On thing about Georges's defense I noticed when Jameel was out, it actually was pretty good on a 5 when he wasn't worrying about fouls.
Some scouting on Virginia from a Hoo
- Thread starter Hoondog
- Start date
Jacktronic
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Another Wahoo here. Most of our losses to teams we really should have beaten (i.e. Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech and Florida State) were because we came out slow, got down and never really recovered fully. Especially early in the year we had a tendency to come out slow in games. In addition to those losses in many of our early wins we did the same but went on a run (or multiple runs) at some point and later put the game away.
It seemed like guys were trying to feel the game out a bit more than take it to the other team early. Brogdon especially seemed willing to facilitate other guys and try to get them going before taking on more of a leading role as the game went on. Frankly, early in the season we really struggled, especially on the road and against weaker teams, to have the fire that you need. Brogdon has done a much better job as the season has progressed of being aggressive early on and the rest of the team has generally followed suit, coming out with more fire and ready to play harder from the start.
I think some of the slow starts this year early were due to the emphasis on freedom of movement. With a team that is defense first and generally plays a pretty physical game, freedom of movement was a bit of an adjustment. The calls in the early season games across the country seems to be pretty inconsistent it took some time for our guys to get adjusted and the refs to somewhat even out what they were calling.
Our team has also been used to going on at least one big run seemingly every game the last couple years. With our D we would often string together 4, 6, 8 stops in a row, the other team would have a 5+ minute scoring drought and we would have a double digit run (what some referred to as a “Cavalanche”). Our D, especially early, has not been quite a good this year as the last two in stringing together long stretches of continual stops so we have had fewer of those significant double digit runs to take over a game.
Other losses (i.e. Duke, UNC, Miami) have come to really good teams and are much more a result of them just out executing or hitting shots more often than we did. You will hear a lot of bitterness about that Duke loss because Grayson “the Tripper” Allen very clearly traveled on his game winning shot, but they also played better than us for big stretches in that game. As you know with Kansas - the favorite son treatment of these programs gets pretty old.
While our D has been a step behind the last two years, even if we go cold for a time, it keeps the games pretty close. With out ability to string together stops, we really have never felt out of a game. Over the last three year, we have only lost two games by more than two possessions (FSU this year was a 7 point game, Tennessee in 2013 was a 30 point blowout). Every other loss has been 6 points or less, the majority possession games. Especially since we have done better in the second half of basically every game this year. Our defense tends to wear on other teams, especially weaker teams and we have had many games that were close at half which were not close at all in the end. Stronger, more mature teams (like ISU) are obviously less likely to get overly frustrated or discouraged if they have a few blank trips.
It is clear from ISU record that you all are never out of a game either – with every loss this year being 10 points or less (and many a single possession). Knowing this record for both teams means that this game is very likely to still be in the balance in the last minute or two and that neither team is likely to fold late. If the final is more than 10 points either way I will be pretty shocked.
It seemed like guys were trying to feel the game out a bit more than take it to the other team early. Brogdon especially seemed willing to facilitate other guys and try to get them going before taking on more of a leading role as the game went on. Frankly, early in the season we really struggled, especially on the road and against weaker teams, to have the fire that you need. Brogdon has done a much better job as the season has progressed of being aggressive early on and the rest of the team has generally followed suit, coming out with more fire and ready to play harder from the start.
I think some of the slow starts this year early were due to the emphasis on freedom of movement. With a team that is defense first and generally plays a pretty physical game, freedom of movement was a bit of an adjustment. The calls in the early season games across the country seems to be pretty inconsistent it took some time for our guys to get adjusted and the refs to somewhat even out what they were calling.
Our team has also been used to going on at least one big run seemingly every game the last couple years. With our D we would often string together 4, 6, 8 stops in a row, the other team would have a 5+ minute scoring drought and we would have a double digit run (what some referred to as a “Cavalanche”). Our D, especially early, has not been quite a good this year as the last two in stringing together long stretches of continual stops so we have had fewer of those significant double digit runs to take over a game.
Other losses (i.e. Duke, UNC, Miami) have come to really good teams and are much more a result of them just out executing or hitting shots more often than we did. You will hear a lot of bitterness about that Duke loss because Grayson “the Tripper” Allen very clearly traveled on his game winning shot, but they also played better than us for big stretches in that game. As you know with Kansas - the favorite son treatment of these programs gets pretty old.
While our D has been a step behind the last two years, even if we go cold for a time, it keeps the games pretty close. With out ability to string together stops, we really have never felt out of a game. Over the last three year, we have only lost two games by more than two possessions (FSU this year was a 7 point game, Tennessee in 2013 was a 30 point blowout). Every other loss has been 6 points or less, the majority possession games. Especially since we have done better in the second half of basically every game this year. Our defense tends to wear on other teams, especially weaker teams and we have had many games that were close at half which were not close at all in the end. Stronger, more mature teams (like ISU) are obviously less likely to get overly frustrated or discouraged if they have a few blank trips.
It is clear from ISU record that you all are never out of a game either – with every loss this year being 10 points or less (and many a single possession). Knowing this record for both teams means that this game is very likely to still be in the balance in the last minute or two and that neither team is likely to fold late. If the final is more than 10 points either way I will be pretty shocked.
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Morris > Perrantes
Thomas > Hall
Nader < Brogdon
Niang > Wilkins
McKay ? Gill
Burton >= UV 6th man
Prohm < Bennett
I understand not everything is individual performances and matchups, it's the better team that will win, but this is still fun to discuss.
Thomas > Hall
Nader < Brogdon
Niang > Wilkins
McKay ? Gill
Burton >= UV 6th man
Prohm < Bennett
I understand not everything is individual performances and matchups, it's the better team that will win, but this is still fun to discuss.
Jacktronic
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The "who would start" argument is usually a silly one, but especially so in this instance. If Freddie was coaching, it would undoubtedly be the best offensive players, and therefore lean toward ISU players, and if Bennett was coaching, it would be heavier with Virginia players because he values defense more. I leave Coach Prohm out of that argument because the team as it sits was built with Fred's philosophy in mind, and he might be a little more balanced.
I'd love to have Brogdon or Gill on any of my teams.
We are pretty used to not necessarily having the best players in one-on-one comparisons. Obviously with the number of Burger Boys that UNC and Duke get (and to a lesser extent NCST - for whatever reason) in the ACC you often look at the two rosters and think that their individual players are better than UVa's. Our success has come from having guys that know their role really well and play together as a team really well.
Seems like ISU is somewhat similar. Obviously Niang is a complete stud, but with the players teams like Kansas recruit, I am sure you are used to looking as a game and thinking that one - on - one you don't necessarily have the superior talent at most positions, but as a team, you work better together.
Also, while I think you are probably right that Burton is better than our 6th man (though Tobey has been a much better player the last few weeks) we have more guys that play (Nolte, Shayok, Thompson) and this can throw a bit more variety out there as the situation may require. Seems that you all are pretty thin this year, especially in the post.
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Maybe if you were comparing recruiting rankings vs. recruiting rankings, but I think most ISU fans would say that this year's starting 5 compares well to pretty much anyone in the country. You guys must get this with Brogdon as well: the experience he brings more than matches up with some 5-star recruit who might have a higher ceiling, but is going to hit in the NBA, not the college game. Hell, many of the one-and-done types that we end up seeing at Kansas barely see the floor for that team.
We never got tired of kicking Iowa's arse........and apparently neither did the rest of the Big 10 not to mention Villinova.
We've got a new coach but this team was schooled in NBA style ball by Fred Hoiberg. That's the biggest difference between VA ball and ISU. Think NBA.
Some pretty good contributions from Virginia fans on the board the past couple days, excluding the usage of "Burger Boys."
Honestly... it sucks to lose to VT and it isn't fun to lose to any team in our conference that you know is inferior, but I have honestly grown to understand and believe in Tony's system and how long it takes, first an individual to acclimate to and then for the team to begin to play as one. Those early losses I fully attribute to that. Hopefully you will see and appreciate how this packline works and how these guys MUST work as one. The piece of it that really amazes me and I've watched it plenty of times is how they anticipate where the next pass will go and are moving while the ball is in the air. Do they anticipate 100% accurately? No, but the times you see a complete breakdown because someone just totally moved wrong are few and far between. I like the other Hoo who used the "ameba" analogy. Unlike the Syracuse zone this defense does not have a rigid movement. You will see us double in the low post on one and play and maybe not on the same play 3 more times in the game. I'm a football guy (but we have sucked in football for a while), so over the past 6+ years, I've really enjoyed watching and learning. Tony was the best thing to happen to UVA basketball in a LONG time.
Obviously not your fault since you just joined, but you gave way too long of an answer to a jab at Iowa players.
Jacktronic
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Well, yes that is the joke. But it was moreso directed to the second sentence of 1LuckyWahoo's post above mine (#103). "Our losses are because we played poorly, not because the other team outplayed us." Fans like that all over I guess.
Fair enough. Kinda like the opposite of some of our fans, who think that teams coincidentally become full of amazing shooters when they play us, but don't think it has anything to do with the way we were playing defense earlier in the year.
Oh, they outplayed us no doubt - but those three losses in particular are teams that we should not lose to if we are playing our B to B+ game for the entire night, no matter how well they play. We didn't play FSU again but later beat VT by 18 and GT by 20 in games that were not close. Duke, UNC, Miami - those are teams that we lost to because they are legitimately good on a regular basis and we needed to have our A game to win . . . if we were going to win at all.
Nevermind - you knew what it meant.
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Maybe he could pick up a foul sitting on the bench... ala Tim Duncan & Joey Crawford.
BTW.... my initial post was not intended to suggest Niang rests on D. I can't honestly assess his play since I've mainly seen highlights. It is just what I've seen from other "Player of the year" types. They average 30+ but play bullfighter defense.
