pass away. He has a quick release and very strong arm as well.
 

Luth4Cy

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2012
5,520
134
63
Ames, IA
Lanning is 6'2 , Klein is what 6'5? Theres a huge difference in size, the BellDozer is like 6'6 and 250+. 6'2 225 seems pretty typical for a college QB nowadays.

There is a size difference, but remember how good Yancy is at adding weight to players. Even though Lanning is shorter, I wouldn't be surprised to see him 240+ after his redshirt year.
 

Tre4ISU

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Dec 30, 2008
28,210
9,323
113
Estherville
I don't think Lanning could be even close to what the Colin Klein is. I see literally 0 parallels.

Collin Klein would have trouble in our system. He isn't an every system QB. He's very good at what he does, don't get me wrong. I compare him to Denard Robinson. They are both great at running the football (In diffrerent ways obviously). What that does to a defense completely opens up passing windows. As a Michigan fan, whenever I have watched Denard the past couple years I have wanted to cry. They have tried to turn him into something he is not which is a west coast QB. They don't use his tools to make the passing game easier. Yes, they use him to run the football in a similar way but they don't use him to make safeties do stupid things. Klein is similar. He gets a bunch of easy throws because you have to account for his running ability first and foremost. In the spread, you either need that threat or you need a guy like Robert Griffin or Wes Lunt who can throw it very well. We don't have either at this point. I am now of the opinion that you pick your best throwing QB and if the option game doesn't suite him, you dump it. If your guy happens to be an effective option guy, use it. Or, if you have a once in a decade guy like Denard you can run a lot of option/QB runs.
 

cybsball20

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2006
12,735
438
83
Des Moines, IA
I don't think Lanning could be even close to what the Colin Klein is. I see literally 0 parallels.

Curious, did you see Klein play alot in HS? NOBODY is comparing Lanning now to Klien now. We are pojecting what he COULD be... Hell, I went from 6'4" 185 this time my senior year to 6'5" 225, yes I even grew an inch...
 
Last edited:

DeereClone

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2009
8,281
9,648
113
Lanning won't be a package player, he'll be the legit starting QB for us in a few years.
 

NickTheGreat

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jan 17, 2012
10,803
4,773
113
Central Iowa
Curious, did you see Klein play alot in HS? NOBODY is comparing Lanning now to Klien now. We are pojecting what he COULD be... Hell, I went from 6'4" 185 this time my senior year to 6'5" 225, yes I even grew an inch...

I saw Klein play just as much as I saw Lanning play in HS :jimlad:

I just don't know if I see Lanning as our QB at all. And if he is, I don't think he's the big bruiser type of running QB that Klein is.

And I'd wager that if Lanning did grow 3 inches and 25 pounds between now and this summer, he certainly wouldn't stay at QB, if on offense at all
 

DeereClone

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2009
8,281
9,648
113
Yes, in a few years... But I think what some of us are saying is that he COULD be a package player until he is ready to take the reins full time...

You are saying in one post he needs time to grow to play the "belldozer" type position and in this post you say after a few years he would be the starter but could be the "belldozer" position right away.

I don't think he will be big enough to only play a package player. I also think he will be too good of a traditional QB to play him like that.
 

cybsball20

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2006
12,735
438
83
Des Moines, IA
You are saying in one post he needs time to grow to play the "belldozer" type position and in this post you say after a few years he would be the starter but could be the "belldozer" position right away.

I don't think he will be big enough to only play a package player. I also think he will be too good of a traditional QB to play him like that.

No, I am saying he is already bigger than listed. I have seen him, he CERTAINLY not 200lbs. From now to the start of the season it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility for him to be 6'3" 235. At that size, being faster than both Klein and Bell he could certainly be a dangerous "package" QB for a year before taking over full time.
 

khardbored

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2012
10,238
7,581
113
Middle of the Midwest
This is what we have been dealing with at ISU. To make changes such as putting a few plays under center is fine. To suddenly implement a power running scheme is not. KState and OU both have lines built more for power running, but Rhoads has intentionally recruited players for the line that are maybe a little smaller but more mobile (more like the Missouri's). As you have seen, with that we also have recruited shiftier backs and receivers who can beat one on one coverage.

To whom are you referring? I say we could really use some "shiftier" backs and WR's who can beat coverage right about now!!!