Why does OSU still get so much love as bubble team?

[andymhallman]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

It would be ironic if Okie State doesn't make the tourney since they are probably better than most teams that will be in the tournament. They let Kansas build a huge lead on them in Lawrence before finally closing to within two points at the very end, certainly the most Kansas has been tested at home apart from its loss to San Diego State.

I think everybody knows Okie State is a better team than Baylor even though they might not finish above the Bears in the standings. Despite their seven-game losing streak, Okie State is probably better than West Virginia, too, so if you're going to take six teams from the Big XII I would go with Kansas, Iowa State, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas State and Oklahoma State.

Remember, Kansas still has to go to Stillwater this year. I would bet even money on Okie State in that game, and if they win I think their resume is good enough to get in.

 

[Dryburn]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Let's not forget that before and when the season first started, most analysts and writers were expecting Okie State to possibly be the team that would finally put an end to KU's reign on Big 12 titles. Well, the season did not quite play out that way. So, I think part of it is just those same people afraid to admit they were that wrong, and who still like this team.

Okie State, with Smart, can still be a very good, dangerous team, although they are still missing a couple of other players and lack depth. Personally, I don't have a problem if they make the tourney, as long as they still lose the last regular season game to ISU. The more from the Big 12 in the tourney the better. I hope Baylor makes it too, just not at the expense of an ISU loss.

 

[Sloup]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Iowa State got in last year with 10 losses, the worst of which being at Texas Tech. This year, Oklahoma State has 10 losses, the worst of which being at Texas Tech. If they can beat Kansas at home, they should be in.

 

[theyork]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

They almost beat us and they almost beat Kansas. With Smart on the floor I really think they can beat anybody in the country on the right night.

I absolutely think they are a bubble team.

this is exactly my point. yes they can beat anybody, but they haven't. they are getting undeserved respect based on potential rather than actual performance. isu can beat anybody on the right night too. should they be a #1 seed because of it? no. that is ridiculous. so why should osu get in as a 12 seed because they can be good (but haven't been).

all the media claims they wouldn't have dropped those 3 if they had smart? based on what? they were 4-6 in big 12 play WITH smart.

isn't playing in the tourney supposed to reward the teams who have proven on the court they deserve to be in? that is my problem. osu has only proven on the court that they aren't that great. they still have games to prove me wrong, but based on results rather than potential, they don't deserve to be in at this point.

 

[ISUFan22]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Potential is a short way of saying you haven't done anything yet - and that pretty much describes Oklahoma State. Real good team that is just not consistent and underachieves. Not a Smart hater - but that does seem to describe him quite well and teams often reflect their leaders.

They would have to impress down the stretch to get in - but I hope not at our expense.

 

[Bobber]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

this is exactly my point. yes they can beat anybody, but they haven't. they are getting undeserved respect based on potential rather than actual performance. isu can beat anybody on the right night too. should they be a #1 seed because of it? no. that is ridiculous. so why should osu get in as a 12 seed because they can be good (but haven't been).

all the media claims they wouldn't have dropped those 3 if they had smart? based on what? they were 4-6 in big 12 play WITH smart.

isn't playing in the tourney supposed to reward the teams who have proven on the court they deserve to be in? that is my problem. osu has only proven on the court that they aren't that great. they still have games to prove me wrong, but based on results rather than potential, they don't deserve to be in at this point.

My god, the Big 12 is not the Big East or the Patriot League.

You really think OSU is a NIT team?

 

[Amesboy]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

David Ubben 2/21/2014
Big 12 Mailbag: Can Oklahoma State make NCAA tournament? | FOX Sports on MSN
"If Oklahoma State can win four of five and get to 8-10 and then win two games in Kansas City, they're going to be very tough to keep out of the field. I could also see a bid if OSU won three of five, but won two of three in games against KU, K-State and Iowa State down the stretch."
I don't see this happening and if they somehow could go 4/5 it would be a miracle and then winning two or three in Kansas City. Crazier things have happened but Smart is back. Looking at the RPI they are at 10th in both conference and all games.

 

[twocoach]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

i know lunardi finally has them out of the dance, but still. one of the announcers during a halftime report said something like "forget their big 12 record they will be in the tourney because of big wins". not an exact quote but something to that effect.

really? who? they are 2-5 against the top 25. they beat memphis at home and beat colorado at home who is no longer ranked. only 1 of those five losses was smartless.

5 losses to unranked teams

they are in sole possession of 8th place in the big 12 and lost to the 9th place team.

if they win the games they are supposed to and lose the games they are supposed to they will end up 2-2 down the stretch. 19-12 overall 7-11 big 12.

until they prove it, they shouldn't even be in the conversation. unless they beat ku at home (possible) i think they have to be out of the tourney right? even if they go 3-1 down the stretch they still have a weak resume.

Go look at the resumes of other teams on the bubble, compare them to each other and you'll see why. Okie State has three good wins. Most bubble teams barely have any. Remember, bubble teams are mediocre teams, not Top 25 teams. Don't compare their resume to good teams.

 

[FDWxMan]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Go look at the resumes of other teams on the bubble, compare them to each other and you'll see why. Okie State has three good wins. Most bubble teams barely have any. Remember, bubble teams are mediocre teams, not Top 25 teams. Don't compare their resume to good teams.

What twocoach said. Bubble is horrible.

Lunardi's last 3 in and Oklahoma State. Which three do you take?
Pretty tough to not be "on the bubble" this year.

	Team A	Team B	Team C	Team D
D1 Record	16-11	17-10	17-10	19-7
RPI	60	48	62	40
SOS	27	24	58	72
Neutral	3-2	4-1	2-2	2-1
Road	2-6	2-6	3-5	7-3
vs RPI 25	2-3	1-5	1-4	2-4
vs RPI 50	3-4	3-9	1-4	2-5
vs RPI 100	6-8	6-9	6-9	5-6
vs RPI 150	11-10	10-10	11-10	8-6
vs sub 150	5-1	7-0	6-0	11-1

 

[bostrem00]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Because sportswriters who pick Oklahoma State as the chic pick to win the conference don't want to look like complete rubes.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Not sure why so many are whining about OSU being discussed for a tourney birth. Are they a tourney team as of right now? Maybe not. But the more teams being discussed for the tourney that ISU has beaten is only good for ISU - makes our resume look better.

 

[twocoach]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Lunardi's last eight teams on the outside looking in right now:

1) West Virginia: good - 4 Top 50 wins, bad - 2 100+ losses, swept by fellow bubbler Okie State and split w/ Baylor
2) Richmond: good - 2 Top 50 wins, bad - 1 100+ loss, beat fellow bubbler Dayton
3) Baylor: good - 5 top 50 wins, bad - 1 100+ loss, swept fellow bubbler Okie State, beat Dayton and split w/ WV
4) Okie State:good - 3 Top 50 wins, bad - 1 100+ losses, swept fellow bubbler West Virginia, swept by Baylor and beat La. Tech
5) Oregon: good - 1 Top 50 win over barely in BYU, bad - 1 100+ loss,
6) Dayton: good - 3 Top 50 wins, bad - 3 100+ losses, lost to fellow bubblers Baylor and Richmond
7) Southern Miss: good - 1 Top 50 win, bad - 3 100+ losses, beat fellow bubbler La. Tech
8) Louisiana Tech: good - 1 Top 50 win, bad - 2 100+ losses, lost to fellow bubblers Okie State and Southern Miss.

THESE are the types of teams that find themselves competing with Okie State to creep back into the field. So yes, they belong in the conversation. I think Smart will lead them back into the field. Providence and Georgetown are both in the "last four in" and both have games against ranked teams remaining that can either keep them in or drop them out. Okie State pretty much has to win one of their two remaining tough games (home vs. Kansas, @Iowa State) to get in.

Three of Iowa State's last four games of the year will be against very desperate teams currently OUT of the tourney that will be fighting with all they have trying to get in the tourney in West Virginia, Baylor and Okie State. Those will not be easy games at all.

 

[JAB]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Lunardi's last eight teams on the outside looking in right now:

1) West Virginia: good - 4 Top 50 wins, bad - 2 100+ losses, swept by fellow bubbler Okie State and split w/ Baylor
2) Richmond: good - 2 Top 50 wins, bad - 1 100+ loss, beat fellow bubbler Dayton
3) Baylor: good - 5 top 50 wins, bad - 1 100+ loss, swept fellow bubbler Okie State, beat Dayton and split w/ WV
4) Okie State:good - 3 Top 50 wins, bad - 1 100+ losses, swept fellow bubbler West Virginia, swept by Baylor and beat La. Tech
5) Oregon: good - 1 Top 50 win over barely in BYU, bad - 1 100+ loss,
6) Dayton: good - 3 Top 50 wins, bad - 3 100+ losses, lost to fellow bubblers Baylor and Richmond
7) Southern Miss: good - 1 Top 50 win, bad - 3 100+ losses, beat fellow bubbler La. Tech
8) Louisiana Tech: good - 1 Top 50 win, bad - 2 100+ losses, lost to fellow bubblers Okie State and Southern Miss.

THESE are the types of teams that find themselves competing with Okie State to creep back into the field. So yes, they belong in the conversation. I think Smart will lead them back into the field. Providence and Georgetown are both in the "last four in" and both have games against ranked teams remaining that can either keep them in or drop them out. Okie State pretty much has to win one of their two remaining tough games (home vs. Kansas, @Iowa State) to get in.

Three of Iowa State's last four games of the year will be against very desperate teams currently OUT of the tourney that will be fighting with all they have trying to get in the tourney in West Virginia, Baylor and Okie State. Those will not be easy games at all.

BRACKET MATRIX - Check it out. Average of 89 respected bracketologists. OSU is an #11 seed and included by 70 of the 89. Joe Lunardi is not the sole authority.

 

[twocoach]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

BRACKET MATRIX - Check it out. Average of 89 respected bracketologists. OSU is an #11 seed and included by 70 of the 89. Joe Lunardi is not the sole authority.

So what's your point? Do you think that Okie State and Baylor are going to feel that their spots in the tourney are comfortable because of that website? They are playing to get in and will be going at max intensity.

And the first "respected bracketologist" I clicked on at random took me to a site called "Drew's Bracketology - A Gopher-centric bracketology blog". It's written by some guy that works at a bank in Minneapolis and has a personal blog. Perhaps we have a different view of "respected". It sounds more like it is an average of any consistently posted bracket they can find.

 

[cyclones500]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Lunardi's last eight teams on the outside looking in right now:

1) West Virginia: good - 4 Top 50 wins, bad - 2 100+ losses, swept by fellow bubbler Okie State and split w/ Baylor
2) Richmond: good - 2 Top 50 wins, bad - 1 100+ loss, beat fellow bubbler Dayton
3) Baylor: good - 5 top 50 wins, bad - 1 100+ loss, swept fellow bubbler Okie State, beat Dayton and split w/ WV
4) Okie State:good - 3 Top 50 wins, bad - 1 100+ losses, swept fellow bubbler West Virginia, swept by Baylor and beat La. Tech
5) Oregon: good - 1 Top 50 win over barely in BYU, bad - 1 100+ loss,
6) Dayton: good - 3 Top 50 wins, bad - 3 100+ losses, lost to fellow bubblers Baylor and Richmond
7) Southern Miss: good - 1 Top 50 win, bad - 3 100+ losses, beat fellow bubbler La. Tech
8) Louisiana Tech: good - 1 Top 50 win, bad - 2 100+ losses, lost to fellow bubblers Okie State and Southern Miss.

THESE are the types of teams that find themselves competing with Okie State to creep back into the field. So yes, they belong in the conversation. I think Smart will lead them back into the field. Providence and Georgetown are both in the "last four in" and both have games against ranked teams remaining that can either keep them in or drop them out. Okie State pretty much has to win one of their two remaining tough games (home vs. Kansas, @Iowa State) to get in.

Three of Iowa State's last four games of the year will be against very desperate teams currently OUT of the tourney that will be fighting with all they have trying to get in the tourney in West Virginia, Baylor and Okie State. Those will not be easy games at all.

Good examples of what comparisons we have to make right now. It's possible to go even another step up the rung: compare Oklahoma State to teams that are probably safely in the field right now — such as Xavier — and OSU compares favorably.


Oklahoma State vs. Xavier


It’s understandable why people would think OSU is "out" now, because it seems like a preseason Final Four contender that hits a bad stretch should just drop out of contention. But when your tournament status was no worse than "secure" for the first 3 months of a season, you have to fall a long way to miss the boat.

 

[JAB]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

So what's your point? Do you think that Okie State and Baylor are going to feel that their spots in the tourney are comfortable because of that website? They are playing to get in and will be going at max intensity.

And the first "respected bracketologist" I clicked on at random took me to a site called "Drew's Bracketology - A Gopher-centric bracketology blog". It's written by some guy that works at a bank in Minneapolis and has a personal blog. Perhaps we have a different view of "respected". It sounds more like it is an average of any consistently posted bracket they can find.

"Drew's Bracketology - A Gopher-centric bracketology blog" is 1 of the 89 posted at BRACKET MATRIX. This site includes bracketologists who have a proven track record of accurately predicting the NCAA Tournament Field. They have been doing this for several years.

My point is that I would be viewing a wide cross section of opinions to understand what chances a team has of making the NCAAs and what their seed will be - it statistically based and you get a feel for variance of seed.

 

[twocoach]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

"Drew's Bracketology - A Gopher-centric bracketology blog" is 1 of the 89 posted at BRACKET MATRIX. This site includes bracketologists who have a proven track record of accurately predicting the NCAA Tournament Field. They have been doing this for several years.

My point is that I would be viewing a wide cross section of opinions to understand what chances a team has of making the NCAAs and what their seed will be - it statistically based and you get a feel for variance of seed.

I prefer to form my own opinion of the chances a team has to make the tourney based on my own research and gut feel. Right or wrong, it's more fun to do the research yourself than to glean off the research of others and assume they put in any effort to form their opinions. But thanks for the link. All I was pointing out is that Okie State's mediocre resume is bubble-worthy (which was the question of the O.P. in forming this thread) because the rest of the people in the same spot have very similar resumes.

 

[32Cyclone Fan]

When Oklahoma State lost to ISU that made them four losses in their last five games all played with Marcus Smart. What might surprise you is the only game OK State won in that stretch was a game Smart fouled out with only 4 points in 25 minutes. Oklahoma State lost 8 of 9 games in a row which shouldn't even put them in the AP Top 25 for a long time to come, at least it wouldn't for any other team. Many teams could say well we were in a slump and you know we are better but they don't get a free pass. I don't know of any team that has gotten into the tournament based on what experts thought they could have been. The only way Oklahoma State should get into the NCAA tournament is if they win the Big 12 Conference tournament and then get the automatic bid.

The best 50 teams do not get into the tournament it is about the top 32 and not even all of the AP Top 25 made it last year. The other spots have to be available for conference tournament champions. When the tournament champion has already earned a spot then it leaves room for a few bubble teams.

A couple of years ago a team apparently won their conference tournament and made the NCAA tournament with a losing record. I don't feel that is fair to much better teams that don't get a bid. I would like to see the smallest of the Division I schools be in a separate division as the #16 and other lower seeds don't do anything for the #1 and other high seeds game either.

 

[Iastfan112]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Lunardi's last 3 in and Oklahoma State. Which three do you take?
Pretty tough to not be "on the bubble" this year.

	Team A	Team B	Team C	Team D
D1 Record	16-11	17-10	17-10	19-7
RPI	60	48	62	40
SOS	27	24	58	72
Neutral	3-2	4-1	2-2	2-1
Road	2-6	2-6	3-5	7-3
vs RPI 25	2-3	1-5	1-4	2-4
vs RPI 50	3-4	3-9	1-4	2-5
vs RPI 100	6-8	6-9	6-9	5-6
vs RPI 150	11-10	10-10	11-10	8-6
vs sub 150	5-1	7-0	6-0	11-1

Georgetown = A, OSU = B, Providence = C, St. Joes = D

A, B, D would be my picks

 

[WooBadger18]

Re: why does OSU still get to much love as bubble team?

Lunardi's last 3 in and Oklahoma State. Which three do you take?
Pretty tough to not be "on the bubble" this year.

	Team A	Team B	Team C	Team D
D1 Record	16-11	17-10	17-10	19-7
RPI	60	48	62	40
SOS	27	24	58	72
Neutral	3-2	4-1	2-2	2-1
Road	2-6	2-6	3-5	7-3
vs RPI 25	2-3	1-5	1-4	2-4
vs RPI 50	3-4	3-9	1-4	2-5
vs RPI 100	6-8	6-9	6-9	5-6
vs RPI 150	11-10	10-10	11-10	8-6
vs sub 150	5-1	7-0	6-0	11-1

Georgetown = A, OSU = B, Providence = C, St. Joes = D

I take B,D,A in that order. The reason I put B in front of D is because to me strength of schedule is really important. I know you have to win games, but teams that have tougher schedules are going to lose more games so you do have to take that into account.