Who was the best modern Iowa State Men's Basketball Team?
- Thread starter BeastCY
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Eustachy's style I think was more of a mess and then his behavior wore on people.
I would have liked to have seen what he would have done at ISU without being in a dark place but he seemed to be there even when sober later.
TJ having Green etc. around is why we're seeing this style since UNI was doing it just a few years ago. I don't know for sure but he seems to find a good balance between expecting a lot and being a dude with the players too.
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I doubt TJ has a toxic culture going on with his program like Larry did and the players ultimately like to play for him and seem to have a great culture right now.
I'm still a big fan of Larry and wish things didn't end like they did but I have talked to at least 1 former player under him and know of another story firsthand during that time as well that doesn't paint Larry in a good picture of how he ran things. The biggest thing was Larry had a drinking problem and everyone on the team and in the AD offices knew it too yet since we were winning everyone just ignored it pretty much. Heck there have been stories shared here about people witnessing Larry at a an Ames establishment drunk. That was his biggest downfall probably. The 2nd common theme I have heard is he could be verbally abusive or cross the line at times in practice. I know one person who attended a practice during this time and said Larry chewed out just about everyone at some point during the practice and a lot of it was laced with profanities and personal attacks. I was an RA in the dorms during the 99-00 season and one of my friends was an RA on the floor that Brandon Hawkins lived on and said he came back from a practice one day and was in tears in his room because of something Larry had said to him at practice. He transferred out after the first semester on his 2nd season so I wasn't surprised. Let's not forget we still never got the full story on why Shane Power left after just 1 year although there have been rumors here on that and surely it had something to do with not wanting to play for Larry.
The Larry situation has been discussed many times here but I think the type of culture he and TJ have are no where close in comparison.
And I just don't see this kind of thing going on with TJ's staff and culture.
I'd really like an 'insider' type of write up or something some time on how things are done because the recruits he has lined up surely know what they're signing up for. I.e. players have ways in today's world of knowing enough.
The thing I appreciate about TJ's culture is that it's obvious he allows other coaches and players to make decisions. He isn't breathing down everyone's neck like Izzo does.
From my source, TJ doesn't expect the coaches to be living and breathing basketball 247. He wants them to be able to "shut it off" for family life.
Being a Clone fan for 40 years, there is no question in my mind that the 99/00 Cyclone team was the best ever.
As much as I loved being a Cyclone fan during the Hoiberg era, IMO his teams weren't built to make a deep run in the NCAA Tournament. We had a talented, great group of players that fans adored and fun team to watch. But for me the glory of the Hoiberg era is firmly rooted by his winning Big12 Tournament Championships.
Making a deep run in the NCAA Tournament takes a team that can win a lot of different ways. By that, I mean there will be some games during that 3 week stretch that stud jump shooters don't make shots. So defense or having a low post stud is important. I also think opponents will try to impose their will & style, so a team needs to be able to play uptempo or grind-it-out. That is the big advantage Larry's teams had over Fred.
So far, I think TJ's style of play lends itself to being a solid NCAA Tournament team that can make deep runs. Not sure this year's team has that potential, but will be curious how his future teams (2023/24 & beyond) develop with the talent he is recruiting.
As much as I loved being a Cyclone fan during the Hoiberg era, IMO his teams weren't built to make a deep run in the NCAA Tournament. We had a talented, great group of players that fans adored and fun team to watch. But for me the glory of the Hoiberg era is firmly rooted by his winning Big12 Tournament Championships.
Making a deep run in the NCAA Tournament takes a team that can win a lot of different ways. By that, I mean there will be some games during that 3 week stretch that stud jump shooters don't make shots. So defense or having a low post stud is important. I also think opponents will try to impose their will & style, so a team needs to be able to play uptempo or grind-it-out. That is the big advantage Larry's teams had over Fred.
So far, I think TJ's style of play lends itself to being a solid NCAA Tournament team that can make deep runs. Not sure this year's team has that potential, but will be curious how his future teams (2023/24 & beyond) develop with the talent he is recruiting.
For me, the shot clock and 3-point line are the starting point of modern hoops.
Watching the ACC tournament miniseries and seeing scores of 47-44 in the 70s and early 80s -- that's not modern basketball.
This thread is a reflection of the short history most on this forum have. Same reason why Jake Sullivan was named to all century team. Most undeserving honor accorded in ISU history.
I remember those games being VERY much the exception.
I just associate Larry Bird, Magic Johnson. Patrick Ewing and Michael Jordan's college careers being the start of modern college hoops. Throw in Phi Slamma Jamma or players like Dominique Wilkens college basketball was pretty exciting in the late 70's/early 80's.
I could also agree that "modern basketball" started in 2010 with the emergence of guys like Steph Curry and role that high volume/high make 3 point shooting has had on hoops.
To put in perspective though the 99/00 team played 5 ranked teams TOTAL in Big 12 conference play. Along with a very below average Kansas team.
This year's team is playing their 5th ranked game tonight and we aren't even halfway thru Big 12 play.
Agree that 99/00 was best team, but not as easy as just comparing records.
This year's team is playing their 5th ranked game tonight and we aren't even halfway thru Big 12 play.
Agree that 99/00 was best team, but not as easy as just comparing records.
Outside of a first round scare thry throttled their next two opponents.
And in the conference they were pretty workman like in most wins.
The Big 12 wasn't as strong but that ISU team was good across any conference and really about any era.
Recent teams have had similar or total talent to Fizer/Tinsley team but lacked defense to be real NC contender.
Hope the recruiting classes we have coming and this defense makes this a debate.
Hope the recruiting classes we have coming and this defense makes this a debate.
I think an 8 team tournament would be exciting.
Potential Teams
99-00 - 32-5 and a 2 seed, elite 8
00-01 - 25-6 and a 2 seed
95-96 - 24-9 and a 5 seed
96-97 - 22-9 and a 6 seed, sweet 16
13-14 - 28-8 and a 3 seed, sweet 16
14-15 - 25-9 and a 3 seed
15-16 - 23-12 and a 4 seed, sweet 16
16-17 - 24-11 and a 5 seed
Here is how I would seed them.
1 seed - 99-00
Clear #1 seed, best team ever at Iowa State
2 seed - 13-14
Niang's best team and if he hadn't gotten hurt, a fantastic shot a final 4. Ejim, Kane, freshman Morris and Thomas. I
3 seed - 15-16
Just a crap ton of raw talent. Niang and Naz as seniors. Morris and Thomas as juniors. Nader and Burton as mismatches. McKay protecting the rim.
4 seed - 96-97
Willoughby, Cato, Pratt, Bankhead's best team
5 seed - 00-01
Tinsley, Horton, Sullivan
6 seed - 95-96
Willoughby, Willoughby, Cato, Pratt, Bankhead's first team
7 seed - 14-15
Niang, Morris, Hogue, McKay, Dejean-Jones, Nader
Would probably be higher, but chemistry wasn't quite right. Morris was still just a sophmore the team lacked a bit of leadership.
8 seed - 16-17
I almost made them the 8 seed. Seniors Morris, Naz, Thomas, Burton is great, but they didn't really have a post presence, so I had to drop them out.
1-8 matchup.
No one is stopping Fizer and the only hope of the 8 seed is Burton as a possible mismatch, but I think Stevie Johnson negates that. The 8 seed going small (Burton at the 5) might keep them in the game.
4-5 matchup
I think the 4 seed wins fairly convincingly. Bankhead was a great defender and maybe he covers Tinsley some. I think I remember Willoughby was also pretty good defensively. I think Cato would give Shirley and Rancik fits inside, as would Pratt.
3-6 matchup
McKay and Cato are a good matchup. This was Cato's first year. He got better offensively the next year. The Pratt/Burton mismatchup is also pretty cool. I'd imagine that Bankhead covers Niang. Willoughby was great, but I think Morris, Naz, Thomas and Nader give the 3 seed a big edge in the backcourt.
2-7 matchup
The senior leadership of Ejim and Kane would be too much for the 7 seed to handle.
1 seed versus 4 seed.
Tinsley - Holloway
Nurse - Willoughby
Horton - Bankhead
Johnson - Pratt
Fizer - Cato
Bench
Rancik, Shirley, Bradon Hawkins versus Freshman Stevie Johnson, Klay Edwards, Tony Rampton, Freshman Paul Shirley
Would there be any substitutions in this game? Seriously, maybe none at all. Cato might be able to slightly contain Fizer. I'd probably put Bankhead on Tinsley, Holloway on Nurse and Willoughby on Horton. Pratt would have to have a huge game. Fizer and company would be too much.
2 seed versus 3 seed
Kane - Morris
Morris - Thomas
Ejim - Nader
Hogue - Niang
Niang - McKay
Bench
Naz, Thomas versus Burton, Hallice Cook
This is a hell of a matchup. I think it'd be a really close game.
1 seed versus 2 seed
Tinsley - Kane
Nurse - Morris
Horton - Ejim
Johnson - Hogue
Fizer - Niang
Intriguing matchup. Fizer's the best player, but Niang (and Burton off the bench) give that defense a tough challenge. With Ejim, Hogue and Kane, that Hoiberg team had more toughness than most.
Potential Teams
99-00 - 32-5 and a 2 seed, elite 8
00-01 - 25-6 and a 2 seed
95-96 - 24-9 and a 5 seed
96-97 - 22-9 and a 6 seed, sweet 16
13-14 - 28-8 and a 3 seed, sweet 16
14-15 - 25-9 and a 3 seed
15-16 - 23-12 and a 4 seed, sweet 16
16-17 - 24-11 and a 5 seed
Here is how I would seed them.
1 seed - 99-00
Clear #1 seed, best team ever at Iowa State
2 seed - 13-14
Niang's best team and if he hadn't gotten hurt, a fantastic shot a final 4. Ejim, Kane, freshman Morris and Thomas. I
3 seed - 15-16
Just a crap ton of raw talent. Niang and Naz as seniors. Morris and Thomas as juniors. Nader and Burton as mismatches. McKay protecting the rim.
4 seed - 96-97
Willoughby, Cato, Pratt, Bankhead's best team
5 seed - 00-01
Tinsley, Horton, Sullivan
6 seed - 95-96
Willoughby, Willoughby, Cato, Pratt, Bankhead's first team
7 seed - 14-15
Niang, Morris, Hogue, McKay, Dejean-Jones, Nader
Would probably be higher, but chemistry wasn't quite right. Morris was still just a sophmore the team lacked a bit of leadership.
8 seed - 16-17
I almost made them the 8 seed. Seniors Morris, Naz, Thomas, Burton is great, but they didn't really have a post presence, so I had to drop them out.
1-8 matchup.
No one is stopping Fizer and the only hope of the 8 seed is Burton as a possible mismatch, but I think Stevie Johnson negates that. The 8 seed going small (Burton at the 5) might keep them in the game.
4-5 matchup
I think the 4 seed wins fairly convincingly. Bankhead was a great defender and maybe he covers Tinsley some. I think I remember Willoughby was also pretty good defensively. I think Cato would give Shirley and Rancik fits inside, as would Pratt.
3-6 matchup
McKay and Cato are a good matchup. This was Cato's first year. He got better offensively the next year. The Pratt/Burton mismatchup is also pretty cool. I'd imagine that Bankhead covers Niang. Willoughby was great, but I think Morris, Naz, Thomas and Nader give the 3 seed a big edge in the backcourt.
2-7 matchup
The senior leadership of Ejim and Kane would be too much for the 7 seed to handle.
1 seed versus 4 seed.
Tinsley - Holloway
Nurse - Willoughby
Horton - Bankhead
Johnson - Pratt
Fizer - Cato
Bench
Rancik, Shirley, Bradon Hawkins versus Freshman Stevie Johnson, Klay Edwards, Tony Rampton, Freshman Paul Shirley
Would there be any substitutions in this game? Seriously, maybe none at all. Cato might be able to slightly contain Fizer. I'd probably put Bankhead on Tinsley, Holloway on Nurse and Willoughby on Horton. Pratt would have to have a huge game. Fizer and company would be too much.
2 seed versus 3 seed
Kane - Morris
Morris - Thomas
Ejim - Nader
Hogue - Niang
Niang - McKay
Bench
Naz, Thomas versus Burton, Hallice Cook
This is a hell of a matchup. I think it'd be a really close game.
1 seed versus 2 seed
Tinsley - Kane
Nurse - Morris
Horton - Ejim
Johnson - Hogue
Fizer - Niang
Intriguing matchup. Fizer's the best player, but Niang (and Burton off the bench) give that defense a tough challenge. With Ejim, Hogue and Kane, that Hoiberg team had more toughness than most.
I heard a national guy who watched our practices describe it as "so much fun"...can't see that happening with an LE practice for someone observing or participating.
Sounds like TJ has a formula where they work their tails off but still enjoy the process.
I've long found it geekily fascinating how the point difference actually increased from R64 to S16, even as opponent seeding got better.
(15) Central Connecticut State - won by 10
(7) Auburn - won by 19
(6) UCLA - won by 24
Obviously it's the 00 team, but I'd be curious to watch that team play one of the Georges teams. Or a TJ team, for that matter.
I think the 00 team would win 5 out of 7, but it'd be fun to watch.
I think the 00 team would win 5 out of 7, but it'd be fun to watch.
Absolutely and it isn't that close. That team was the best team in the nation that year. After the blarge BS call, Michigan State walked to the national title. It should have been ISU's title.
Exactly, Granted it is small sample size but just don't see upset players on the bench and these guys have shown us nothing but a willingness to put in the work so far. All the "behind the scenes" stuff that gets posted the players seem to genuinely enjoy being a part of this team and seem to have a good relationship with their coach. Have a feeling TJ probably is open about his expectations and you either buy in or ISU is not the place for you.
The former player I talked to that played for Larry said that 99-00 team didn't hang out much outside of practice and games, especially Fizer and Tinsley almost made it a point to distance themselves most of the time. They all kind of had their own small groups so the locker room was more business like and not a cohesive atmosphere. Also mentioned Larry didn't hang out with the team much outside of practice and meetings and traveling on his own for road game was part of that problem too.
At the same time period I got to know some of the women's basketball players and they did a lot together as a team and Fennelly had the team over to his house a lot. That program has always had a positive vibe to it because that's how Fennelly treats his players. He's tough on them at times but end of the day they know he has their best interests.
