Way too early starting lineup talk for the 23-24 season

[allfourcy]

From a standpoint of looking at attrition vs who we've added, how can you not be excited talent and skill-set wise for this next year. Not to mention current roster improveing by being in the program for a 2nd/3rd year with the same coaching staff.

Osun < Biliew
Kunc < Momcilovic
Holmes <= C. Jones
(good)Gabe <= Gilbert
Grill < Paveletzke
E. King < Hamilton
open scolly < Fish
empty walkon spot < Kelderman

Obviously, with all due respect to the guys leaving. Definitely an unbelievable overachieving group

which so much unknown and the new guys coming from non power 5 conferences, I don't know on some of these...
Holmes was a starter/leader/scorer for us from day 1. C.Jones will probably come off the bench.
And Pav is not > a healthy Grill (except for maybe dribbling) Dont think people appreciated the defense and rebounding Grill provided to the team.

 

[SoleCyclone]

which so much unknown and the new guys coming from non power 5 conferences, I don't know on some of these...
Holmes was a starter/leader/scorer for us from day 1. C.Jones will probably come off the bench.
And Pav is not > a healthy Grill (except for maybe dribbling) Dont think people appreciated the defense and rebounding Grill provided to the team.

Remember, Holmes came from St. Bon. and preseason most people picked him to be the leading scorer on the team without a great resume. Not a huge bar set

 

[CyPunch]

From a standpoint of looking at attrition vs who we've added, how can you not be excited talent and skill-set wise for this next year. Not to mention current roster improveing by being in the program for a 2nd/3rd year with the same coaching staff.

Osun < Biliew
Kunc < Momcilovic
Holmes <= C. Jones
(good)Gabe <= Gilbert
Grill < Paveletzke
E. King < Hamilton
open scolly < Fish
empty walkon spot < Kelderman

Obviously, with all due respect to the guys leaving. Definitely an unbelievable overachieving group

We have a more talented roster but this is aggressive.

I hope Gilbert can be as good as Gabe was this year but that is optimistic. Even better? Gabe was 2nd team All-Big 12. He was really good.

Don't understand the Osun and Omaha comparison? Omaha is a 4 we can use on the perimeter some.

Curtis Jones being better than Jaren Holmes seems optimistic as well. Very optimistic.

Paveletzke over Grill? Maybe long term, I hope?

 

[SoleCyclone]

We have a more talented roster but this is aggressive.

I hope Gilbert can be as good as Gabe was this year but that is optimistic. Even better? Gabe was 2nd team All-Big 12. He was really good.

Don't understand the Osun and Omaha comparison? Omaha is a 4 we can use on the perimeter some.

Curtis Jones being better than Jaren Holmes seems optimistic as well. Very optimistic.

Paveletzke over Grill? Maybe long term, I hope?

Really wasn't a direct comparison player to player, more of a equation of a what each new player can bring to the table vs last seasons roster. Obviously a Biliew/Osun comparison doesn't make sense on paper.
Talent and upside is better.
I guess the flaw with this equation is we haven't seen all these newcomers in an isu jersey yet and we are fully aware of the limitations that Gabe, Holmes, Grill, Kunc, E. King, Osun had.
Everything that they didn't do well is something what SEEMS to be an asset the newcomers have.

This is a commentary and not an absolute. Games are played on the court and not on paper or a chat forum.
I get it.

 

[moores2]

Man alive, I keep trying to come up with starting predictions. This team will be deep.

 

[GraniteStateClone]

Wouldn't it be interesting to see TJ go hockey lineup? Roll out 5 guys, then at the first TV timeout roll out a line of 5 new guys? The lines would be a mix of "starters" and projected off the bench players, so the 2nd line would be comparable to the first in talent.

 

[alexssdean12]

From a standpoint of looking at attrition vs who we've added, how can you not be excited talent and skill-set wise for this next year. Not to mention current roster improveing by being in the program for a 2nd/3rd year with the same coaching staff.

Osun < Biliew
Kunc < Momcilovic
Holmes <= C. Jones
(good)Gabe <= Gilbert
Grill < Paveletzke
E. King < Hamilton
open scolly < Fish
empty walkon spot < Kelderman

Obviously, with all due respect to the guys leaving. Definitely an unbelievable overachieving group

I think I'd take Holmes over Jones but agree never the less

 

[Cyforce]

In all the years of mbb lineup threads, this one is the biggest crapshoot I can ever recall.

Between the four frosh, 3 transfers, and J williams we have 8 players who've never set foot on the floor in Hilton, Throw in King who only got a semester and Ward who got limited minutes in most games.

I calculate we're only returning 23% of our minutes from last year.

I think TJ plays 9 guys significant minutes, the rest will have to be patient.

Lipsey
Pav
Gilbert
Biliew
King

And then big minutes for Jones, Momcilovic, Watson, and Ward.

Spot minutes for BRE, unless he beats out Ward again.

TBD: Hamilton, Fish, and J Williams (hope he can recover 100%).

Who's getting the backup point minutes?

 

[cyclonehomer]

Who's getting the backup point minutes?

I mean if Williams isn't ready, Pav, Gilbert, and I believe Jones all played a bit of point, especially Pav and Gilbert. At least those two are probably the most natural backup PGs ISU has had with TJ, Gabe (especially) and Holmes were both out of position there.

 

[SoleCyclone]

Who's getting the backup point minutes?

I think it'll be just more of a slide over type of situation. Like this last year when Lipsey would go to the bench Holmes would run the point.
Next year I feel we will be in a better overall situation in this aspect as we've added lots of ball handlers/ dribble drive type players to facilitate the offense

 

[Cyforce]

I think it'll be just more of a slide over type of situation. Like this last year when Lipsey would go to the bench Holmes would run the point.
Next year I feel we will be in a better overall situation in this aspect as we've added lots of ball handlers/ dribble drive type players to facilitate the offense

I'll be surprised if Williams isn't back.
My guess is the PG will be a 25-15 split.

3 new wings get most the minutes unless Hamilton beats someone out. Watson my get some special circumstances minutes

Biliew 30
Momcilovic 20
King 20
Jones or Ward 10

 

[Didley]

Trying to take a stab at it. This is tough

Lipsey 20 - Williams -15
Pavs 20 - Gilbert 15
C.Jones 20 - Momcilovic 20
Billiew 25 - Ward 10
T.King 25 - R.Jones 15

Watson 10
Hamilton 5
Fish 0
Kelderman 0

 

[ZRF]

We have a more talented roster but this is aggressive.

I hope Gilbert can be as good as Gabe was this year but that is optimistic. Even better? Gabe was 2nd team All-Big 12. He was really good.

Don't understand the Osun and Omaha comparison? Omaha is a 4 we can use on the perimeter some.

Curtis Jones being better than Jaren Holmes seems optimistic as well. Very optimistic.

Paveletzke over Grill? Maybe long term, I hope?

As an offensive contributor, most definitely. But man, was Holmes a terrible defender, especially away from the ball. I don't know enough about Jones, but if it's got better length/wingspan and is more athletic and vigilant than Holmes, I could potentially seeing him be a better overall player, especially for what we need.

Holmes and the rest of the team were kind of unfairly put in a bad position where the lack of overall athleticism, shot creation, and perimeter length shone a brighter light on each player's deficiencies. Very good chance this years team won't have that problem (at least not to the same degree).

 

[OtownClone]

Achilles injuries are no joke. There are players that don’t ever play again. Most do, but take time to not only rehab, but also get back to the level they were at. 10 months of rehab is normal and it can take a season to get the athleticism back. Williams could certainly out perform the average, but he is coming off a major injury and will be up against good competition for minutes. Potentially missing most of the summer also deprives him of an opportunity to carve out a role in practices and scrimmages. Any thing we get from him this coming year is gravy, in my book.

 

[bozclone]

Why do people think King will play the 5? I don’t recall him playing the 5 this past year. I understand that we have a lot of options at the 4 and we need to find minutes but King is not a rim protector and I think he may struggle when guarded by someone bigger. TJ will have some interesting decisions to make.

 

[Frak]

Why do people think King will play the 5? I don’t recall him playing the 5 this past year. I understand that we have a lot of options at the 4 and we need to find minutes but King is not a rim protector and I think he may struggle when guarded by someone bigger. TJ will have some interesting decisions to make.

I personally think that they could roll out a lineup with Tre King at the 5.

Lipsey
Pav
Gilbert
Omaha
King

Yeah, I get that Tre is not going to be a rim protector, but he's kind of a wide body with some post ability. That lineup to me is kind of 5 out creating driving lanes and then switch everything on defense. Then if you are getting beat up inside, start mixing in Ward and Jones. I just doubt that there's many teams on the schedule that can make us pay too badly for playing small ball.

 

[bozclone]

I personally think that they could roll out a lineup with Tre King at the 5.

Lipsey
Pav
Gilbert
Omaha
King

Yeah, I get that Tre is not going to be a rim protector, but he's kind of a wide body with some post ability. That lineup to me is kind of 5 out creating driving lanes and then switch everything on defense. Then if you are getting beat up inside, start mixing in Ward and Jones. I just doubt that there's many teams on the schedule that can make us pay too badly for playing small ball.

I think this would work best if Tre can improve his 3 point shot. Then he can create a mismatch against the opposing 5.

 

[Statefan10]

I think this would work best if Tre can improve his 3 point shot. Then he can create a mismatch against the opposing 5.

I think he’ll improve slightly from the 3 but nothing too crazy. Personally I think you could play him like KU played KJ Adams. We will have 4 guards around him that can all create so he just needs to sit in the short corner and knock that shot down or for a dump off dunk.

Defensively him and Omaha out there will be serviceable enough rim protectors.

 

[MJ271]

Why do people think King will play the 5? I don’t recall him playing the 5 this past year. I understand that we have a lot of options at the 4 and we need to find minutes but King is not a rim protector and I think he may struggle when guarded by someone bigger. TJ will have some interesting decisions to make.

I agree that it's a bit surprising, given that we haven't seen King at the 5 yet. Although we have seen Kunc at the 5, not as much this season but a lot last year.

I think, as far as rim protection goes, it just isn't all that important in the Green/Otzelberger defense. The defense is more about preventing the shots at the rim in the first place and less about defending them. That's a lot of why Osun's block numbers were by far the lowest of his career, even adjusting for pace and minutes played. It's great if you have it, but far from needed.

Also, King's block percentage at Eastern Kentucky, where he played the 5 more (albeit against smaller opponents), was in the range of Robert Jones's. So he probably does have a bit more capability there than we saw from him this year when he was only playing the 4.

 

[bawbie]

I agree that it's a bit surprising, given that we haven't seen King at the 5 yet. Although we have seen Kunc at the 5, not as much this season but a lot last year.

I think, as far as rim protection goes, it just isn't all that important in the Green/Otzelberger defense. The defense is more about preventing the shots at the rim in the first place and less about defending them. That's a lot of why Osun's block numbers were by far the lowest of his career, even adjusting for pace and minutes played. It's great if you have it, but far from needed.

Also, King's block percentage at Eastern Kentucky, where he played the 5 more (albeit against smaller opponents), was in the range of Robert Jones's. So he probably does have a bit more capability there than we saw from him this year when he was only playing the 4.

I think the biggest thing about King playing the 5 is Omaha playing the 4. He should be a plus defender from day one and is a rim protector. I think that's a different proposition than King playing the 5 with 4 guards out there.