New Coach Prospects

[GeronimusClone]

we are not going to bring in a big name coach, it just isn't that great of a job anymore, heck we were one year removed from back to back big 12 championships and we had to give the job to Wayne, we went the route of a smaller school head coach (McD) not good, they cant recruit at this level so I say no to Sutton...I say follow the K-State model and bring the best recruiter we can get and pay him a ton of money and get an assistant from somewhere to "manage" the team

I don't think we "had" to give it to Wayne. That being said, he took us to postseason two out of three years.

 

[ISU4Life]

Re: Mac Defenders

OK, if you want to knock the years under JO, TF, LE, and even WM for "not being that great" then how in the hell do you define the years under GM?

I don't think anyone on this site is delusional that we are a "storied" program...those are UCLA, Duke, NC, UK, KU.

But most of us remember when we were always in the discussion for the NCAA Tournament and made it most years. Most of us remember nice runs in the NCAA Tournament (JO, TF, and LE all made it to at least the Sweet 16). Most of us remember nice runs in the conference tournament (Big 8 and Big 12). Most of us remember having teams that could always pull a big upset at any time. Most of us remember when our home arena was a feared place to play. None of that exists in our program any longer.

What we are seeing now is reminiscent of Ken Trickey and Lynn Nance but bears no resemblance to anything we saw under JO, TF, LE, or even WM.

NCAA Tournament Final Four1944NCAA Tournament Elite Eight1944, 2000NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen1986, 1997, 2000NCAA Tournament second round1986, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2005NCAA Tournament appearances1944, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2005Conference tournament champions1955, 1959, 1996, 2000Conference regular season champions1935, 1941, 1944, 1945, 2000, 2001

Three NCAA sweet 16 and seven
2nd round appearances does not
make us a storied program

 

[marothisu]

You need to eliminate every team from that scenario from conferences that just get the one play-in team in from the conference tourney.

True. That's 31 conferences...Usually for the major conferences, a team that would get an at-large wins the tournament, except SOMETIMES (like georgia a few years ago). There are also some of those conferences that have an at-large bid every once in awhile like the Atlantic 10, Missouri Valley..


If we just look at those 31 conferences though and get rid of the minor conferences, that is 261 teams....6 of those conferences i'd consider major conferences...so usually 25 conferences represent 25 teams in the NCAA tournament...255 teams then

But the statistics for this isn't as cut and dry anymore after we eliminate but the odds of getting into the post season while playing in a major conference drastically increases after this.

 

[ISUChippewa]

Well, h*ll, I don't think McD should be fired yet. We're 10-4, not 4-10, and the only loss we have I wasn't expecting is to a pretty damn good UNI team who is 13-1 and has now won twelve straight games.

But, just for the sake of playing along, I'll answer the OP's original question...how about Cornell's coach, Steve Donahue, I think his name is? They almost took down the #1 team in their own building last night.

 

[jaretac]

Yes, we need to start completely over. I'd love to hit the reset button and take another few years to see a decent team. At least then, we can spend our time *****ing about someone new (no pirate)

Come next year we basically will be starting new anyway. Think about this, if Mac is fired, what will we lose that we aren't already losing? Garrett, Boozer, Brackins, Dendy, Staiger are all Juniors which means that transfer is out of the question for all of them, the only thing they could do is quit college hoops altogether because by transferring they lose their senior season. Brackins is going to go NBA this year without question. I don't think we will be able to keep Gilstrap. I would worry a little about the Sophmores, but if we are going to have a coaching change this would be the time to do it.

At least we'd have hope. Do you really believe that Greg McDermott will ever take ISU to an NCAA tournament? Maybe if he had a roster full of NBA starters, but look at the teams ISU has taken to the NCAAs. Rarely more than a couple guys made it. I think the most we ever had on a single tourney roster was 3 (Fizer, Tinsley, Shirley). Good coaches don't need overwhelming talent to win. See: Paul Rhoads.

This reminds me a lot of the line that was going around when we fired DMac and hired Chizik. If we are going to have a coaching change, we need to be smart about it and not do it because of emotions and frustration with losing.

 

[GeronimusClone]

Come next year we basically will be starting new anyway. Think about this, if Mac is fired, what will we lose that we aren't already losing? Garrett, Boozer, Brackins, Dendy, Staiger are all Juniors which means that transfer is out of the question for all of them, the only thing they could do is quit college hoops altogether because by transferring they lose their senior season. Brackins is going to go NBA this year without question. I don't think we will be able to keep Gilstrap. I would worry a little about the Sophmores, but if we are going to have a coaching change this would be the time to do it.



This reminds me a lot of the line that was going around when we fired DMac and hired Chizik. If we are going to have a coaching change, we need to be smart about it and not do it because of emotions and frustration with losing.[/QUOTE]

Man, there would be no coaching changes if this were the criteria.

 

[CycloneErik]

I don't think we "had" to give it to Wayne. That being said, he took us to postseason two out of three years.

No, we really did. We courted some of the hotter names out there pretty publicly, and they all found other places to go. In the end, we got the consolation prize with Wayne.

 

[DaddyMac]

No, we really did. We courted some of the hotter names out there pretty publicly, and they all found other places to go. In the end, we got the consolation prize with Wayne.

I recall it being talked about at the time that Wayne was selected also to satisfy a number of current players - including Adam Halluska - who transferred anyway.

And yes - Wayne was about 8th choice. That fact was about the first question asked at his hiring announcement presser.

 

[Clone5]

I don't understand how many of you are still completely behind Mcdermott. I don't see any signs that we will get to the NCAA tournament in the next 2 to 3 years. A lot can happen but if we can't get there with Brackins and Gilstrap when will it happen? Are cyclone fans really willing to give a coach more than 6 years to get to the post season?

 

[Dave19642006]

Name the coaches and teams that put a team in the NCAA Basketball tournament after 1 year, after 2 years, after 3, years

 

[tec71]

Re: Mac Defenders

You mean in 2000? For ONE season? Maybe 00-01 as well, when we were so "elite" we lost in the first round of the NCAAs.

This idea that ISU is some storied basketball progam.......??????? :no:

We have had ONE awesome season in about 100 years. And our fans somehow now think it's our destiny.

News flash - we were never elite. We were never really that close to being elite. I remember being in my second or third out of school - being thrilled that the Willowby, Cato, Floyd team was still in the mix of the conference race in February. That was as good as it got at ISU - still relevant in the conference half way through.

BTW - I'm 38 and have a decent amout of ISU experience.

Now I agree, ISU fans have the right to expect more .. and we should. But let's not kid ourselves that we have history to back up those expectations. What we're seeing right now is far closer to the norm, than the exception.

I quote DaddyMac because I think he has some history to verify or deny my analogy. I think unfortunately that Mac is very much like Linda Crum was at ISU. She was the volleyball coach before CJ. When she took over the program was in shambles. lawsuits, allegations of abuse, monstorous losing records, probably 2 D1 players on the roster, and a previous coach who had fabricated her resume both in terms of her playing experience and her degree. Linda came in and a did a good job of steadying the ship, upped the talent coming in the door, but in the end they were measuring success in points scored. They'd stablized but I'm not certain they were improving to the point where they would be in the middel of the Big 12, let alone a top 10 finish in the nation. When she left and cindy came in she took virtually the same kids and had much more success that first year, and then added some more talent and they've been off like a shot the last few years. I'm convinced that we don't get where we are at without Linda doing what she did as well as she did it. A rescue job isn't for everyone. If things are stablized in MBB we aren't really improving is it time to go find our CJ?

 

[marothisu]

Well, h*ll, I don't think McD should be fired yet. We're 10-4, not 4-10, and the only loss we have I wasn't expecting is to a pretty damn good UNI team who is 13-1 and has now won twelve straight games.

But, just for the sake of playing along, I'll answer the OP's original question...how about Cornell's coach, Steve Donahue, I think his name is? They almost took down the #1 team in their own building last night.

10-4 in non conference doesn't mean a lot. I made a post like 1-3 pages ago on this.


During McDermott's days, here's been our competition
Idaho State
Chicago State
Drake (thrice)
Mississippi Valley State (twice)
Tennessee State
St. Louis
Northwestern
UNI (Four times)
California
Iowa (Four times)
Bradley (thrice)
North Dakota (twice)
Houston (twice)
Duke
UW-Milwaukee
UC-Davis
Loyola-Marymount
Hawaii
Oregon State (twice)
Jacksonville State
South Dakota State
Mercer
SIU-Edwardsville
Houston Baptist
Winston-Salem State
Centenary
Minnesota (twice)
Bethune-Cookman
Texas Southern
UC-Riverside
Louisiana Monroe
Eastern Illinois
Norfolk State
Lake Superior State
Savannah State
Ohio State
Southeast Missouri State
North Dakota State
Alabama
Albany
USC-Upstate
Purdue



Guess who his losses are to?
UNI (thrice)
Drake (thrice)
Iowa (twice)
Bradley (twice)
Ohio State
Minnesota
Alabama
Hawaii
South Dakota State
Northwestern
California
Duke


He's 40-17 in non-conference and we've barely played anyone from a major conference. And when we do, we have a losing record by far. Versus teams from the major conferences excluding the big 12 (SEC, ACC, Pac-10, Big 10, Big East), McDermott is 5-8. If we factor Big 12 into this (14-37) we are then 19-45 or a 29.7% winning percentage.


Here's how McDermott started out non-con in each of his seasons:
06-07: 9-5
07-08: 10-5
08-09: 11-3
09-10: 10-4 so far

40-17 non conference and 13 of those games were against major conferences, which we lost 8 of. Big 12 play is what matters. If we were in the MAC or MVC, we'd be an almost powerhouse, but sorry no, we're in the big 12 and to coach in the big 12, you better do better than 14-37 to keep your job.

 

[marothisu]

Name the coaches and teams that put a team in the NCAA Basketball tournament after 1 year, after 2 years, after 3, years

Tim Floyd, Larry Eustachy, Wayne Morgan.


I believe Johnny Orr took us to the NIT in his fourth season. Fifth Season NCAA tournament for the first time.


But when he took over, our program was horrible...and so to keep him around after losing seasons was more acceptable. He also almost won a national championship with Michigan in 1976 so ISU had more faith in him winning in a big conference.

 

[Al_4_State]

Come next year we basically will be starting new anyway. Think about this, if Mac is fired, what will we lose that we aren't already losing? Garrett, Boozer, Brackins, Dendy, Staiger are all Juniors which means that transfer is out of the question for all of them, the only thing they could do is quit college hoops altogether because by transferring they lose their senior season. Brackins is going to go NBA this year without question. I don't think we will be able to keep Gilstrap. I would worry a little about the Sophmores, but if we are going to have a coaching change this would be the time to do it.



This reminds me a lot of the line that was going around when we fired DMac and hired Chizik. If we are going to have a coaching change, we need to be smart about it and not do it because of emotions and frustration with losing.

We absolutely need to be smart about it, but that comes more in the end of the next hire than anything else.

 

[Dave19642006]

Like I stated....we need a Bobby Knight style coach.....we want a coach that will discipline these kids...if they leave....screw them... let them play at intermurals

 

[DaddyMac]

Re: Mac Defenders

I quote DaddyMac because I think he has some history to verify or deny my analogy. I think unfortunately that Mac is very much like Linda Crum was at ISU. She was the volleyball coach before CJ. When she took over the program was in shambles. lawsuits, allegations of abuse, monstorous losing records, probably 2 D1 players on the roster, and a previous coach who had fabricated her resume both in terms of her playing experience and her degree. Linda came in and a did a good job of steadying the ship, upped the talent coming in the door, but in the end they were measuring success in points scored. They'd stablized but I'm not certain they were improving to the point where they would be in the middel of the Big 12, let alone a top 10 finish in the nation. When she left and cindy came in she took virtually the same kids and had much more success that first year, and then added some more talent and they've been off like a shot the last few years. I'm convinced that we don't get where we are at without Linda doing what she did as well as she did it. A rescue job isn't for everyone. If things are stablized in MBB we aren't really improving is it time to go find our CJ?

I think there might be something to that. From the outside looking in, I think GMac might be better qualified coach than Linda was. But the thing the CJ brought in is a "culture" of winning, to go with her exceptional skill. Clearly that culture hasn't materialized under GMac.

But who's Cindy? :wink:

 

[marothisu]

Come next year we basically will be starting new anyway. Think about this, if Mac is fired, what will we lose that we aren't already losing? Garrett, Boozer, Brackins, Dendy, Staiger are all Juniors which means that transfer is out of the question for all of them, the only thing they could do is quit college hoops altogether because by transferring they lose their senior season. Brackins is going to go NBA this year without question. I don't think we will be able to keep Gilstrap. I would worry a little about the Sophmores, but if we are going to have a coaching change this would be the time to do it.



This reminds me a lot of the line that was going around when we fired DMac and hired Chizik. If we are going to have a coaching change, we need to be smart about it and not do it because of emotions and frustration with losing.

Um, no not necessarily. If you get a coach who's coached in a major conference before with success, I guarantee not as many players would transfer out. Listen, this isn't football...we've been to the NCAA tournament a dozen times since the mid 80s and the majority of that was actually since the 90s. Coaches know we can play and be competitive. The chances of us landing a bigger coach is a lot greater than it would be in football. As much as we'd love to think so, coaches still know how hard it is to win in Hilton (or how hard it used to be).

We even got Johnny Orr back when our program SUCKED..somehow...and he's Michigan's All Time winningest coach, won National Coach of the Year before, and came 2nd place in the NCAA tournament in 1976

 

[CycloneErik]

Um, no not necessarily. If you get a coach who's coached in a major conference before with success, I guarantee not as many players would transfer out. Listen, this isn't football...we've been to the NCAA tournament a dozen times since the mid 80s and the majority of that was actually since the 90s. Coaches know we can play. The chances of us landing a bigger coach is a lot greater than it would be in football.

We even got Johnny Orr back when our program SUCKED..somehow...and he's Michigan's All Time winningest coach, won National Coach of the Year before, and came 2nd place in the NCAA tournament in 1976

But there's a reason that hiring Johnny shocked the world. That stuff just doesn't happen.

 

[marothisu]

But there's a reason that hiring Johnny shocked the world. That stuff just doesn't happen.

Yes, that's true BUT times have changed. Again, coaches know ISU can compete. In 1980 when Johnny Orr got hired, we were a nobody. We are far from a dynastic basketball team, but ISU has proven it can get to the NCAA tournament...

Between 1985 and 1997, we went to the NCAA tournament 9 times. SO out of 13 of those years, we went to the tournament 9 times. Only been back 3 times since though.

Again though, coaches are aware ISU can compete and better than football.

 

[ISU4Life]

Plus paying Johnny 3x what he was making at Michigan made it an easy decision for him