Big 12 Conference Realignment

[Nolaeer]

I see a 24 team Super league for hoops.

we add 8 new teams (some hoops only).
1. Uconn
2. Louisville
3. Zaga
4. Pitt
5. NC State
6. VT
7. Nova
8. Georgetown


East
Uconn
Louisville
cinn
Pitt
WVU
Georgetown
NC State
VT
Oklahoma State
UCF
ISU
Houston

West
Zaga
Zona
arz state
BYU
Utah
Baylor
TCU
kstate
texas tech
colo
Kansas

 

[Cyclonsin]

I see a 24 team Super league for hoops.

we add 8 new teams (some hoops only).
1. Uconn
2. Louisville
3. Zaga
4. Pitt
5. NC State
6. VT
7. Nova
8. Georgetown


East
Uconn
Louisville
cinn
Pitt
WVU
Georgetown
NC State
VT
Oklahoma State
UCF
ISU
Houston

West
Zaga
Zona
arz state
BYU
Utah
Baylor
TCU
kstate
texas tech
colo
Kansas

I hate those divisions with every fiber of my being.

 

[Nolaeer]

I hate those divisions with every fiber of my being.

it wont be bad. i think teams like ISu and oklahoma State will have rival teams like kstate, kansas, texas tech. TCU is relatively new, so maybe isu and osu stay west, and tcu joins east

 

[exCyDing]

Ouch $6M per year makes it a harder decision than I thought in retrospect. That said, I still think I would have taken them as they provide more stability and competitive strength for the conference . They could potentially make that up in CFP or NCAA tourney units.

Curious, why do you think 4 Power leagues isn’t sustainable but 3 is?

It depends on how big #1 and #2 get.

Let's say the B10 and SEC raid the ACC for 5-6 schools between them, and there's ~12 schools left.

1. Does ESPN keep their current deal in place to help facilitate the raid? Is that enough to keep pace with the B12?
2. Does the ACC backfill? If so, who do they pick up?
3. If they don't backfill, what's the perception hit being a 12-school power conference when the other three have 16+ members?
4. When their current deal is up (or if ESPN kills it), are they able to replace something on par with the B12? If not, they're quite likely to lose 4+ more schools.

IMO, this could end up looking a lot like the PAC's collapse. The only question if someone finds a way around the GOR, or if schools leave at the end of the deal like OUT and USCLA. There's no one to backfill with, offers for their new deal don't keep pace with the B12, and the schools that have the option to leave ultimately do just that.

Taking a $6M/year haircut is sub-optimal, but it allows the B12 to be well position compared the the ACC. The larger the conference, the more likely it is to be able to survive losing a few members, and a viable ACC could be a threat to poach from the B12.

When the PAC was still hanging on, some proposed taking SDSU, UNLV, SMU or others to prevent the PAC from expanding and hanging on. None of those schools really fixed the PAC's central problems, so it wasn't a good strategy. Taking all of the corner schools, even at a loss, was the same strategy, but positioning for when/if the ACC gets raided.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

It depends on how big #1 and #2 get.

Let's say the B10 and SEC raid the ACC for 5-6 schools between them, and there's ~12 schools left.

1. Does ESPN keep their current deal in place to help facilitate the raid? Is that enough to keep pace with the B12?
2. Does the ACC backfill? If so, who do they pick up?
3. If they don't backfill, what's the perception hit being a 12-school power conference when the other three have 16+ members?
4. When their current deal is up (or if ESPN kills it), are they able to replace something on par with the B12? If not, they're quite likely to lose 4+ more schools.

IMO, this could end up looking a lot like the PAC's collapse. The only question if someone finds a way around the GOR, or if schools leave at the end of the deal like OUT and USCLA. There's no one to backfill with, offers for their new deal don't keep pace with the B12, and the schools that have the option to leave ultimately do just that.

Taking a $6M/year haircut is sub-optimal, but it allows the B12 to be well position compared the the ACC. The larger the conference, the more likely it is to be able to survive losing a few members, and a viable ACC could be a threat to poach from the B12.

When the PAC was still hanging on, some proposed taking SDSU, UNLV, SMU or others to prevent the PAC from expanding and hanging on. None of those schools really fixed the PAC's central problems, so it wasn't a good strategy. Taking all of the corner schools, even at a loss, was the same strategy, but positioning for when/if the ACC gets raided.

Gotcha. It could play out that way for sure. I’ve said this before but, imo, the only way to prevent a Super League is if it’s not financially beneficial to do so.

I think having 3rd and 4th leagues that can maintain competitiveness is a good pathway to prevent a Super League. If having a viable post-raid ACC maintains auto bids for the CFP in 2026 and beyond, then I think it’s in the B12 and ISU’s best interest for the ACC to stay alive.

 

[aeroclone]

Ouch $6M per year makes it a harder decision than I thought in retrospect. That said, I still think I would have taken them as they provide more stability and competitive strength for the conference . They could potentially make that up in CFP or NCAA tourney units.

Curious, why do you think 4 Power leagues isn’t sustainable but 3 is?

It isn't that a 4 league model couldn't work, it is that the B1G and SEC aren't done hunting yet. They are going to steal away the top ACC programs when the opportunity comes.

Then the question becomes what do the ACC leftovers do next. If the B12 is clearly stronger than the ACC leftovers, we pick off who we want and leave the rest for dead. If the ACC looks stronger than the B12 they take their pick from us and leave the rest for dead.

So we will be left with the true power 2, a strong 3rd that should end up being the B12 thanks to our latest moves, and then some leftover programs that will be relegated to the AAC and MWC. Had the ACC got a better piece of the Pac, they could have ended up with the inside track to 3rd place and ISU could again be staring down relegation.

 

[qwerty]

I see a 24 team Super league for hoops.

we add 8 new teams (some hoops only).
1. Uconn
2. Louisville
3. Zaga
4. Pitt
5. NC State
6. VT
7. Nova
8. Georgetown


East
Uconn
Louisville
cinn
Pitt
WVU
Georgetown
NC State
VT
Oklahoma State
UCF
ISU
Houston

West
Zaga
Zona
arz state
BYU
Utah
Baylor
TCU
kstate
texas tech
colo
Kansas

Probably put Nova in East and slide OK State to West

 

[Cyforce]

I see a 24 team Super league for hoops.

we add 8 new teams (some hoops only).
1. Uconn
2. Louisville
3. Zaga
4. Pitt
5. NC State
6. VT
7. Nova
8. Georgetown


East
Uconn
Louisville
cinn
Pitt
WVU
Georgetown
NC State
VT
Oklahoma State
UCF
ISU
Houston

West
Zaga
Zona
arz state
BYU
Utah
Baylor
TCU
kstate
texas tech
colo
Kansas

Why would 5 ACC schools join as basketball only?

 

[exCyDing]

Gotcha. It could play out that way for sure. I’ve said this before but, imo, the only way to prevent a Super League is if it’s not financially beneficial to do so.

I think having 3rd and 4th leagues that can maintain competitiveness is a good pathway to prevent a Super League. If having a viable post-raid ACC maintains auto bids for the CFP in 2026 and beyond, then I think it’s in the B12 and ISU’s best interest for the ACC to stay alive.

If a Super League is financially beneficial, it will happen in the way that is most beneficial to the schools that have an invite and an interest. Having a 3rd or 4th conference doesn't change the equation one way or another no matter how competitive they are on the field.

The obstacle for viability of the #4 conference is the #3 conference. Unless the two are very closely matched financially, the top schools from the #4 conference will have a lot of interest in making the move to the #3 conference. The #3 conference will have a lot of interest in growing the gap between them and the #4 conference, lest their members get a wandering I should fortunes change in the future. Additionally, the #3 conference would likely want to match the SEC and B10 membership numbers.

If the ACC loses their top 4-6 to the B10 and SEC, it seems possible they'd lose their next 4-6 to the B12.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

It isn't that a 4 league model couldn't work, it is that the B1G and SEC aren't done hunting yet. They are going to steal away the top ACC programs when the opportunity comes.

Then the question becomes what do the ACC leftovers do next. If the B12 is clearly stronger than the ACC leftovers, we pick off who we want and leave the rest for dead. If the ACC looks stronger than the B12 they take their pick from us and leave the rest for dead.

So we will be left with the true power 2, a strong 3rd that should end up being the B12 thanks to our latest moves, and then some leftover programs that will be relegated to the AAC and MWC. Had the ACC got a better piece of the Pac, they could have ended up with the inside track to 3rd place and ISU could again be staring down relegation.

Next season the Big easy will be at 18 teams, and the SEC at 16 teams, adding at least 6 to 8 from the ACC puts both conferences at 20/22 teams. That would leave only 6/8 teams in the ACC, with the B12 at 16 next seasons, the league could easily take 4/6 teams getting them to 20/22 just like the Big Easy and the SEC.

May come down to which league ESPN and Fox want to survive, the ACC or the B12.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

It isn't that a 4 league model couldn't work, it is that the B1G and SEC aren't done hunting yet. They are going to steal away the top ACC programs when the opportunity comes.

Then the question becomes what do the ACC leftovers do next. If the B12 is clearly stronger than the ACC leftovers, we pick off who we want and leave the rest for dead. If the ACC looks stronger than the B12 they take their pick from us and leave the rest for dead.

So we will be left with the true power 2, a strong 3rd that should end up being the B12 thanks to our latest moves, and then some leftover programs that will be relegated to the AAC and MWC. Had the ACC got a better piece of the Pac, they could have ended up with the inside track to 3rd place and ISU could again be staring down relegation.

100%. The ACC is going to lose FSU, Clemson, Chapel Hill, likely Miami and UVa (although I think they’re completely overvalued) and potentially Virginia Tech, NC State, and Duke.

If they can hold onto 3 or 4 of the latter 5, that’s still a viable league they wouldn’t be much of a threat to poach the B12 (maybe WVU), because the current contract would still be locked in until 2036. At that point, I think it actually would be beneficial for the ACC to survive and maintain autobids in the CFP.

If they lose 3 or 4 of the latter 5, Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse will want to go to the B12 rather than rebuild I’d think. Then the ACC is done and the B12 will need to try and maintain autobids itself.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

Next season the Big easy will be at 18 teams, and the SEC at 16 teams, adding at least 6 to 8 from the ACC puts both conferences at 20/22 teams. That would leave only 6/8 teams in the ACC, with the B12 at 16 next seasons, the league could easily take 4/6 teams getting them to 20/22 just like the Big Easy and the SEC.

May come down to which league ESPN and Fox want to survive, the ACC or the B12.

Yes that’s a good point. There would have to be enough inventory for both leagues to exist still

 

[KidSilverhair]

Why would 5 ACC schools join as basketball only?

He did say some hoops only, which I’m guessing he means Gonzaga, Villanova, and Georgetown.

Still, this kind of talk is nothing more than Xbox NCAA 14 build-your-own-conference delusion at this point.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Yes that’s a good point. There would have to be enough inventory for both leagues to exist still

The ACC did pick up Stanford and Cal, so if they only lost 6 teams, that would put them at 10 plus ND, then maybe add Washington St. and Oregon St.

 

[Nolaeer]

He did say some hoops only, which I’m guessing he means Gonzaga, Villanova, and Georgetown.

Still, this kind of talk is nothing more than Xbox NCAA 14 build-your-own-conference delusion at this point.

likely, not delusion.

1. you are aware the the big 12 (pac schools have no vote) presidents authorized yormark to engage in serious negotiations to add zaga for 2024 season?

2. There is some smoke that the ACC will become a p5 ivy league (with Notre Dame a partial member. That means Louiselle and vt to big 12 for starters.

yormark wants a super basketball league, and he really wants the northeast market. that means uconn, nova, gerorgetown, and maybe even st john.

would cuse and uconn take partial shares to avoid relegation? For uconn, it'd be a promotion.

for a wvu take, and some humor: not a top 5 wvu podcaster, but i like him.

 

[HouClone]

Weird dilemma. It would be helpful to the Big 12 for the ACC to survive so the Big 12 doesn't get edged out from the Big 10 / SEC. But with the ACC surviving, they are going to try to pick off the Big 12 as they have 4 top brands to help close the financial gap to the Big 10 / SEC. Having more teams outside the EST will help them.

Probably best overall for the Big 12 that only 2 ACC brands leave for the Big 10 / SEC. 2nd best is all 4 brands leave. Worst would be if Notre Dame joins the ACC.

The Big 12 is already at its ceiling for football market importance, besides the minor additions of taking ACC leftovers.I have been against Gonzaga and UConn joining, but if the Big 12 strengthens itself as the premier basketball conference with more basketball brands, it is going to be harder for the Big 10 / SEC / tv partners to edge out the Big 12.

I know basketball is Yormark's background, but perhaps it is the above on why Yormark keeps pushing Gonzaga now and maybe revisits UConn while they are available. The ACC has moved out of its lethargic state with Stanford / Cal / SMU, and they could decide to add UConn.

 

[CascadeClone]

Next season the Big easy will be at 18 teams, and the SEC at 16 teams, adding at least 6 to 8 from the ACC puts both conferences at 20/22 teams. That would leave only 6/8 teams in the ACC, with the B12 at 16 next seasons, the league could easily take 4/6 teams getting them to 20/22 just like the Big Easy and the SEC.

May come down to which league ESPN and Fox want to survive, the ACC or the B12.

TV wants the B1G and SEC to survive. The rest is filler.

Best guess is P2 will take 6 ACC teams to go to 20 each. That will kill the ACC, because they cant backfill enough - not any good options left, certainly not in volume. Whats left would be closer to 10M than 20M annual. B12 will then take next best 4. Prob Pitt, VT, LV, and Duke.

Too many pressures on the ACC:
I just dont see the B1G staying at 18. So they want 2 (or maybe 6).
FSU and Clemson want more $$ so they want out or a new deal.
SEC is prob ok at 16, but if B1G goes to 20 and Clem, FSU, Miami are available and want out, they will go to 20.
ACC wont get the money Clemson and FSU want without unequal sharing, and even that prob isnt enough.

The only way i see ACC staying a power conf, is if the B1G takes just the right teams and the ACC manages to negotiate a new deal that somehow pays FSU and Clemson 60M plus. Just doesnt seem likely.

Theres about 80 teams worth of "power" football. 20 are must-have blue blood brands, about 30 big but middle class teams, and 20 hangers-on. P2 has almost all the blue bloods, which enables them to support their legacy hangers on. The B12 strategy has been volume- to load up as many of the middle class as possible to maintain relevance. The ACC has some of all 3 strata, but if they lose their blue bloods, they cant survive having half the league being hangers on.

 

[Triggermv]

Inside Oregon and Washington's jump to the Big Ten — 'It was both of us or none of us'

The Ducks and Huskies will meet for the last time as Pac-12 members on Saturday. How they ultimately ditched the Pac-12 for the Big Ten is a winding story of flip-flopping and finger-pointing.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[StLouisClone]

Do we have clarity yet on how much the 16 Big 12 teams will receive from the new TV contract? Below is the last article I've seen, but it wasn't a clear picture.

 

[MugNight]

Do we have clarity yet on how much the 16 Big 12 teams will receive from the new TV contract? Below is the last article I've seen, but it wasn't a clear picture.

Not sure, but I’m gonna hold this over Utah fans’ heads for the rest of time. They weren’t additive; they were a charity case*

*they’re a good brand, but their fans deserve to be knocked down several pegs