When do you think you will buy a 100% pure electric vehicle?

[dmclone]

New Tesla Model 3 Performance released.

Only Model 3 that qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit which drops the price down to $45.5k.

• Starting price: $52,990
• 0-60mph: 2.9s (vs 3.1s in old version)
• Range: 296 miles
• Top Speed: 163 mph
• Adaptive Suspension: Powered by in-house software. Gives enhanced body control, without sacrificing daily usability or comfort.
• All-new high-performance drive units deliver 500+ horsepower.
• Track Mode V3: All-new calibration for the powertrain and adaptive suspension.
• Ventilated Sports Seats: New seat design with enhanced side and cushion bolsters.
• Performance Chassis
• Forged Performance Wheels: Lightweight, staggered wheels provide sharper turn-in response, improved predictability, increased traction out of corners and optimized aerodynamics.
• High-Performance Brakes: Enhanced pedal feel and improved heat management.
• Exclusive to Model 3 Performance, redesigned front and rear fascias, rear diffuser and carbon fibre spoiler.
• Carbon Fibre Details: Lightweight carbon fibre interior décor and refined weave pattern.

Just for comparison sake, this family sedan has the same 0-60 as a $70k 2024 Corvette C8 dedicated sports car. With that said, it won't sound 1/2 as cool. What a crazy time to be a motorhead.

 

[Jer]

New Tesla Model 3 Performance released.

Only Model 3 that qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit which drops the price down to $45.5k.

• Starting price: $52,990
• 0-60mph: 2.9s (vs 3.1s in old version)
• Range: 296 miles
• Top Speed: 163 mph
• Adaptive Suspension: Powered by in-house software. Gives enhanced body control, without sacrificing daily usability or comfort.
• All-new high-performance drive units deliver 500+ horsepower.
• Track Mode V3: All-new calibration for the powertrain and adaptive suspension.
• Ventilated Sports Seats: New seat design with enhanced side and cushion bolsters.
• Performance Chassis
• Forged Performance Wheels: Lightweight, staggered wheels provide sharper turn-in response, improved predictability, increased traction out of corners and optimized aerodynamics.
• High-Performance Brakes: Enhanced pedal feel and improved heat management.
• Exclusive to Model 3 Performance, redesigned front and rear fascias, rear diffuser and carbon fibre spoiler.
• Carbon Fibre Details: Lightweight carbon fibre interior décor and refined weave pattern.

Just for comparison sake, this family sedan has the same 0-60 as a $70k 2024 Corvette C8 dedicated sports car. With that said, it won't sound 1/2 as cool. What a crazy time to be a motorhead.

All that sounds amazing... but the typical buyer doesn't care about 99% of that stuff. Sales figures are showing that the cool-factor crowd is tapped out and the next stage of buyers is more about budget and practicality. Those stats are just noise.

And some aren't exactly new - adaptive suspension, variable drive mode, ventilated seats (my last 3 Toyota's have had ventilated leather seats with both heat and cold controls), "performance chassis", "high performance brakes", Carbon Fibre Details... they're not that uncommon.

The new wave of buyers is going to see the price and a range under 300 miles, not much else. It's like us computer nerds. I built computers starting at age 8 and controlled every spec imaginable. But the mass market quickly turned from the nerdy builders to auto configured, pre-built gaming machines for 95% of the market.

 

[RedlineSi]

All that sounds amazing... but the typical buyer doesn't care about 99% of that stuff. Sales figures are showing that the cool-factor crowd is tapped out and the next stage of buyers is more about budget and practicality. Those stats are just noise.

And some aren't exactly new - adaptive suspension, variable drive mode, ventilated seats (my last 3 Toyota's have had ventilated leather seats with both heat and cold controls), "performance chassis", "high performance brakes", Carbon Fibre Details... they're not that uncommon.

The new wave of buyers is going to see the price and a range under 300 miles, not much else. It's like us computer nerds. I built computers starting at age 8 and controlled every spec imaginable. But the mass market quickly turned from the nerdy builders to auto configured, pre-built gaming machines for 95% of the market.

The bigger issue for Tesla is Elmo himself.

 

[CascadeClone]

I’m not sure I follow, are you saying luxury brands should be expected to have more maintenance costs? That’s kind of the point of the article, giving out expected maintenance costs.

Yes, but not just luxury, but also just flat out SIZE of vehicle. Size also drives MSRP, and I think parts generally are in line with MSRP. Independent variables but same effect. I'd agree luxury (and/or Euro) is a bigger factor though.

 

[Jer]

The bigger issue for Tesla is Elmo himself.

Agree. I posted several analysis and studies a few pages back that demonstrate how much of a drag he's put on the company from reputation, to current sales, to future brand loyalty. Not only is it because he has basically turned away 50% of American's - who ironically probably represent 80% of EV buyers - but because he keeps chasing these phantom targets that distract him and the company away from their core bread and butter.

 

[dmclone]

All that sounds amazing... but the typical buyer doesn't care about 99% of that stuff. Sales figures are showing that the cool-factor crowd is tapped out and the next stage of buyers is more about budget and practicality. Those stats are just noise.

And some aren't exactly new - adaptive suspension, variable drive mode, ventilated seats (my last 3 Toyota's have had ventilated leather seats with both heat and cold controls), "performance chassis", "high performance brakes", Carbon Fibre Details... they're not that uncommon.

The new wave of buyers is going to see the price and a range under 300 miles, not much else. It's like us computer nerds. I built computers starting at age 8 and controlled every spec imaginable. But the mass market quickly turned from the nerdy builders to auto configured, pre-built gaming machines for 95% of the market.

That's probably why this is the Performance version. If no one cared about performance, they would still make Toyota Camry's with 90hp instead of 301. Yes, they'll sell a lot more Long Range and Standard models. Just like Ford makes more XLT's than Tremors.

Damn.... you are a fun hater

 

[CycloneEggie]

Agree. I posted several analysis and studies a few pages back that demonstrate how much of a drag he's put on the company from reputation, to current sales, to future brand loyalty. Not only is it because he has basically turned away 50% of American's - who ironically probably represent 80% of EV buyers - but because he keeps chasing these phantom targets that distract him and the company away from their core bread and butter.

Yup, I won't buy a Tesla mainly because of Elon. Also I'm not sure fully EV is ready yet. Wife and I bought used PHEV (Volvo and Honda) last year to replace 10+ year old cars. We love the not using gas for most of our daily driving, but have the flexibility to take them on longer trips and fill up at the pump. Honda PHEV (Clarity) is a nice car, much more space for kids in the back seat and trunk space over the Prius Prime. I wish they continued to make them, but I'm not sure what Honda is planning for the future. The new all electric Prologue was developed with GM so I don't know that its truly a full Honda, I don't know what plans they have to make a PHEV to replace the Clarity or if they are just going fully electric

 

[MJ29]

I know he won't meet his timeline, he never does, but I'm really rooting for Tesla to deliver on autonomy. I think about someone like my mother who voluntarily gave up her car, because her driving skills had diminished. She lives in small town Iowa, and this would be life changing for people like her.

Autonomous driving faces a lot of obstacles, not the least of which is the insurance industry. If a self-driving car is in an accident, who is at fault? How does the coverage work? There are a lot of questions about this in the insurance circles.

 

[dmclone]

Autonomous driving faces a lot of obstacles, not the least of which is the insurance industry. If a self-driving car is in an accident, who is at fault? How does the coverage work? There are a lot of questions about this in the insurance circles.

Yes, that's a huge hurdle. Also, what if self driving kills 100 people a year but saves 5,000 people?

 

[brianhos]

FSD cost going from 12k to 8k ahead of TSLA earnings call

Tesla cuts Full Self Driving cost by 1/3 ahead of earnings call

With the Model 2 cancelled, FSD is more important to Tesla than ever.

arstechnica.com

It's still worth $0.

 

[dmclone]

It's still worth $0.

So you didn't get any benefit out of it this month?

 

[mred]

Yes, that's a huge hurdle. Also, what if self driving kills 100 people a year but saves 5,000 people?

That's the difficulty with something like this. People can see the 100 people killed, but they can't see the 5,000 people saved, because it only shows up in a statistical analysis.

 

[BryceC]

All that sounds amazing... but the typical buyer doesn't care about 99% of that stuff. Sales figures are showing that the cool-factor crowd is tapped out and the next stage of buyers is more about budget and practicality. Those stats are just noise.

And some aren't exactly new - adaptive suspension, variable drive mode, ventilated seats (my last 3 Toyota's have had ventilated leather seats with both heat and cold controls), "performance chassis", "high performance brakes", Carbon Fibre Details... they're not that uncommon.

The new wave of buyers is going to see the price and a range under 300 miles, not much else. It's like us computer nerds. I built computers starting at age 8 and controlled every spec imaginable. But the mass market quickly turned from the nerdy builders to auto configured, pre-built gaming machines for 95% of the market.

I don't care about any of that stuff, but I wonder how much of the sales figures are simply a result of them being pushed by other manufacturers finally. For the longest time it was just Tesla in the market and maybe a couple of weird domestics.

 

[BryceC]

That's the difficulty with something like this. People can see the 100 people killed, but they can't see the 5,000 people saved, because it only shows up in a statistical analysis.

That's always been my argument. If it can be proved out that it's no more dangerous than a human driver it should be allowed immediately. The benchmark should not be zero accidents, it's the expected accidents per miles driven compared to human drivers.

 

[simply1]

That's the difficulty with something like this. People can see the 100 people killed, but they can't see the 5,000 people saved, because it only shows up in a statistical analysis.

I don’t think we have those kind of stats yet, and I’m similarly sensitive to how pedestrians and other unprotected people are treated. There’s not really an ethics framework for it yet.

 

[mred]

I don’t think we have those kind of stats yet

Right, and there's no way to have those stats before widespread adoption. That's yet another hurdle for adoption.

 

[dmclone]

I don't care about any of that stuff, but I wonder how much of the sales figures are simply a result of them being pushed by other manufacturers finally. For the longest time it was just Tesla in the market and maybe a couple of weird domestics.

There are a ton of reasons

Like you said, competition. A lot more great options out there from Kia, Ford, BMW, etc.

Over just the last year, all the competition has moved to the Tesla charging standard, which is huge for the competitors.

In 2023, Tesla sales increased 38% in one year. That's a tough year to go against. On a side note, Elon took over Twitter in 2022.

The Model Y, which last year was the best selling car in the world, is getting dated and is due for a refresh next year. With that said, it's concerning that even with price cuts sales are going down.

The Model 3, just got refreshed but none of the models get the $7,500 tax break, except the new Performance model, which was introduced today.

Tesla has been playing around with prices for the last year, which I'm sure has many people holding off.

Car sales in general are starting to trend down. Companies like Stellantis along with most of the EV makers have laid off staff. The Tesla layoffs seem to take that to another level. Some companies are not seeing decreased sales yet so it can't all be about interest rates.

The boycott Bud Light/Chick-Fil-A people do have decent numbers. Personally, I think it's idiotic but apparently it's real.

 

[dmclone]

These are old numbers:

Tesla’s FSD safety findings were reported as part of the company’s 2022 Impact Report, which among other things, reports the company’s effect on the environment and the world more generally annually. According to this report, the average Tesla equipped with FSD Beta, driven on predominantly non-highway sections of road, crashes 0.31 times per million miles, a dramatic decrease from the average American, who crashes 1.53 times every million miles.

Credit: Tesla Impact Report 2022
Perhaps even more surprising, the incredible effects of Tesla’s autonomous offerings on safety are felt throughout the company’s lineup. According to Tesla’s data, drivers who use the Tesla Autopilot system predominantly on highways only crash 0.18 times per million miles. Further, even Tesla drivers who choose to employ neither of the autonomous systems only crash 0.68 times per million miles, which is still a reduction of more than half compared to the national average.

 

[Cyrealist]

Yes, that's a huge hurdle. Also, what if self driving kills 100 people a year but saves 5,000 people?

I don't believe the public will accept a robot car running amuck and killing people, even if it's a statistical anomoly.

 

[Cyrealist]

Further, even Tesla drivers who choose to employ neither of the autonomous systems only crash 0.68 times per million miles, which is still a reduction of more than half compared to the national average.

Would seem to imply they're different groups of drivers.