Ku's Cliff ...

twocoach

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The Cliff thing still seems fishy to me. I agree on the surface it seems pretty straightforward, Cliff's parents met with an agent and ended up getting a loan ahead of time. They should have known better and there doesn't seem to be much KU implications on the surface. My question is, why would the loan company ever authorize the loan for a player that they knew could get into eligibility concerns and potentially hurt draft status and earning potential if they got caught. These companies do this for a living and they know the rules, probably better than the parents and players. So to me, I wonder if there is extra motivation there and are there any behind the scenes connections to the university or boosters. It doesn't make sense for a bank to make a loan that could hurt the earning potential of the player, unless someone else was going to back that loan.
Ludus Capital isn't a bank, they are a Financial Capital group. From their website: "What We Do Ludus Capital provides the following types of financing: Draft Loans - To pre-NBA and pre-NFL players that are consensus first and early second round picks. Proceeds can be used towards living and training expenses between the time the player declares for the draft and contract signing." What would Ludus Capital care whether or not an ncaa player is breaking an ncaa rule? It doesn't affect them any. The ncaa cannot punish them and they aren't breaking any laws. Their only concern is money and the interest they earn off of these loans. They don't need connections to boosters or schools, they already have connections to sports agents with clients that make tens of millions more than any college athlete they could ever get a loan locked in for. And Ludus Capital is just a subsidiary of Walker Preston Capital, a Finance company that specializes in financing businesses. Little loans like this are a tiny little drop of water in their ocean.
 

ImJustKCClone

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Every athlete at every school gets this information as well as explicit instructions to call if there are any questions. It's wishful thinking to think this might come back on Kansas. Their only mistake was believing they could overcome the lack of intelligence of Cliff and his family. There is no chance that Cliff will return to Kansas once his family took out that loan. He's gone.

Ironic considering this is supposedly an institution of higher education recruiting a student-athlete. Not much pretense left after that comment.
 

twocoach

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Ironic considering this is supposedly an institution of higher education recruiting a student-athlete. Not much pretense left after that comment.
I am fairly certain that every Division 1 program, KU and ISU included, has a few athletes on their football or basketball roster that the general public would deem to be unintelligent. The vast majority are much more intelligent than most would assume but there are always a few everywhere that fit the dumb jock stereotype.
 

surly

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Have you ever used google? It's a really cool tool that can be used to look things up. Ludus Capital is a subsidiary of Walker Preston, a company run by a guy that went to Michigan and a guy from India: http://www.walkerprestoncapital.com/management/

Thus? That suggests a Michigan fan didn't want Alexander to go to MSU, so he directed him to Mt. Oread? Your conclusions are senseless.
 

ljm4cy

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Ludus Capital isn't a bank, they are a Financial Capital group. From their website: "What We Do Ludus Capital provides the following types of financing: Draft Loans - To pre-NBA and pre-NFL players that are consensus first and early second round picks. Proceeds can be used towards living and training expenses between the time the player declares for the draft and contract signing." What would Ludus Capital care whether or not an ncaa player is breaking an ncaa rule? It doesn't affect them any. The ncaa cannot punish them and they aren't breaking any laws. Their only concern is money and the interest they earn off of these loans. They don't need connections to boosters or schools, they already have connections to sports agents with clients that make tens of millions more than any college athlete they could ever get a loan locked in for. And Ludus Capital is just a subsidiary of Walker Preston Capital, a Finance company that specializes in financing businesses. Little loans like this are a tiny little drop of water in their ocean.

The problems with this "Draft Loan" are:
1. Cliff did not declare for the draft prior to the loan.
2. The loan was not to the "pre-NBA and pre-NFL player."
3. The loan was not for the player's living and training expenses.

Other than those three issues, everything looks legit.:jimlad:
 

EnhancedFujita

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Ludus Capital isn't a bank, they are a Financial Capital group. From their website: "What We Do Ludus Capital provides the following types of financing: Draft Loans - To pre-NBA and pre-NFL players that are consensus first and early second round picks. Proceeds can be used towards living and training expenses between the time the player declares for the draft and contract signing." What would Ludus Capital care whether or not an ncaa player is breaking an ncaa rule? It doesn't affect them any. The ncaa cannot punish them and they aren't breaking any laws. Their only concern is money and the interest they earn off of these loans. They don't need connections to boosters or schools, they already have connections to sports agents with clients that make tens of millions more than any college athlete they could ever get a loan locked in for. And Ludus Capital is just a subsidiary of Walker Preston Capital, a Finance company that specializes in financing businesses. Little loans like this are a tiny little drop of water in their ocean.

I work with some pretty big finance companies at times, and I've never met one that considered anything a "little loan" that was just a drop in the ocean. Everything had to stand on it's own or it doesn't fly.

You said "Their only concern is money and the interest they earn off of these loans." Their typical business is to provide these loans "between the time the player declares for the draft and contract signing." During that time there is a lot of good data and a strong understanding of where a player will land and what their earning potential will be.

So if they only care about the money and interest, why offer the loan in August, with no information on where Cliff will fall in the draft stock and what his earning potential would be. What if Cliff got hurt during the season? It doesn't make financial sense. It only makes sense if someone else says that they'll cover Cliff's obligations in a worst case scenario.
 

trajanJ

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You assume the colleges provide that information to the parents. That's the potential for KU to be on the hook for sanctions if they didn't do their job in the compliance department. If KU didn't notify the parents of what they can and can't do, it may be in KU's best interest for Cliff to declare and go away quietly.
There's no assumptions. I have a friend that works in the athletic department. The compliance departments at every school in the conference are very thorough. She knew what she could do and couldn't. She didn't care.
 

Clonehomer

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What is there to defend about Kansas in this situation? Have I missed something? The facts, timing and parties involved of the loan seem to be pretty clear. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/public...mother-to-financial-firm-214254286-ncaab.html The type of company that Ludus Capital is seems to be pretty clear. http://www.luduscapital.com/what-we-do/

So how'd they get that loan in August? The obvious conclusion is that they agreed to a contract with an agent that backed that loan. Otherwise, based on the companies own website, how'd he qualify?
 

twocoach

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So how'd they get that loan in August? The obvious conclusion is that they agreed to a contract with an agent that backed that loan. Otherwise, based on the companies own website, how'd he qualify?
I don't think it would be wise to assume that what it says on their little "about us" section on their website is designed to be the hard fast qualification criteria to qualify for a loan. It's probably a little more in depth than that.
 

twocoach

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The problems with this "Draft Loan" are: 1. Cliff did not declare for the draft prior to the loan. 2. The loan was not to the "pre-NBA and pre-NFL player." 3. The loan was not for the player's living and training expenses. Other than those three issues, everything looks legit.:jimlad:
Again, what does any of that have to do with Kansas? Nothing. Whether this company is good at what they do or not is for another conversation. Based purely off of the generally poor quality of their website I would assume this isn't a top quality firm. Any company that loans money has to live with the consequences of their decisions. If they are OK with the risk associated with loaning this money to Cliff's mom, that's their problem. It sounds like several of us are or have been in the financial and banking industry and have worked for reputable banks that would have never even considered such a high risk loan. It certainly would not have been approved where I work. I have never dealt with any type of Capital group that does risky loans like this so I have no concept of what their Risk Mitigation policies are.
 

twocoach

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I work with some pretty big finance companies at times, and I've never met one that considered anything a "little loan" that was just a drop in the ocean. Everything had to stand on it's own or it doesn't fly. /QUOTE] I work at a large bank and there are tons of "little loans" and there is also an assumed risk of default with a certain percentage of loans. We have a built in amount in our budget for loans we expect will default.
 

GTO

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^^^^Chris Williams counting the money from all the site traffic Tuco is generating. The cash cow is back!
:jimlad:
 

NorthCyd

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I work at a large bank and there are tons of "little loans" and there is also an assumed risk of default with a certain percentage of loans. We have a built in amount in our budget for loans we expect will default.

Who knew McDonalds considers itself a "large bank" and gives out loans.
 

Gunnerclone

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I work with some pretty big finance companies at times, and I've never met one that considered anything a "little loan" that was just a drop in the ocean. Everything had to stand on it's own or it doesn't fly. /QUOTE] I work at a large bank and there are tons of "little loans" and there is also an assumed risk of default with a certain percentage of loans. We have a built in amount in our budget for loans we expect will default.

Of course you do.
 

IASTATE4LIFE

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Again, what does any of that have to do with Kansas? Nothing. Whether this company is good at what they do or not is for another conversation. Based purely off of the generally poor quality of their website I would assume this isn't a top quality firm. Any company that loans money has to live with the consequences of their decisions. If they are OK with the risk associated with loaning this money to Cliff's mom, that's their problem. It sounds like several of us are or have been in the financial and banking industry and have worked for reputable banks that would have never even considered such a high risk loan. It certainly would not have been approved where I work. I have never dealt with any type of Capital group that does risky loans like this so I have no concept of what their Risk Mitigation policies are.


you need to take off your blinders. Kansas absolutely had something to do with this. What I find odd is that they might get caught for this. It will be interesting how this shakes out since every P5 school buys players in this fashion. It either gets scraped under the rug and they keep the basketball program out of this like the fraudulent system is supposed to work.....or maybe they start to clean up college basketball? I am guessing the first scenario so college basketball can keep remaining as the dirty NBA development league as it is now.
 

twocoach

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you need to take off your blinders. Kansas absolutely had something to do with this. What I find odd is that they might get caught for this. It will be interesting how this shakes out since every P5 school buys players in this fashion. It either gets scraped under the rug and they keep the basketball program out of this like the fraudulent system is supposed to work.....or maybe they start to clean up college basketball? I am guessing the first scenario so college basketball can keep remaining as the dirty NBA development league as it is now.
Please explain to me the role that Kansas absolutely played in this since you seem to have more information that I do on the topic. And please provide links to your information so we can all get up to speed.