***Official Big 12 Expansion Thread '16***
- Thread starter cyclones500
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UConn is not in the ACC because Boston College blocked it. Did not want a competing school in their region. I think most ACC schools would trade UConn for BC, just for the hoops.
You can't say hoops has nothing to do with realignment- why is KU considered a candidate for the Big10? It ain't their FB program. FB is the priority and no reason UConn couldn't be a Pitt, Rutgers, MD type program in the Big12 or ACC.
Personally, I think UConn would prefer an ACC invite- but it's tough to wait on ND's decision on whether to join the ACC for football.
ESPN: Big 12 expansion from basketball perspective
Has no real bearing on actual expansion, but interesting how viewpoint shifts if focus is on bball, not football. (I still wouldn't take Boise or SMU).
Has no real bearing on actual expansion, but interesting how viewpoint shifts if focus is on bball, not football. (I still wouldn't take Boise or SMU).
Here is the on thing I have never figured out about expansion. As the leagues grow, the teams are only more likely to not be as elite as they once were. Lets say we get to the 4x16 model that has been talked about. That means we have gone from 6 conferences to 4 in a short period of time, now currently 5. That means there is 1 or 2 less conference champions, that means there are two teams less likely to be undefeated at year end. That means teams that are typically 10 win teams are no longer 10 win teams. As you ratchet up the competition some of the historical powers are going to dwindle. Why are they signing up for that? Nebraska is an example but not really because they were down before they left. WVU coming out of the Big East is a good example, they haven't been able to compete at the same level they did when they were there. Missouri to an extent is another example. If the B12 blows up one or two more teams are no longer elite. It could be one in the B12 or it could be in whatever conference they go to.
I guess what I was getting at if I am OU and UT what I want is wins. I don't really care who I get them against. So why not build the basketball brand higher with UConn and Cincy. And then pad OU, UT, TCU's win totals so that they can make the playoffs every year and all the sudden your conference doesn't look so inferior. This in my mind is what the B1G did when they added Maryland and Rutgers, they could care less about their academics, yes it opened new TV locals, but is also provided more easy wins for UM, OSU, PSU (if they get back to relevance). If you really want to pad the big boy football teams, you bring in UConn, Cincy, Memphis, and Temple. Those are 3 historically good basketball programs and one elite basketball program, you give them half a share as everyone else until the next TV deal. The other 10 members of the league get fat checks for 8 more years. Those 4 teams are happy cause they are still making at least 4 times as much as they were before. If the the B12 blows up at least everyone got a pay day. You pad the win totals of your biggets football teams. the B12 is in the playoff every year. We also hurt the TV value of the B1G a little.
I may also be crazy and am ready for realignment to be done. Just want this over with.
Actually, you can say hoops has nothing to do with realignment. KU is not a candidate for the B1G beyond message board speculation about Big 12 doomsday scenarios and football (or more directly, money) is the only driver for conference expansion. It's come out that the primary motivation in absolutely every move was money. Football is where the TV dollars are, not basketball. Even a program like KU does not bring in the dollars with basketball that even a middle of the road FBS football program does.
UConn could not be a Rutgers or MD type program for the Big 12. Rutgers and Maryland were only B1G candidates because of the unique model of the Big 10 Network. By forcing everyone living in New Jersey and Maryland to pay for the Big 10 Network as part of their basic cable package, the Big 10 made a killing. Otherwise, those schools have brought nothing to the B1G aside from Maryland basketball which isn't much in terms of TV dollars for anyone other than the B1G. The Big 12 doesn't have the luxury of adding schools which do not have successful or popular football teams. If the Big 12 wants to make money (real money, not gaming the network agreement by adding members and withholding the new teams' full share of payments for a few years), expansion candidates have to be analyzed based on their actual value gained from their actual TV viewership.
When it comes down to it, conference expansion is simple. Schools and conferences are looking for deals where they can secure more money for themselves. Having a quality group of MBB teams, as great as it is for fans of the sport, doesn't make much money relative to college football. The only schools and conferences that care about basketball related realignment are the ones that can't make any money in football like the Atlantic 10 or Big East.
Which is why trying to re-establish the Big 12 as a powerful football entity is paramount. Just padding OU's schedule with football nobodies does not help our conference. Whoever the Big 12 champ is, they will have survived the gauntlet. That's why Alabama is able to secure national championships without going undefeated.
You are dead on IMO, but everyone is focused on 1) money and 2) the 4-team CFP.
WRT 1) I really don't think the Big12 is that far behind the SEC and B1G that it should matter, esp for Texas of all people. Maybe that changes with the B1G getting $50M each in a few years though. But it also assumes that with a CCG and future negotiations you can't catch up.
WRT 2) I think this is short sighted, because the odds of going to an 8-team playoff in the next 5 years are high. And then 5 champs plus 3 at large makes total sense, and you won't have 1 conference shut out every year. Since this should generate a ton of TV $$, I expect this to happen. And then the whole issue of only 4x16 superconferences goes away.
UT and OU should be playing a slightly longer game here and getting ready for the 8 team CFP.
Also, I 1000% agree with your last statement. Just pick 2 or 4 teams already.
There's been quite a few sources that say the Big 10 has vetted KU and OU so there does seem to be some interest in KU by the Big 10. At one time I didn't think the 4 x 16 conference thing would ever happen, but if it does those 4 conferences will take control of the NCAA Tournament and form their own governing body. When that happens basketball will be worth over 1 Billion a year just on the TV rights for the Championship tournament. Football plays a big role but CU, Mizzou, Rutgers, Maryland, Utah, Louisville, Syracuse and Pittsburgh all have recently joined conferences without being a football giant. There's a lot more that goes into it. It will probably come down to what size these conferences want to get to. The Big 12 really messed up when they let 4 AAU schools go.
Twitter makes me dislike BYU more by the day.
Tossing around insults directed at Big 12 teams. Throw in a few nut punches and cheap shots on the field.
My hope is the Big 12 tells BYU to pound sand
Tossing around insults directed at Big 12 teams. Throw in a few nut punches and cheap shots on the field.
My hope is the Big 12 tells BYU to pound sand
Would that be an honor code violation?
I don't do Twitter, out of curiosity are they currently tossing these insults?
Seems heavy on "Honor Code" and "Tolerance" talk. They seem like a passionate fan base, but with a heavy Baylor vibe. 1st Amendment and junk like that (which make no sense)
The key here is for me to get off of Twitter
Relative to the G5 candidates being tossed about, Huggy Bear is right on target. Now, if there were actually something going on with a couple of disgruntled P5 teams...
Agree, must listen to podcast. Huggins is on at 38:30. I love his quote, something like- I don't know what the hell a travel partner is- what do they get on the same plane as your team.
I think he has great points. The Big 12 has the best conference structure of any league with 10 teams. We play everyone in football and everyone 2x in hoops.
While I think FB is driving factor (around 50%) of this decision, I think the Presidents will consider other aspects of each school:
- Schools performance of the other main money sport MBB
- Schools performance in other main Olympic sports - WBB, VB, Baseball/Softball
- Academic standing of university
- School runs clean programs from NCAA perspective/ no scandals / culture (BYU)
I understand MBB isn't the driver FB is, but I don't like the idea of the Cyclones MBB team visiting a school like Houston and playing in front of 3,000 - 3,500 fans. Over the last 5 years and probably longer, Drake MBB has had higher attendance than Houston- every year!
