Williams Blog: Apathy…I think not, Gilstrap/Brackins notes

[ISUFan22]

For the record, I didn't HAVE to write the article. I am just sick to death of people overusing a word that is inaccurate in this situation. That's it.

All in all, I think that the conversation on this thread has been great. I don't agree with you all, but that doesn't mean that you are wrong. Good job to all.

I think his "owner of the site has to write an article" line was not that you were forced to write it - but you "had" to write it to address the topic.

And he's right - it's a sad state when we're "forced" to discuss what is and isn't fan apathy. Would be much more fun to "fight" over whether this team will finish 5th or 6th in the conference and debate who we'd play in the first round of the Big 12 tournament - as well as have "bawls" over what seed we will be in the NCAA tournament.

This program has given us zero reasons to discuss these things once actual play begins.

 

[Tre4ISU]

You literally confused me here.

You say that people gave up on Morgans team . The thing I find funny about that is some of the same people calling for Mac to leave would say that we needed to keep Morgan then. I said some not all.

 

[StLouisClone]

You say that people gave up on Morgans team . The thing I find funny about that is some of the same people calling for Mac to leave would say that we needed to keep Morgan then. I said some not all.

I'm one of those fans that said we needed to keep Morgan. I thought it was absolutely foolish to fire Morgan when he had a 50-34 record and won an NCAA tourney game only one season prior. I haven't 100% made up my mind about Mac, but I will at the end of the season. Right now it looks like Mac will have to go and I think Pollard has no one to blame but himself. He set the standard when he fired Morgan after only three seasons and with a winning record to boot.

I think this website was created right around the time Morgan was fired. It would be interesting to dig up one of the old threads.

 

[CycloneWarning]

I think this website was created right around the time Morgan was fired. It would be interesting to dig up one of the old threads.

IIRC, this website was the first to land the story that Morgan was going to be fired and is probably one of the defining moments in it success today.

At the time, it was fairly stunning news that a winning coach with only 3 years was going to get canned, but there was a "dangerous" story on CBSSportsline that ISU may have been involved with shady dealings with D1 Scheduling. As it turned out, there was no fire after the smoke in that regard, but it definitely gave JP the cover he needed to can Morgan.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I'm one of those fans that said we needed to keep Morgan. I thought it was absolutely foolish to fire Morgan when he had a 50-34 record and won an NCAA tourney game only one season prior. I haven't 100% made up my mind about Mac, but I will at the end of the season. Right now it looks like Mac will have to go and I think Pollard has no one to blame but himself. He set the standard when he fired Morgan after only three seasons and with a winning record to boot.

I think this website was created right around the time Morgan was fired. It would be interesting to dig up one of the old threads.

I'm not saying either way and really the argument comes down to why Morgan was fired. I think he was fired because the AD wanted to make sure to stay clean and perhaps he had reason to believe it wasn't going to be. My point was that another poster stated that the fan base became disconnected at the end of Morgans tenure. He would have gotten them back with a good start to the next season. The same thing is supposedly happening now with regards to attendance. Fans of ISU can quickly be regained. Most of the fans of ISU have a connection, they aren't fans just to be fans like a lot of Hawkeye fans are. A lot are alumni, or they have a specific connection to the University itself. I just think we are different than a lot of fan bases.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

ap⋅a⋅thy

   /ˈæp

ə

θi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ap-uh-thee] Show IPA –noun, plural -thies. 1. absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement.


So which of these is s symptom that someone on this board is showing? It seems to me there is interest if you are looking at a MBB thread and especially if you are commenting.

Try a lack of excitement. That is what happens when going into each game you know the team is going to lose and look bad doing it.

I think your labeling of some of the ISU fan base and members on this board as fair weather fans is comical. There always has to be an elitist fringe of the fan base that talks down to everyone from up on their high horse. Based on your posts it should be safe for me to assume you are a long time season ticket holder, a donor in the top 10% of the highest donations (since season ticket holders and other donors are only at fair weather fan status and not at your "super fan" status), etc...

I also find it funny how you and few others can determine how others feel about the program because they post on a message board. Much like going to games coming on CF and reading the opinions of other fans and posting their own opinions is for entertainment purposes. It isn't up to you to declare who is a good fan and who isn't. Who made you the judge and the jury? Much like Tim Tebow and Jesus we appreciate you enduring the pain of attending all of the ISU basketball games in our sinful absence. Which game will they be nailing you up on the hoop to pay for all of our sins as untrue fans since you are the Savior of Cyclone Nation? Maybe that will encourage some of us to buy tickets.....

 

[jsb]

IIRC, this website was the first to land the story that Morgan was going to be fired and is probably one of the defining moments in it success today.

At the time, it was fairly stunning news that a winning coach with only 3 years was going to get canned, but there was a "dangerous" story on CBSSportsline that ISU may have been involved with shady dealings with D1 Scheduling. As it turned out, there was no fire after the smoke in that regard, but it definitely gave JP the cover he needed to can Morgan.

That D-1 scheduling stuff was slightly shady, I think. Even if there wasn't any illegal payments/kickbacks, it showed an extremely lazy coaching staff who wasn't spending Iowa State's money wisely. It's not like D-1 was getting us games with good mid-major teams or something. It was getting us crap games and we were paying them for getting the exact same games that we could have gotten.

I'd bet a lot of money that there was something fishy with that.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Try a lack of excitement. That is what happens when going into each game you know the team is going to lose and look bad doing it.

I think your labeling of some of the ISU fan base and members on this board as fair weather fans is comical. There always has to be an elitist fringe of the fan base that talks down to everyone from up on their high horse. Based on your posts it should be safe for me to assume you are a long time season ticket holder, a donor in the top 10% of the highest donations (since season ticket holders and other donors are only at fair weather fan status and not at your "super fan" status), etc...

I also find it funny how you and few others can determine how others feel about the program because they post on a message board. Much like going to games coming on CF and reading the opinions of other fans and posting their own opinions is for entertainment purposes. It isn't up to you to declare who is a good fan and who isn't. Who made you the judge and the jury? Much like Tim Tebow and Jesus we appreciate you enduring the pain of attending all of the ISU basketball games in our sinful absence. Which game will they be nailing you up on the hoop to pay for all of our sins as untrue fans since you are the Savior of Cyclone Nation? Maybe that will encourage some of us to buy tickets.....

With regard to fair weather fans. I was classifying what someone else was describing. I was not talking down to anyone. I said they existed, just as they do with any fan base. The argument was that if there was lost interest right now it would come back with a few wins. Is that not a fair weather fan? The fact that someone quits going to games now but if we were to win they would come back is the very definition of a fair weather fan. That is not an opinion that is a fact. I never claimed to be a "super-fan" as you called it. I just stated that personally I will be fan and I will support the same no matter the circumstances. That will not be what everyone does and that is fine. It's their money and their time. I don't think it makes some less of a person or really less of a fan and that is almost exactly what I am arguing. Just because someone does not go to the game does not mean they do not care. In fact that was what was being argued against me.

As for the message board. I was not determining how they felt. I was determining they feel. The opinion does not matter. What matters is that there is an opinion. I also stated that I do not attend all of the games, in fact I attend very few because my career does not allow it. However, my sttendance is not determined by past performance. I will go to games when it is possible and I do hold season tickets.

I do not consider myself a fantastic ISU mens bball fan. I would say I am more so for football. Besides that was not the argument in the first place. The discussion was about if people still care and if they still care if they don't go to games. I contend that going to games is not the sole indicator of peoples caring or not caring about the program. Does it indicate that people are losing a little interest? Yes, but not completely.

I apologize if I cam off as an "elitist" fan. That was not at all my intent. My only intent was to say that people still care. As I said, I am not a great ISU bball fan in every sense of what it means to be a great fan. I do not know all of the history, I do not attend every game. I get to the ones I can, I still buy season tickets in support, and I keep up with every game and watch when I can but I am not there every game cheering my *** off like I know some on here do. I salute those people.

 

[louienad25]

This is wrong, if they aren't still going that is not a die hard. If four years of mediocre to bad basketball will send you away then you are not a die hard. Die hard fans are the ones that will still go and cheer their ***** off. What you're talking about are fair weather fans. They will be back at the first sign of success.

First you contradicted yourself, then you just answered your own question.

People will come back when there is a reason to believe that we can be successful. The problem is that they aren't seeing anything currently happening that makes them think that it will get better with this regime.

People forgave how bad this product was for three years because there was a serious lack of talent on the floor. Now, people see that we had a pre-season first team selection, and the newcomer of the year. So that would indicate that the talent has improved. Then the same old problems rear their head, people leaving the program, poor effort, NO fundamentals.

That is what caused people to throw up their hands. Not how "die hard" of a fan they may be.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

With regard to fair weather fans. I was classifying what someone else was describing. I was not talking down to anyone. I said they existed, just as they do with any fan base. The argument was that if there was lost interest right now it would come back with a few wins. Is that not a fair weather fan? The fact that someone quits going to games now but if we were to win they would come back is the very definition of a fair weather fan. That is not an opinion that is a fact. I never claimed to be a "super-fan" as you called it. I just stated that personally I will be fan and I will support the same no matter the circumstances. That will not be what everyone does and that is fine. It's their money and their time. I don't think it makes some less of a person or really less of a fan and that is almost exactly what I am arguing. Just because someone does not go to the game does not mean they do not care. In fact that was what was being argued against me.

As for the message board. I was not determining how they felt. I was determining they feel. The opinion does not matter. What matters is that there is an opinion. I also stated that I do not attend all of the games, in fact I attend very few because my career does not allow it. However, my sttendance is not determined by past performance. I will go to games when it is possible and I do hold season tickets.

I do not consider myself a fantastic ISU mens bball fan. I would say I am more so for football. Besides that was not the argument in the first place. The discussion was about if people still care and if they still care if they don't go to games. I contend that going to games is not the sole indicator of peoples caring or not caring about the program. Does it indicate that people are losing a little interest? Yes, but not completely.

I apologize if I cam off as an "elitist" fan. That was not at all my intent. My only intent was to say that people still care. As I said, I am not a great ISU bball fan in every sense of what it means to be a great fan. I do not know all of the history, I do not attend every game. I get to the ones I can, I still buy season tickets in support, and I keep up with every game and watch when I can but I am not there every game cheering my *** off like I know some on here do. I salute those people.

I am in a total state of apathy with ISU basketball. I may post in basketball threads because it is entertaining and nothing more. I appreciate that you are a Cyclone fan and my post was just overloaded with sarcasm so there was no need for you to apologize for anything.

 

[jdoggivjc]

First you contradicted yourself, then you just answered your own question.

People will come back when there is a reason to believe that we can be successful. The problem is that they aren't seeing anything currently happening that makes them think that it will get better with this regime.

People forgave how bad this product was for three years because there was a serious lack of talent on the floor. Now, people see that we had a pre-season first team selection, and the newcomer of the year. So that would indicate that the talent has improved. Then the same old problems rear their head, people leaving the program, poor effort, NO fundamentals.

That is what caused people to throw up their hands. Not how "die hard" of a fan they may be.

Precisely. You just gotta love a fan who starts proclaiming that other fans aren't "die hard" fans because they don't act as extreme as the accuser.

Like I said, I completely agree with what Cowherd said earlier today - these self-proclaimed "die hard" fans can actually be an extreme detriment to a team. If an entire fan base continues to show up and show full support through the thick and thin, what incentive is there for changes to be made? I mean, regardless of whether you are a McDermott supporter or not, this team cannot continue going down this road if it wants to see success anytime in the near future. I think everyone agrees with that. But how is the coach/AD going to get the message that changes need to be made if the fan base is supposed to show 100% support at all times and just completely ignore the gigantic elephant in the room that there are major problems with this team?

And I absolutely resent my fanhood being called into question just because I can no longer be on board with this team (not to be confused with being in the "fire McDermott" bandwagon). As I said earlier, I am Cyclone through and through, and the six years I spent there as well as the thousands of dollars I've spent on merchandise for my family would confirm that. And for a school such as ISU, you don't do that unless you are a Cyclone through and through. This isn't exactly USC we're talking about here- even if the colors are similar.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

You say that people gave up on Morgans team . The thing I find funny about that is some of the same people calling for Mac to leave would say that we needed to keep Morgan then. I said some not all.

I was definitely one that had given up on Morgan. His teams style of play and lack of discipline drove me crazy to the point that I could hardly stand to watch the team play so eventually I quit attending games and didn't bother to watch them on tv either. Then GMAC was hired and I watched some games but I wasn't fully sold on the program. Needless to say there are no selling points now. The last ISU game I attended was the home game against Georgia in the NIT. That was over 4 years ago.

College athletics are a business and thankfully there are other programs that ISU can sell. I attend Wrestling and Football on a regular basis and if not for other products ISU basketball would be out of business.

I do support JP but this GMAC contract deal is the first major issue that I have with him. To lock this guy up in the manner that it was done was totally irresponsible on JP's part. Now our program is going to have to suffer on in total chaos and we can't afford to get rid of him. What a huge, huge, huge mistake. Someone in the ISU legal team should be fired for reviewing this contract and giving it approval the way it was written up. Giving automatic contract extensions based on off the court issues without ever coaching a game? That is insane. :no:

 

[louienad25]

That D-1 scheduling stuff was slightly shady, I think. Even if there wasn't any illegal payments/kickbacks, it showed an extremely lazy coaching staff who wasn't spending Iowa State's money wisely. It's not like D-1 was getting us games with good mid-major teams or something. It was getting us crap games and we were paying them for getting the exact same games that we could have gotten.

I'd bet a lot of money that there was something fishy with that.

Another contradictory situation that people have used to fire Morgan.

Look at the posts about Gilstrap getting another year. Look back at the Lucca thing his first year.

EVERYBODY on here was all about how the NCAA screws Iowa State over and over and over. Using that logic to hear people talking about how much trouble we would have been in, except we fired the coach, and that saved us. I have a hard time believing that.

The APR thing was LE, and the Jiri car thing was from a person in Marshalltown. So what penalties did we get from Morgan? I actually want to know.

The coaches themselves got letters from the NCAA exonerating them.

Look, I wasn't unhappy when Morgan was fired. The problem is that when I hear people talking about what a bad precedent firing Mac would be, and how it would make us look bad I wonder just the opposite.

We fire an African American who had been successful, but hang on to a white man from Iowa who has not even come close to that level of success. To me, that sends every bit as bad a message to whomever may come here after Mac is gone.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Precisely. You just gotta love a fan who starts proclaiming that other fans aren't "die hard" fans because they don't act as extreme as the accuser.

Like I said, I completely agree with what Cowherd said earlier today - these self-proclaimed "die hard" fans can actually be an extreme detriment to a team. If an entire fan base continues to show up and show full support through the thick and thin, what incentive is there for changes to be made? I mean, regardless of whether you are a McDermott supporter or not, this team cannot continue going down this road if it wants to see success anytime in the near future. I think everyone agrees with that. But how is the coach/AD going to get the message that changes need to be made if the fan base is supposed to show 100% support at all times and just completely ignore the gigantic elephant in the room that there are major problems with this team?

And I absolutely resent my fanhood being called into question just because I can no longer be on board with this team (not to be confused with being in the "fire McDermott" bandwagon). As I said earlier, I am Cyclone through and through, and the six years I spent there as well as the thousands of dollars I've spent on merchandise for my family would confirm that. And for a school such as ISU, you don't do that unless you are a Cyclone through and through. This isn't exactly USC we're talking about here- even if the colors are similar.

That is not the argument at hand. The argument at hand is that people don't care. I say they still do. They may care in a negative way, but they still care. A fair weather fan still cares. I stated I am not a die hard fan. I have not even tried to make a case for Mac here. Whether you want him gone or you want him back doesn't matter, the point is you still want something within the program. I don't care what "kind" of fan you are. If you once had season tickets it will be very hard for them to step away completely. I am a big fan, not die hard, but a big fan. I agree that we cannot keep traveling down this same road. I would hope most fans can see that. if they recognize it there is a concern. As long as there is a concern and people are talking about it there is an interest that can be cured by winning or a change. If there was a coaching change in the offseason I feel a lot of season ticket holders would renew. If there is not I feel that there would be some that would not and that is their decision. I also feel that if they do not renew and by mid-season the team is very competitive and looks good a lot of those people will come back or will be more engaged.

 

[GoSTATE71]

I forgot we played them till my friend sent me a text asking if i was watching the game and how we were melting in the second half as always, then i turned it on watched two minutes, turned it off because i didnt want to be mad all day, Ive given up and i dont care, this team sucks and all of you know it

 

[westcyedclone]

In the words of the GEICO radio commercial, "Why do you always have to take things to far?"

Has this season sucked? Yes. Is it likely time for Iowa State to move on, for both parties' sake? Probably. Is GMAC pathetic? Hardly. At least he's had two D-I coaching jobs - what have you done with your life?

Sorry Nancy