The BCS

jaretac

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2006
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Frigidaire
Re: The BXS

Well if it's important to you that the system is fair, you better stop watching college football.

The entire way it's structured isn't fair. The conferences aren't aligned to make it fair. The schedules aren't aligned to make it fair. The money isn't structured to make it fair. Nothing about it is fair. And without MAJOR changes, it won't be.

Thanks for agreeing with me.[/sarcasm]

If we are going to put that much stock into a national champ, we need to work on making the decision fair and unbiased. If we are going to keep college football like it is, we need to completely do away with the "national title" idea and just have bowl games that mean virtually nothing. I don't see them eliminating the national title game, therefore we need to do more to improve the decision process- if that means playoff, that's how we should go.

Fact, college football has changed. The national title used to be virtually nothing in college football because there really wasn't a national title. It used to be that college football reporters would talk about the games, now they talk about the road to the BCS. The BCS has drawn more attention to the national title and as long as the national title is relevant, they will continue to make changes to the current system till we have a playoff of some type. Making a separate championship game is the first big step in starting a playoff.

Mark my words, as long was we have a "national champ" we will move closer and closer to a playoff until we have one.
 
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jumbopackage

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Sep 18, 2007
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Re: The BXS

Thanks for agreeing with me.[/sarcasm]

If we are going to put that much stock into a national champ, we need to work on making the decision fair and unbiased. If we are going to keep college football like it is, we need to completely do away with the "national title" idea and just have bowl games that mean virtually nothing. I don't see them eliminating the national title game, therefore we need to do more to improve the decision process- if that means playoff, that's how we should go.

Fact, college football has changed. The national title used to be virtually nothing in college football because there really wasn't a national title. It used to be that college football reporters would talk about the games, now they talk about the road to the BCS. The BCS has drawn more attention to the national title and as long as the national title is relevant, they will continue to make changes to the current system till we have a playoff of some type. Making a separate championship game is the first big step in starting a playoff.

Mark my words, as long was we have a "national champ" we will move closer and closer to a playoff until we have one.

And mark mine, as long as the BCS conferences remain intact, as-is, we will never have much more than a +1 game.

The decision cannot be fair and unbiased because the SYSTEM is not fair and unbiased. In EVERY other sport that has a playoff, teams play largely equal schedules and have largely equal resources.

The only example otherwise would be college basketball, and, in that case, they have a much longer season than college football, and have a MUCH larger playoff than any other sport to compensate. There is a clear path to the tournament for every single school in Division 1 in that case.

A playoff is only the answer if you can find a way to make it legitimate. And the ONLY way to make it legitimate is to fundamentally alter the landscape of FBS Football. There is really no other way to do it. You have to take the polls out of it. You have to take rankings out of it. You have to have a clear path for each and every one of the 119 teams to make it to the playoff regardless of conference affiliation, schedule, tradition or polls. And it is simply impossible to do, currently, with 119 teams playing 12 games - and only 3 or 4 out of conference.

I honestly don't think that you would like the system that would come out of that. You'd have to ignore conferences almost entirely, or you'd have to throw them all in a hat and shuffle them. Traditional rivalries would have to go away, and even if they stuck around, they would mean virtually nothing. Schools would lose the ability to manage their own schedules. And all of this just so that you could have a quasi-legitimate tournament champion at the end of the season.

Anything less than that, and it's virtually impossible to create a level playing field for every team, every year. And without a level playing field, it's impossible for you to tell me that you have a legitimate, representative tournament field.

And if you have a playoff field that is not legitimate, than you have a championship that is not legitimate.

And then you're back in the same boat as we are currently, except you've pretty much changed everything there is to love about college football.

The simplistic alternatives really end you up in no better shape than we are in currently, either, and really open up more questions than they do answers.

The BCS, flawed as it may be, has given us some tremendous football games over the years. And, more often than not, given us a chance to see the two best teams in the nation play each other at the end of the year. That is it's entire purpose in life, and I think it does an admirable job, overall. Sure, a +1 game would maybe help from time to time, as in 2003 or 2004, but, overall, it gives most legitimate title contenders a clear path to a championship - win all your games.

We have a de-facto playoff as is. It starts on week 1, and goes until the BCS championship. Win out, and you're in. You control your own destiny. All you have to do is win every game, every week. You can't slip up against Oregon State or Stanford if you're USC. You can't go to USC and get your butt handed to you if you're Ohio State. You can't lose at Iowa if you're Penn State. You can't lose at Texas Tech if you're Texas, and you can't lose at Oklahoma if you're Texas tech.

All you have to do is win all your games.
If you lose one, well, you lose control of your destiny. Is it still possible to make it? Sure, but you're now subject to the whims of the voters and polls - and more importantly other teams. It's sort of a second chance.

I MUCH prefer that to being able to lose 2 or 3 or even 4 games and make it to a playoff. Who would even care about the first 6 or 7 weeks of the season? Who would care that Appy State beat Michigan? Or that Ohio State went to USC and got creamed?

The system we have gives us excitement every week, in every game. I'll take 14 or 15 weeks of excitement over 2 or 3.
 

weR138

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Feb 20, 2008
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Re: The BXS

I think most of us want to see it change from having the regular season as a playoff to having a regular season and a playoff. Being the "National Champs" is meaning more to people and teams now days and not having a clear way to decide a national champ is the problem with the BCS.

It is a matter of preceptive. You probably think the most important thing ISU can accomplish is to win the Big12 and get into a well know bowl game, I think the best thing ISU can accomplish in getting into a national title game and therefore it is important to me that the system works fairly. No matter how much we debate it niether of us will change our minds

Yes, you're correct. This is my position. Specifically I want to go to the Orange Bowl (the traditional Big 8 tie in). But in the current system winning the B12 could put us in the title game. Dare to dream!!!
 

TedKumsher

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Aug 30, 2007
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OK -- first thing. We all need to step back and start at the beginning (that sounds pompous, doesn't it?).

At the end of the NCAA football season, what do you really want? There are so many compromises it's difficult to even list them, much less define them and then figure out what we really want. Do you want to know the "BEST" team? Do you want to know who can win a big tournament? Do you want edge-of-your-seat excitement? Do you want sterile data-driven computer rankings?

Basketball is a good example. The nat. champ. by definition is NOT (necessarily) the best team in the nation. It's the team that wins the big tournament. That's the definition of a Cinderella story right there -- everyone knows they're not the BEST team, but they're beating teams that ARE better than them because -- well -- that's what happens in a single elimination tournament.

How can you determine the BEST team? Well, everyone plays EVERYONE enough times to establish a statistically accurate profile and 1 team establishes a statistically significant lead over everyone else. But then you're back to the sterile data-driven computer thing.

What about the NBA/MLB playoffs? Best in a series? Well, we're getting closer, but don't you think you should need to have at least a 2 game lead (similar to sets in tennis)? Not to mention home field advantage.

But I digress. In NCAA Div. 1 FBS football, what do you really want? Compromise with what's realistically an option.

To me the biggest knock on a single elimination tournament is "Any Given Sunday" errr Saturday err whatever day. There just aren't 8 or 16 teams that can be arguably considered the BEST in the nation. Too much ability to lose for no good reason and you end up with 2 teams that everyone knows aren't the best playing for the nat. champ. This is different from basketball, where there are enough teams and enough talent that any of a dozen teams can be seriously considered for the title of BEST. Overwhelm the tournament with enough extra rounds that nobody can complain that the BEST team didn't even make it to the tournament.

The biggest knock on the bowl system? To me it's the fact that it's not in any way designed to find the BEST team, or even the team that wins a big tournament. It's just a bunch of (theoretically) good games matching up good teams that didn't play (most of the time) during the regular season. We are obsessed with the idea of finding out who's #1, so the BCS as it stands today was born.

Would a +1 system help? Probably. But even then how do you do it? Is it designed as a 4 team playoff or do you just do your bowl games however and THEN decide who the top 2 teams are? Both methods are highly open to controversy. As hard as it is to decide the top 2 teams, it's not going to be easier deciding which teams are the top 4. #5 will be howling. If you don't pick 4 teams, then the bowl matchups will inspire controversy.

I haven't even started on the concept of BEST vs. CONSISTENT. You can have a team that just has 1 bad day (or 1 great player injured for 1 game) and that's just too bad -- they're out.

Now after all that, I think a +1 (4 team playoff) would work well. Maybe a bylaw for a special circumstance where there's a play-in game #4 vs. #5 similar to the BCS bowl exceptions to non-BCS conferences. I also think a 16 team playoff system would work. Take the 4 best non-BCS teams (insert controversy here) and seed them to play each other in round 1. The 6 BCS conferences would be required to have a conference championship game which would also be round 1 of the playoff. That leaves you with 6 conference champions and 2 at large bids which were earned by playing for it. This would take us back to the tournament mentality--where it's not necessarily the BEST but the one who can win a tournament -- and winning your conference championship may be the hardest thing even if it's only round 1 (insert controversy here). Technically all of the BCS conferences would have 2 teams in the 16 team playoffs--but round 1 is not really seeded.

I guess you could take the 2 best teams from each conference (required to NOT have a conference championship game) and the 4 best at large bids (non-BCS conference winners?) and then have a 16 team seeded tournament.

Whew. Makes me think that I like to hear errr see myself write.

:chatterbox:
 
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