NBA: Jordan vs Lebron

[Gonzo]

The player with the highest playoff and finals scoring average by a large margin happened to play in one of the lowest scoring eras.

The "era" thing actually makes it less close, not closer when that central fact is clear.

Good points. I just don't agree when people say "yeah well look how much bigger/faster/stronger the guys are today" because it makes no sense. There hasn't been a winning time in the Olympic 100 meters over 10.0 since 1980. That doesn't make Jesse Owens any less of a legend for his world-record 10.3 in 1936. I doubt Babe Ruth ever had to stare down a 102-mph fastball. Can you imagine Rocky Marciano at 5'8/190 getting into the ring with Tyson Fury at 6'9/270? MJ's Bulls happened a quarter century ago.

 

[HFCS]

Good points. I just don't agree when people say "yeah well look how much bigger/faster/stronger the guys are today" because it makes no sense. There hasn't been a winning time in the Olympic 100 meters over 10.0 since 1980. That doesn't make Jesse Owens any less of a legend for his world-record 10.3 in 1936. I doubt Babe Ruth ever had to stare down a 102-mph fastball. Can you imagine Rocky Marciano at 5'8/190 getting into the ring with Tyson Fury at 6'9/270? MJ's Bulls happened a quarter century ago.

It definitely matters, especially as the game changes and some positions become more or less important...people instinctively think it's a way to make players seem less extraordinary. That's the case sometimes, and other times a player's strength flies in the face of his era. When the greatest playoff scorer in history by a wide margin does it in a low scoring era where they didn't call fouls..."era" makes him even more ridiculously amazing.

In the 60s or 70s maybe Karl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis (Anthony Davis is 3rd all time in PER) are considered more in these discussions. I saw a great breakdown of how Jerry West could have been much more dominant in today's shooting based game when they showed how he was basically light years better from distance and mid range than the other players of his era without the benefit of a 3 point line.

Karl Anthony Towns is statistically outproducing (or at least similar) KG for the same franchise but few consider him better or even think of him as a legend of his era because it's not an inside dominated game anymore.

 

[mynameisjonas]

Who would have guarded LeBron James in the 80s and 90s?

Rodman would have been the obvious guy. He would mind f*** Lebron the entire game and we already know how mentally weak Lebron is he wouldn’t have handled it well.

 

[deadeyededric]

Rodman would have been the obvious guy. He would mind f*** Lebron the entire game and we already know how mentally weak Lebron is he wouldn’t have handled it well.

Rodman could try. I have my doubts that Rodman could guard him away from the basket. I can't see him picking Lebron up at half court but thats just me.

 

[mynameisjonas]

Rodman could try. I have my doubts that Rodman could guard him away from the basket. I can't see him picking Lebron up at half court but thats just me.

Here is a quote from Rodman about Lebron:
”lebron is so easy to play. He don’t have any moves. Scottie Pippen could have shut him down before I get to him. His game is too simple, he just big.”

 

[cyfanatic13]

Here is a quote from Rodman about Lebron:
”lebron is so easy to play. He don’t have any moves. Scottie Pippen could have shut him down before I get to him. His game is too simple, he just big.”

Oh did Rodman ever play against LeBron?

I have classmates from high school that think we would've beaten our high school's basketball team this year that got 3rd at state. We went 8-14 my senior year and probably would've lost by 25. People tend to exaggerate how good their "era" was and what do you expect Rodman to say? "Yeah LeBron would score 30 against me". Rodman's statement means nothing

 

[mynameisjonas]

Oh did Rodman ever play against LeBron?

I have classmates from high school that think we would've beaten our high school's basketball team this year that got 3rd at state. We went 8-14 my senior year and probably would've lost by 25. People tend to exaggerate how good their "era" was and what do you expect Rodman to say? "Yeah LeBron would score 30 against me". Rodman's statement means nothing

Your high school story is cute, but Rodman is well regarded as one of the best defenders of all time, so Rodman’s statement does in fact mean something.

 

[Brett44]

Jordan is better than Lebron there is no doubt in my mind

 

[usedcarguy]

Jordan, and it's not even close. Jordan was a MUCH stronger player mentally than LeBron ever was or will be. He was tough physically as well as mentally. And for those who think LeBron would have beaten Jordan in 1 on 1? No way. MJ would have been in his head. There's never been a player come thru the league that was any more competitive than Jordan. When a game was on the line, he had another gear that no one else had. He made the people around him better. Just don't see that with LeBron.

LeBron is a talented player, and one of the top in the history of the league, but he's no Jordan.

 

[usedcarguy]

NOBODY with any credibility would say Larry Bird is a better basketball player than Lebron James.

IDK. Bird in his prime was pretty much unstoppable offensively. He wasn't as physically gifted as LeBron, but he made up for it with nearly flawless fundamentals. He was pretty tough mentally as well, but not like Jordan.

 

[Brett44]

Jordan, and it's not even close. Jordan was a MUCH stronger player mentally than LeBron ever was or will be. He was tough physically as well as mentally. And for those who think LeBron would have beaten Jordan in 1 on 1? No way. MJ would have been in his head. There's never been a player come thru the league that was any more competitive than Jordan. When a game was on the line, he had another gear that no one else had. He made the people around him better. Just don't see that with LeBron.

LeBron is a talented player, and one of the top in the history of the league, but he's no Jordan.

ok calm down with the much stronger mental stuff

 

[usedcarguy]

ok calm down with the much stronger mental stuff

You calm down. I'm not wrong. Lebron is one of the most physically imposing players in the history of the league and he's a whiner. Enuf said.

 

[Brett44]

You calm down. I'm not wrong. Lebron is one of the most physically imposing players in the history of the league and he's a whiner. Enuf said.

no you calm down. Jordan was a monster physically.

I'm not wrong. Jordan was more of a specimen relative to the league than LeBron was.

 

[Brett44]

the things that Jordan could do athletically?

 

[mynameisjonas]

Rodman could try. I have my doubts that Rodman could guard him away from the basket. I can't see him picking Lebron up at half court but thats just me.

Just for fun...Rodman shutting down Shaq.

 

[Brett44]

Just for fun...Rodman shutting down Shaq.

thx for the awesome clip

 

[Brett44]

I do feel like big guys get the raw end of the deal. Guards get away with murder in the paint.

 

[Brett44]

Ocassionally you’ll get a ref who isn’t a manlet and calls it straight

 

[MisterO]

The bulls drafted Pippen. Jordan didn’t recruit a super team like Lebron did.

And even if Jordan would have recruited a super team he wouldn’t have followed them to Miami or Los Angeles, they would have come to him in Chicago. Lebron followed Wade to Miami, sorry but that was such a weak move.

I think that’s what made MJ the best: he made nobodies into superstars. Jordan had the ability to make everyone around him better.
We could argue stats all day- and have a legit argument for 20 or 25 players. MJ was the best because of the way he lifted the entire team. You didn’t have to just stop MJ. MJ had it set up that he would beat you with Scottie one night, Kerr might kill you in the 4th qtr, Pax- and then you had a guy like Rodman cleaning everything else up. MJ was the best player on the best teams ever- that’s what makes him the GOAT.

 

[8bitnes]

They’re not comparable because they played in two completely different eras. They’re both GOATs of their generation.

I heard a great comparison the other day.

Seattle Seahawks wide receiver DK Metcalf ran in an Olympic 100M dash qualifier over the weekend. In 2021, he placed like 3rd to last overall. If he ran at the 1980 Olympics he would have placed 3rd overall

Now make the comparison between Jordan’s competition and LeBron’s. It’s just different. Both great at their own times.

Terrible example. The 1980 Olympics were the boycott Olympics in Moscow.
At the 1980 US Olympic Trials, DK would have been 10th in prelims, then 11th in semis, and missed the finals. He also would have lost to NFL player Willie Gault