I doubt it. Both UNI and ISU spend more than average but a lot less than the top schools. I brought it up the actual numbers because there is a outdated belief that ISU has more resources to work with than most schools. There are fewer schools wrestling now than their used to be. But the ones that are left are putting a lot more money in to it. ISU has advantages that a lot of schools don't. But not as much as people assume. In family income terms ISU is upper middle class, but everybody thinks we are the 1%
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Don't know what your numbers leave out or how outdated they are, but all three schools' budgets are higher than that. UNI's is larger, but doesn't come close to ours. I knew our wrestling budget was nearing $1 mil, as Jamie mentioned it during a stop on the Tailgate Tour last spring. The amount of money our wrestling program actually brings in is pretty pathetic, as you can see.
Iowa State University Wrestling Finances | Revenues & Expenditures
ISU expenses - $921,837
ISU income - $146,182
Profit (loss) - ($775,655)
UNI expenses - $671,736
UNI income - $478,606
Profit (loss) - ($193,130)
Iowa expenses - $1.83 mil
Iowa income - $1.23 mil
Profit (loss) - ($566,049)
Wow. You are presenting facts that are simply not facts. Not because it doesn't fit your narrative but because you don't know any better. This is a classic case of comparing apples to pears and bananas.
Iowa State's $215K doesn't include salaries OR scholarships. Surely you realize our coaching and support staff alone makes far more than $215K. I mean, you really thought we were paying 3 coaches, a full time administrative assistant, and running a travel and recruiting budget on $215K?
Scholarship Costs are about equal so those can all but be ignored.
Salaries (FY2013 - Source: State Salaries Database)
Iowa State
Jackson: $139,000
Paulson: $66,500
Nickerson: $60,000
Donnelly: $39,200
Total: $304,700
UNI
Schwab: $92,600
Schwab: $54,300
Pugh: $46,300
Part time admin: $12,000
Total: $205,200
(Note: ISU pays each coach more than his UNI counterpart. ISU also has a full time administrative assistant for the wrestling program. UNI does not.)
Other expenses (FY2013 for UNI, FY2012 for ISU since that's all we have. Source: your links)
ISU: $215,480
UNI: $98,600
Total Wrestling Expenses: Salaries plus other expenses
ISU: $520,214
UNI: $303,800
Iowa State spends roughly $216K MORE than UNI on wrestling--70% more.
The thing is, we're just looking at money the school spends on wrestlers. Resources for wrestling go beyond the school's budgets. Look at our coaching staff--far more accomplished than UNI's. Randy Pugh was a one time AA in college and Mark Schwab wrestled 25 years ago. Our wrestling club is better supported (with a full time coach which UNI doesn't have) and supports better wrestlers than UNI's. And how about wrestling camps? Again, ours draw more kids and make more money, hands down.
The verdict: Wrestling is MUCH better supported at ISU than at UNI. I think I've said enough. I will hang up and listen.
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How is UNI's income so much more than ours? They somehow manage to spend a decent chunk less and bring in a **** ton more. Would really love to know why that is.
Probably just accounting. they made some facilities improvements recently. The donations to pay for them might be counted with wrestling income but the expenses are recorded elsewhere, like perhaps in a facilities part of the budget. There is no way they truly bring in that much for wrestling.
I'm also not sure of the validity of that website, though their numbers do seem to jive with the ones I posted once scholarships are included.
Which seems more reliable to you, the budgets prepared by the universities and presented to the regents, which include the actual expenditures from prior years as well as proposed budgets for this year; or a random website which provides no source data, claims we have a women's team combined with our men's team, and says we have four assistant coaches?
From the website you linked:
From the Iowa State website (and more coaches aren't allowed by the NCAA):
There is no source data for the numbers they claim and they can't even get simple stuff right. Why would there be any reason to assume the numbers on that website are at all valid?
That number was just ticket income per the budget. That same budget says that UNI's ticket income for all men's sports other than football and basketball was $45,200. Given that the other three mens sports that UNI sponsors are golf, track, and cross country, Wrestling is probably most of that $45,200.
We were ranked 8 in the country in attendance last year, not sure where UNI was, but they weren't ahead of us. I am not sure what other income there is besides our Nichols Open and their UNI Open.
I assume it is donations of some sort.
I assume it is donations of some sort.
So it looks like the lowly income is us. What happened? Food sales are down?
Maybe we can swap staffs?
Maybe our travel costs are too high for our wins?
Maybe we need better recruiters?
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Well, for one, I suggest not believing the guy who thinks ISU only spends $215K on wrestling when our coaches alone earn far more than that in salary.
How about expenses? Can we at least agree that wrestling is better supported financially by ISU than at UNI and that comparing UNI's salary and expenses to ISU's expenses (and ignoring salary) is silly and disingenuous?
I was actually trying to calm the mood from everyone wanting to jump off the bridge, and when I read the initial amount I was figuring that coaches salary was not being included for us because I know how much KJ and the supporting staff makes. I didn't dig into budgets and was figuring that also meant salaries werent included for the other two schools, that was my bad I should have investigated.
I knew along with I hope everyone else, once JP took over the wrestling program was going to be left on the way back burner. He has done great things with the football program and bball but we all knew where his priority of wrestling stood, which is sad because that is the one sport where we were a national name for a long time (for our performance, not from random upsets and locker room speeches, no disrespect to CPR)
Serious question: what kind of donor money would make a big difference for wrestling? 100k? 500k? 1 million? 5 million? Obviously more is better, but where would it start to make a big impact?
I'm not looking as you so much as at Judoka who's suddenly gone quiet as a sleeping baby on the subject.
