What’s wrong with the offense?

[stewart092284]

At times but they did a great job mixing it up. The late TD that guy came straight off the edge as the over hang and one of their interior LB's came quite a bit. The sack when Bonifas was in for Black came on a straight blitz.

Its really simple defensively. If I bring 5 - I can still cover with 6, and now I only need to win ONE on one matchup up front to get pressure.

Thats where blitz beaters are so important to the offense and we seem to be more in favor of inter-mediate to long routes. Which is great for big chain moving type plays and explosives when the protection holds up and everyone is picked up and on time... when it doesn't though....

that lack of a use of a safety valve can really be huge

 

[AuH2O]

Dude, that's an RPO. That's literally the "run" part of the play. Its impossible to tell a linemen you're job is both

"get to the linebacker " and ALSO " don't get to the linebacker.

That's LITERALLY every uncovered offensive linemen's job in an RPO offense.

It has nothing to do with discipline. It has everything to do with timing being off. Either in his head or Rocco held onto the ball a second or two too long or made a bad read or TT covered it up well, etc... its why every single play isn't an RPO because its hella hard to get the timing down just right

No, it was a good RPO, where everything was textbook except an uncovered C deciding he’s going to go 5 yards downfield without any count first.

“Timing was off” I guess is a way to describe an uncovered OL just firing off and getting to a LB with depth without pausing. Teams run screens that require multiple OL to do something far more complicated all the time.

 

[stewart092284]

That’s not how it works. If the throw is there you pull it and throw. And that was the right read. And it’s not a thing for the C to analyze, nor is this something difficult. Teams do this constantly. If you are an OL whose block is going to be at the second level and he’s got that much depth you can’t just go downfield that far right at the snap.

HS OL can execute screens, which are harder to execute than being uncovered on an RPO.

So, there's so much wrong with this statement, its kind of incredible.

A) The RPO is entirely dependent on the box, 9 times out of 10, and the count, similar to triple option football, which is where it comes from. Its literally designed to be a run play when it being "Run-pass" not "Pass-run". To be as you described it, it'd simply be a play-action pass.

There'd be no reason for a new play concept to develop. Its literally the evolution of the triple option of the service academies into the modern game. Its literally designed to open the run game, which is why so many teams, including HS teams do it.

"Also general rule of thumb is if the LB drops, run the ball. So Hufford, seeing the LB drop, is expecting a run". Hence he goes to the second level. Second rule is , if you do throw, throw it immediately, or laterally, to avoid downfield. We did neither.

C) In the first 6 weeks of the NFL season last season, there were 23 inelgible offensive linemen down field, the vast majority of those coming on RPO's. So that was four a week. Clearly, its super easy that the most elite offensive linemen in the world are committing penalities in a quarter of NFL games as of a year ago. Yep. Super easy. High school kids can do what NFL offensive linemen can't do more than 75% of the time. Sure boss.

D) Additionally, continuing with the rules of an RPO scheme, in a 5-6 man box you want to run the ball and against a 7-8 man box, you want to be able to throw, because again, of the #'s advantage.

Once again, the literal scheme of an RPO is as follows


On RPO calls, the offensive line always blocks assuming a running play. If offensive linemen are blocking up field and getting into the second .

Hufford, as an uncovered offensive linemen as the center facing an even front, on a running play, the SOLE Offensive linemen responsible for the Mike linebacker in the run game. So, based on the inherrent rules of the RPO, his job is to find the Mike linebacker.


So in summation

1) Its an option play designed to get run defenders out of the box
2) Its based on a count where with the look we got we should have run the ball actually
3) The offensive line is taught to presume its a run play which is what Hufford did
4) The NFL , with the world's greatest OL, commit the same penalty 25% of the time through week 6 last year.

Don't believe me. Here's a college football coach explaining it for you.


Linemen being called for being illegally downfield has increased in the last few years at all levels of football.

It’s nearly impossible to coach them to not be caught sometimes being downfield.

Washington & Jefferson College coach Mike Sirianni said it’s difficult to coach linemen to avoid going downfield at times because they must run block first in an RPO attack.

“They’re going to get called at times,” Sirianni said. “We accept that we’re going to get called for a penalty at times. Sometimes you may see the linebackers vacating and they might realize it’s a pass. You can’t totally rely on it.”



So... like I said... there was almost nothing that you said that was a correct.

 

[AuH2O]

So, there's so much wrong with this statement, its kind of incredible.

A) The RPO is entirely dependent on the box, 9 times out of 10, and the count, similar to triple option football, which is where it comes from. Its literally designed to be a run play when it being "Run-pass" not "Pass-run". To be as you described it, it'd simply be a play-action pass.

There'd be no reason for a new play concept to develop. Its literally the evolution of the triple option of the service academies into the modern game. Its literally designed to open the run game, which is why so many teams, including HS teams do it.

"Also general rule of thumb is if the LB drops, run the ball. So Hufford, seeing the LB drop, is expecting a run". Hence he goes to the second level. Second rule is , if you do throw, throw it immediately, or laterally, to avoid downfield. We did neither.

C) In the first 6 weeks of the NFL season last season, there were 23 inelgible offensive linemen down field, the vast majority of those coming on RPO's. So that was four a week. Clearly, its super easy that the most elite offensive linemen in the world are committing penalities in a quarter of NFL games as of a year ago. Yep. Super easy. High school kids can do what NFL offensive linemen can't do more than 75% of the time. Sure boss.

D) Additionally, continuing with the rules of an RPO scheme, in a 5-6 man box you want to run the ball and against a 7-8 man box, you want to be able to throw, because again, of the #'s advantage.

Once again, the literal scheme of an RPO is as follows


On RPO calls, the offensive line always blocks assuming a running play. If offensive linemen are blocking up field and getting into the second .

Hufford, as an uncovered offensive linemen as the center facing an even front, on a running play, the SOLE Offensive linemen responsible for the Mike linebacker in the run game. So, based on the inherrent rules of the RPO, his job is to find the Mike linebacker.


So in summation

1) Its an option play designed to get run defenders out of the box
2) Its based on a count where with the look we got we should have run the ball actually
3) The offensive line is taught to presume its a run play which is what Hufford did
4) The NFL , with the world's greatest OL, commit the same penalty 25% of the time through week 6 last year.

Don't believe me. Here's a college football coach explaining it for you.


Linemen being called for being illegally downfield has increased in the last few years at all levels of football.

It’s nearly impossible to coach them to not be caught sometimes being downfield.

Washington & Jefferson College coach Mike Sirianni said it’s difficult to coach linemen to avoid going downfield at times because they must run block first in an RPO attack.

“They’re going to get called at times,” Sirianni said. “We accept that we’re going to get called for a penalty at times. Sometimes you may see the linebackers vacating and they might realize it’s a pass. You can’t totally rely on it.”



So... like I said... there was almost nothing that you said that was a correct.

I’m in no way describing a play action pass. I have no idea where you are getting that.

I’m describing exactly what it was, a slant RPO. Put the ball into the RBs belly, read the option S or LB and if he comes up (which he did) pull it and throw the slant. If that guy instead would’ve dropped you keep it in his belly and hand it off. It was the right read on the play.

As for the OL run blocking, yes. Never argued that. But the run blocking technique used by everybody on an uncovered OL esp now that the illegals downfield rules are tighter is a combo block. In this case an uncovered C doubles with G for a second then comes off and gets to the second level. Just a typical run blocking concept and buys time to dramatically reduce illegal downfield.

 

[Drew0311]

I’m trying to figure out Abu Sama. Sometimes he looks like Darren Davis and sometimes he is non existent. It’s weird. Never seen a running back so hot and cold

 

[madguy30]

I’m trying to figure out Abu Sama. Sometimes he looks like Darren Davis and sometimes he is non existent. It’s weird. Never seen a running back so hot and cold

He needs space and a seam.

He was in a flanker type spot against UCF a bit but I don't recall that the other night. I was kind of hoping there would be more of it.

 

[Koala]

So, there's so much wrong with this statement, its kind of incredible.

A) The RPO is entirely dependent on the box, 9 times out of 10, and the count, similar to triple option football, which is where it comes from. Its literally designed to be a run play when it being "Run-pass" not "Pass-run". To be as you described it, it'd simply be a play-action pass.

There'd be no reason for a new play concept to develop. Its literally the evolution of the triple option of the service academies into the modern game. Its literally designed to open the run game, which is why so many teams, including HS teams do it.

"Also general rule of thumb is if the LB drops, run the ball. So Hufford, seeing the LB drop, is expecting a run". Hence he goes to the second level. Second rule is , if you do throw, throw it immediately, or laterally, to avoid downfield. We did neither.

C) In the first 6 weeks of the NFL season last season, there were 23 inelgible offensive linemen down field, the vast majority of those coming on RPO's. So that was four a week. Clearly, its super easy that the most elite offensive linemen in the world are committing penalities in a quarter of NFL games as of a year ago. Yep. Super easy. High school kids can do what NFL offensive linemen can't do more than 75% of the time. Sure boss.

D) Additionally, continuing with the rules of an RPO scheme, in a 5-6 man box you want to run the ball and against a 7-8 man box, you want to be able to throw, because again, of the #'s advantage.

Once again, the literal scheme of an RPO is as follows


On RPO calls, the offensive line always blocks assuming a running play. If offensive linemen are blocking up field and getting into the second .

Hufford, as an uncovered offensive linemen as the center facing an even front, on a running play, the SOLE Offensive linemen responsible for the Mike linebacker in the run game. So, based on the inherrent rules of the RPO, his job is to find the Mike linebacker.


So in summation

1) Its an option play designed to get run defenders out of the box
2) Its based on a count where with the look we got we should have run the ball actually
3) The offensive line is taught to presume its a run play which is what Hufford did
4) The NFL , with the world's greatest OL, commit the same penalty 25% of the time through week 6 last year.

Don't believe me. Here's a college football coach explaining it for you.


Linemen being called for being illegally downfield has increased in the last few years at all levels of football.

It’s nearly impossible to coach them to not be caught sometimes being downfield.

Washington & Jefferson College coach Mike Sirianni said it’s difficult to coach linemen to avoid going downfield at times because they must run block first in an RPO attack.

“They’re going to get called at times,” Sirianni said. “We accept that we’re going to get called for a penalty at times. Sometimes you may see the linebackers vacating and they might realize it’s a pass. You can’t totally rely on it.”



So... like I said... there was almost nothing that you said that was a correct.

NFL isn't a great litmus test since the rule is different there, they get 1 yard to work with and college lineman get 3 yards. So I'd expect a stricter rule to be broken more often.

 

[Cloned4Life]

NFL isn't a great litmus test since the rule is different there, they get.1 yard to work with and college lineman get 3 yards. So I'd expect a stricter rule to be broken more often.

This. It makes it almost a completely different rule (and challenge).

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Guys, formations and TE's aren't the problem.

If they were, the option would NEVER work, the Wing T would not still be a thing, even at the high school level, and Iowa could play the deaf, dumb and blind and still only win 1 game if it was about formations.

Its - not to sound like a motion of the ocean saying - how you use them.

Having 3 Tight ends is fine.
Having 5 wide receivers, is also, fine.
As is everywhere in between.

Throw it 50 times a game, I don't care. Throw it twice. IDC.

Both have won (and lost) a lot of football games over the years.

But the ones that win the most are the ones that have built in protections, and ones that tell the defense "you didn't see what your eyes just told your brain what they saw".

Those are the great offenses. Its not about #s in the box, per say, though that does muddy it for the offense.

Its about an ability to make the defense think you're playing checkers, while playing chess. Or vice versea. That's what makes Heacock great.

I disagree to an extent. This team has shown that the offense/Rocco are at their best when they spread the field. That includes the run game. We aren't built to run all of these tight formations and be stupid predictable. IMO predictability was one of our biggest issues on Saturday. It also seems like our route trees take longer to develop out of the tight formations, which is problematic when your o-line isn't able to buy you time. I'm not saying that scheme s our only problem but the stubbornness on tight formations isn't the solution either. This was an issue back in 2021 too when we were completely committed to the multiple TE sets and teams adapted.

 

[CDN_Tailgater]

Late to the thread but Need to get more WRs involved. Noel and HIggins are great but we should have at least two other WRs will at least 10 catches.

 

[Clonefan32]

To me it's alot like Brock's last few years. Running long developing routes with bad protection is a recipe for disaster. The focus has to be scheme was to get the ball into Noel and Higgins hands quicker and let them make plays. The reality is that the long developing, deep routes aren't going to be an option until we can sure up protecting.

 

[flycy]

It’s obvious it’s the play calling. We have good backs, good recievers, good quarterback. That 3rd and ten where Rocco just took off running should get a coach fired. So many questionable play calls today. Can’t we go find a coordinator? I mean we are a power 5 team.

We have average backs at best, good receivers but only 2, and best case average line talent and below average depth. The delusion on talent level explains why so many think we should just roll, and the coaches are totally inept. And the talent level is higher than at any other time at ISU. Give Mouser time, he has been way above average for a first time play caller and clearly is a good coach. I think he has been good in most games and will get better. Instead so many want to get a power 5 coordinator that some other team doesn't want anymore. This is like year 30 in a row where people are calling for the OC head. Did I mention we are 7-1 which is also the best ever.

 

[flycy]

Tech gives up 30 a game, and we made them look all world today. Their secondary can’t cover anyone, but I don’t think we even tried to attack them downfield once today. Instead we lined up Klotz and Moore and tried to run right at the 7 guys they put in the box. Not to mention it’s game 8 and we’re still rotating running backs as if Hansen clearly isn’t the best guy on the field. Today was a complete and utter failure by the entire coaching staff.

This is exactly about the opposite of what we tried, and clearly Hansen isn't healthy enough to last the season if in every play. Sama was running just as hard today and needed the ball more. He average 5.7 and only had one 26 yard run to pad it.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

We have average backs at best, good receivers but only 2, and best case average line talent and below average depth. The delusion on talent level explains why so many think we should just roll, and the coaches are totally inept. And the talent level is higher than at any other time at ISU. Give Mouser time, he has been way above average for a first time play caller and clearly is a good coach. I think he has been good in most games and will get better. Instead so many want to get a power 5 coordinator that some other team doesn't want anymore. This is like year 30 in a row where people are calling for the OC head. Did I mention we are 7-1 which is also the best ever.

I don't think we know that, that seems like a big assumption.

 

[flycy]

Soft? Is it too much to ask for the game plan to target one of the worst secondaries in the country? I think questioning the play calling today is very valid.

It is, but to question the entire coaching staff is beyond ridiculous. We've been holding things together with band aids all year.

 

[3TrueFans]

Late to the thread but Need to get more WRs involved. Noel and HIggins are great but we should have at least two other WRs will at least 10 catches.

3 or 4 receivers with 10 catches per game? That's never going to happen. I don't think any team could do that.

 

[Cyclonsin]

3 or 4 receivers with 10 catches per game? That's never going to happen. I don't think any team could do that.

I took it to mean we should have at least 2 more WRs with 10 catches so far on the season:

 

[KCyclone2010]

To me it's alot like Brock's last few years. Running long developing routes with bad protecting is a recipe for disaster. The focus has to be scheme was to get the ball into Noel and Higgins hands quicker and let them make plays. The reality is that the long developing, deep routes aren't going to be an option until we can sure up protecting.

When was the last time we ran a RB screen? We literally do nothing to keep the defense off balance. They are able to pin their ears back and rush directly to the QB or RB because they know they will always be within the tackles. Our play calling does no favors to the O-line when the rushers only have to worry about 1 thing.

 

[Cyballz]

So, there's so much wrong with this statement, its kind of incredible.

A) The RPO is entirely dependent on the box, 9 times out of 10, and the count, similar to triple option football, which is where it comes from. Its literally designed to be a run play when it being "Run-pass" not "Pass-run". To be as you described it, it'd simply be a play-action pass.

There'd be no reason for a new play concept to develop. Its literally the evolution of the triple option of the service academies into the modern game. Its literally designed to open the run game, which is why so many teams, including HS teams do it.

"Also general rule of thumb is if the LB drops, run the ball. So Hufford, seeing the LB drop, is expecting a run". Hence he goes to the second level. Second rule is , if you do throw, throw it immediately, or laterally, to avoid downfield. We did neither.

C) In the first 6 weeks of the NFL season last season, there were 23 inelgible offensive linemen down field, the vast majority of those coming on RPO's. So that was four a week. Clearly, its super easy that the most elite offensive linemen in the world are committing penalities in a quarter of NFL games as of a year ago. Yep. Super easy. High school kids can do what NFL offensive linemen can't do more than 75% of the time. Sure boss.

D) Additionally, continuing with the rules of an RPO scheme, in a 5-6 man box you want to run the ball and against a 7-8 man box, you want to be able to throw, because again, of the #'s advantage.

Once again, the literal scheme of an RPO is as follows


On RPO calls, the offensive line always blocks assuming a running play. If offensive linemen are blocking up field and getting into the second .

Hufford, as an uncovered offensive linemen as the center facing an even front, on a running play, the SOLE Offensive linemen responsible for the Mike linebacker in the run game. So, based on the inherrent rules of the RPO, his job is to find the Mike linebacker.


So in summation

1) Its an option play designed to get run defenders out of the box
2) Its based on a count where with the look we got we should have run the ball actually
3) The offensive line is taught to presume its a run play which is what Hufford did
4) The NFL , with the world's greatest OL, commit the same penalty 25% of the time through week 6 last year.

Don't believe me. Here's a college football coach explaining it for you.


Linemen being called for being illegally downfield has increased in the last few years at all levels of football.

It’s nearly impossible to coach them to not be caught sometimes being downfield.

Washington & Jefferson College coach Mike Sirianni said it’s difficult to coach linemen to avoid going downfield at times because they must run block first in an RPO attack.

“They’re going to get called at times,” Sirianni said. “We accept that we’re going to get called for a penalty at times. Sometimes you may see the linebackers vacating and they might realize it’s a pass. You can’t totally rely on it.”



So... like I said... there was almost nothing that you said that was a correct.

Lineman are downfield on almost every RPO - woulda been nice for the refs to be looking as closely at Tech in that last drive

 

[3TrueFans]

View attachment 137334

Lineman are downfield on almost every RPO - woulda been nice for the refs to be looking as closely at Tech in that last drive

You'd need to back that up a few frames because it's when the pass is thrown, their guy was only about 2 yards past at that point. Our guy was like 4 almost 5 yards downfield.