Tinsley or Morris
- Thread starter MohawkCy88
- Start date
H
HGPuck
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I guess since this seems to be a needed precursor, I've attended games and have followed Iowa State closely since the mid '90s.
If you are comparing Morris this year to either of Tinsley's two seasons Jamaal was the better player, but it isn't the landslide some here are claiming. Tinsley at his best was at a level unlike almost anyone I've ever seen play live, but in hindsight its easy to forget the bad Tinsley we would see for stretches, that was a turnover machine and played little to no defense. If you just want to look at stats and take out the subjectives (I'm averaging Tinsley's two seasons because they were relatively close statistically with some stats being higher in either year and using Morris' stats from this year when he has been the full time point guard unlike last year):
Morris: 33.1 minutes 10.2 points 47.8% FG 5.8 assists 1.1 turnovers 3.7 rebounds 1.6 steals
Tinsley 32.5 minutes 12.5 points 38.8% FG 6.3 assists 4.0 turnovers 4.5 rebounds 2.6 steals
Like most of us already know, Morris is a quite a bit more efficient point guard and Tinsley is the more productive one. In terms of teams or coaching, they both had very talented teams around them and very good coaches. They both could have and would have thrived under either Hoiberg or Eustachy. The exciting thing about Morris is that he has up to two and a half more years to match Tinsley's individual or team accomplishments.
If you are comparing Morris this year to either of Tinsley's two seasons Jamaal was the better player, but it isn't the landslide some here are claiming. Tinsley at his best was at a level unlike almost anyone I've ever seen play live, but in hindsight its easy to forget the bad Tinsley we would see for stretches, that was a turnover machine and played little to no defense. If you just want to look at stats and take out the subjectives (I'm averaging Tinsley's two seasons because they were relatively close statistically with some stats being higher in either year and using Morris' stats from this year when he has been the full time point guard unlike last year):
Morris: 33.1 minutes 10.2 points 47.8% FG 5.8 assists 1.1 turnovers 3.7 rebounds 1.6 steals
Tinsley 32.5 minutes 12.5 points 38.8% FG 6.3 assists 4.0 turnovers 4.5 rebounds 2.6 steals
Like most of us already know, Morris is a quite a bit more efficient point guard and Tinsley is the more productive one. In terms of teams or coaching, they both had very talented teams around them and very good coaches. They both could have and would have thrived under either Hoiberg or Eustachy. The exciting thing about Morris is that he has up to two and a half more years to match Tinsley's individual or team accomplishments.
The fact that we are even discussing this so early in Morris's career, speaks volumes how good he really is & none of us think he has reached his peak yet.
I'm saying my argument isn't based off of 1 game. I probably should have said losing as a 2 seed tarnished his post season accomplishments rather than neutralized.
Tinsley still greater than Morris, but won't surprise me if I change my mind within a year. I didn't think that would be the case at the start of the season.
Tinsley still greater than Morris, but won't surprise me if I change my mind within a year. I didn't think that would be the case at the start of the season.
It deends on the team around them. If we have a team with weapons, definitely Morris. He is under control and makes the proper decisions to get his teammates shots.
Tinsley was magical with the ball, but he also made a lot of mistakes. If your team was outmatched, he have you a chance. But, if you had the better team he could do too much and lose the game.
Quite frankly, I think that swapping him and Morris on this year's team means a step back.
Tinsley was magical with the ball, but he also made a lot of mistakes. If your team was outmatched, he have you a chance. But, if you had the better team he could do too much and lose the game.
Quite frankly, I think that swapping him and Morris on this year's team means a step back.
H
HGPuck
Guest
This cuts both way, Tinsley had the ability to completely torpedo his own team or pull his team to victory by himself. Morris doesn't do either of those.
Two stellar forwards on the floor together would be much more useful than two stellar point guards on the floor together.
The fair comparison will be MM's last two seasons and JT's…we don't know yet if that's this year and next year, or the two years after this year.
For now I'll say…
-JT was the best ball handler I've ever seen in the NCAA and possibly in the NBA, not in turnovers but in being able to have the ball on an imaginary string, he was globetrotters level in actual games against real defenders
-They both have remarkable passing skills, but different styles
-Morris is better managing the game, protecting the ball and being a coach on the court
-Morris is a better shooter but neither are great, he could potentially really pull ahead there
-JT was better forcing a steal in a big moment, MM is good but not at that level yet
-both were very good blocking shots for their height
-JT was better getting to the basket, but Morris seems to improve by the week at that
For now I'll say…
-JT was the best ball handler I've ever seen in the NCAA and possibly in the NBA, not in turnovers but in being able to have the ball on an imaginary string, he was globetrotters level in actual games against real defenders
-They both have remarkable passing skills, but different styles
-Morris is better managing the game, protecting the ball and being a coach on the court
-Morris is a better shooter but neither are great, he could potentially really pull ahead there
-JT was better forcing a steal in a big moment, MM is good but not at that level yet
-both were very good blocking shots for their height
-JT was better getting to the basket, but Morris seems to improve by the week at that
I agree with that...but do you think a Morris-led team has the season the 00-01 ISU team had? Perhaps I'm also not giving that team enough credit on the whole. I do think they overachieved though...played their best ball around mid-February if I remember correctly.
Although you can probably do a lot with Kentrel Horton (SP) playing beside you. He was undervalued.
Tinsley, no contest. I just wish he would have taken a little off the flare and controlled the turnovers more. Absolutely the best player on the floor when he played in every game. Hopefully Morris ultimately proves more valuable to the team and provides a legitimate case for being the best, but not yet.
While Tinsley was good, he wasn't even the best on the team:
"I didn't even comb my hair today because I knew it would be a dogfight." - Michael Nurse.
Love Morris. I hope he has next years trip to Lawrence highlighted on his calendar. Winning one there will move him closer to Tinsley.
This thread is ridiculous and I think morris is incredible. Tinsley played for 2 years.
-2 time first team all big 12
-national player of the year runner up as senior
-34-0 at Hilton
-11-5 on road in big 12 games with 4 of the losses coming in ot
-1 elite 8
-2 Big 12 Regular Season Titles
-1 Big 12 Tourney Title
I have no idea how anyone that actually watched tinsley play that has a basketball IQ could say 'he tried to do too much and sometimes it costed us games'.
The guy was the best pg in isu history. Period.
-2 time first team all big 12
-national player of the year runner up as senior
-34-0 at Hilton
-11-5 on road in big 12 games with 4 of the losses coming in ot
-1 elite 8
-2 Big 12 Regular Season Titles
-1 Big 12 Tourney Title
I have no idea how anyone that actually watched tinsley play that has a basketball IQ could say 'he tried to do too much and sometimes it costed us games'.
The guy was the best pg in isu history. Period.
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love the gifs but there not even close to the things I saw Mel Mel do to guys at the rec. I had a lot of fun playing with him and against him back in the day. Threw me my first ever lob pass for a dunk too. Mel Mel all the way.
