Yes, but there was also a lot of improvement this year as a team. There were no guys this year that we just tossed out trying to not get pinned. And we had over half our team ranked in the top 20 by the end of the season. Huge difference from last year and the year before.
JUDOKA BLOG: Big 12 Championships Preview
- Thread starter ChrisMWilliams
- Start date
Yes, but there was also a lot of improvement this year as a team. There were no guys this year that we just tossed out trying to not get pinned. And we had over half our team ranked in the top 20 by the end of the season. Huge difference from last year and the year before.
When do we find out who gets the wild cards? How much does Finch being a previous qualifier sway a wild card in his direction?
To put it simply, you are living in the past. Wrestling isn't Iowa/Iowa State/Oklahoma/Oklahoma State anymore. ISU is still a good job, but it not a destination job other than for alumni. Same thing for recruits - we're a good name, but other than legacy guys we can't pull in recruits for little or no scholarship money like Iowa or Penn State can. A recruit will come to ISU to win a national championship. But they won't come here for 0.1 scholarship to do so.
Didn't the previous coach really prove this false. I mean you have a guy who made a huge name here and he leaves. The reason doesn't matter. Wouldn't a top level coach say, "Well, if HE left, something is amiss." That doesn't mean that's true but I think it would cause doubt and if you fire a guy after a few short years, with the program in average condition, you may risk possibly having to rebuild again. I don't know how the wrestlers feel about Jackson either so maybe the fallout wouldn't be as bad.
If you have followed since the 90's- this season is closer to the norm than against it. We took a distant 2nd in 96- let our best chance for our first title since 87 slip away in 2000 and had those 3 nice years of Cael. Honestly, we have not been much for team title consideration at any other point besides those years. As for us being a destination job- those days are long gone. I LOVE our program- I have good friends who competed in it and are a part of it now but the facts are telling. We have an updated room that is better and is now considered "nice". It still falls far, far short of the mark when compared to the schools who are now "elite". Our budget is worse than our facilities and it is still decent but not on course w/ those who we want to be our peers. KJ does need to perform at a higher level but he also understands we need to out perform our resources. He coaches that way and understands how it is here. To win an NCAA title at ISU, we have to be nearly flawless in our approach. Folks, if you cut him loose, Mark Perry ain't coming, Terry Brands ain't coming, Joe Heskett wants to be an administrator one day- not a coach and Donny P ain't coming. Who are you going to hire? IF- we continue to develop what we have and strike gold on a few elite recruits (which burned us badly this year) I see the things needed to climb to the top again one day.
Last edited:
I believe Cody Sanderson would come. He has strong ties to Iowa State and has been a head coach. He would do a good job in my opinion.
I would hope that Travis P, Reader, and Nickerson stay as well. That is why you are seeing improvement in the team.
I would hope that Travis P, Reader, and Nickerson stay as well. That is why you are seeing improvement in the team.
Gotta love how we show huge improvements from last year, and even huge improvements from the beginining of the season, and the talk is still only about the head coach.
Not Mayfield having a hell of a meet at his last chance to be a national qualifier and stealing a spot.
Not Moreno knocking off the #3 ranked guy in the country.
Not Goettl getting a nice win to steal an NCAA bid.
Not Gadson continuing to roll despite what is going on with his father's health.
Not the team doing well as a whole and possibly knocking off Oklahoma for the #2 spot in the conference, after taking the #2 spot in the regular season.
Not what is actually happening on the mat.
You know how last year Sorenson was on fire and on track to easily AA and got hurt? And how Spangler had to sit out of the championships due to concussions, but was seeded to be an AA? And how all anyone wanted to talk about was how we had no AAs?
Well this year our AA favorite has a father facing down terminal cancer that has been taking a turn for the worse. And that might mean Kyven doesn't AA. Is all anyone going to talk about then is the lack of AAs?
Seriously people, the program is leaps and bounds above what it was two years ago. We're getting better every meet. Our backups are getting better. Our assistant coaches our getting betting. Our recruiting is getting better. I don't know how anyone thinks we can just replace the head coach and suddenly win the national title.
Not Mayfield having a hell of a meet at his last chance to be a national qualifier and stealing a spot.
Not Moreno knocking off the #3 ranked guy in the country.
Not Goettl getting a nice win to steal an NCAA bid.
Not Gadson continuing to roll despite what is going on with his father's health.
Not the team doing well as a whole and possibly knocking off Oklahoma for the #2 spot in the conference, after taking the #2 spot in the regular season.
Not what is actually happening on the mat.
You know how last year Sorenson was on fire and on track to easily AA and got hurt? And how Spangler had to sit out of the championships due to concussions, but was seeded to be an AA? And how all anyone wanted to talk about was how we had no AAs?
Well this year our AA favorite has a father facing down terminal cancer that has been taking a turn for the worse. And that might mean Kyven doesn't AA. Is all anyone going to talk about then is the lack of AAs?
Seriously people, the program is leaps and bounds above what it was two years ago. We're getting better every meet. Our backups are getting better. Our assistant coaches our getting betting. Our recruiting is getting better. I don't know how anyone thinks we can just replace the head coach and suddenly win the national title.
Last edited:
I find it funny how people want to bi*** and complain about where the program is at at the beginning of the year, KJ makes a fantastic hire in lower weights and to get the most out of what we can and people still want to complain. This just goes to show that KJ cant please some of you. Judoka said it perfect, this team is way above where it was last year. There is not a coach that could come in here and do any more or bring us a title right away. Some of you need to get a reality check.
Judoka I hope you will agree with me on we see eye to eye when it comes to wrestling 99.9% of the time. And I think this isn't brought up enough in wrestling. Let's all be honest if you were a recruit on the fence between say Iowa State and Iowa and being offered a partial scholarship and have no ties to to either school, 9/10 you would choose Iowa. They have the name of being national champions. We have the name of legacy guys but recruits now days haven't grown up with those, besides Cael who they could wrestle for instead of just the same school he went to.
So you guys that still arent happy, who do you suggest we bring in that would be leaps and bounds better than what we have now. Cause you all are wanting immediate results and thats just not going to happen.
The discussion in this thread about coaching has been pretty reasonable IMO, considering the results over the past couple of years. The season isn't over yet, so hopefully everyone has yet to peak, but most here appear to agree that there has been improvement of late.
Who ISU might get as a replacement is an obvious consideration. And it isn't just ISU's standing in relation to college wrestling that is more uncertain now, or not what it has been in the past, but the same kind of uncertainty exists about the Big 12. This will likely resolve itself somewhat in the coming years. ISU also seems to have a pretty good group of assistants currently. The team as a whole is young. So besides who ISU might be able to hire as a replacement in the current market, I would also be a bit concerned about interfering with current development. It is a little different in high school, but I had three head coaches in four years, which I didn't consider a real positive. It isn't clear to me that ISU might be able to hire the next "Jim Harbaugh" of college wrestling right now, such that any associated disruption to the team in the expectation of greater improvement down the road is worth the risk (or even that such a coach would be available). Whatever happens it seems there is a pretty good foundation right now -- no, not number 1 or 2s at every weight, or even any weight right now -- but some depth, and guys with some pretty solid skills up and down the lineup.
So like everyone I expect continued improvement. I was pretty skeptical earlier in the year, but it isn't clear to me that KJ isn't currently still the best person for the job. I like the improvement we have seen during the season and hope all Cyclone wrestlers finish strong and have a good national tournament -- and continue the momentum into next season.
Kudos to Judoka and everyone else for the good wrestling discussion in this thread. Like many others I like reading the results and following along, though I don't always or often participate.
Who ISU might get as a replacement is an obvious consideration. And it isn't just ISU's standing in relation to college wrestling that is more uncertain now, or not what it has been in the past, but the same kind of uncertainty exists about the Big 12. This will likely resolve itself somewhat in the coming years. ISU also seems to have a pretty good group of assistants currently. The team as a whole is young. So besides who ISU might be able to hire as a replacement in the current market, I would also be a bit concerned about interfering with current development. It is a little different in high school, but I had three head coaches in four years, which I didn't consider a real positive. It isn't clear to me that ISU might be able to hire the next "Jim Harbaugh" of college wrestling right now, such that any associated disruption to the team in the expectation of greater improvement down the road is worth the risk (or even that such a coach would be available). Whatever happens it seems there is a pretty good foundation right now -- no, not number 1 or 2s at every weight, or even any weight right now -- but some depth, and guys with some pretty solid skills up and down the lineup.
So like everyone I expect continued improvement. I was pretty skeptical earlier in the year, but it isn't clear to me that KJ isn't currently still the best person for the job. I like the improvement we have seen during the season and hope all Cyclone wrestlers finish strong and have a good national tournament -- and continue the momentum into next season.
Kudos to Judoka and everyone else for the good wrestling discussion in this thread. Like many others I like reading the results and following along, though I don't always or often participate.
It isn't so much we want immediate results but we want to see our guys being competitive in each match, which at the beginning of the season it seemed we weren't. I'll be the first to admit that I wasn't pleased with how the last couple years and the start of this season has been and would have been all for a change if it had continued, but it didn't thankfully.
I think we have to wait out another year before we bring up the discussion of a replacement for KJ as the team has turned it around. I think the biggest thing we as fans know is how important it has been to have the other guys that don't get the credit (TP2, Reader, Nickerson) in the development of these kids throughout the season.
This. Except not just at the beginning of this season, I would say it was that way for the previous 2 years as well. Now we are seeing an upswing, which is fantastic and places the thought of hope in my mind, but is a month of good wrestling enough to outweigh the previous 2.5 years? That's where I am struggling right now...I want KJ to be the answer, and he's showing signs of pushing the right buttons, but I guess it is hard for me to overlook the length of time before now.
I suppose what matters most is how things are going right now, and they are definitely exceeding expectations here in the short-term. That's not even debateable.
So how do you not understand where the program was at when Cale went to Penn?! Yes we had some great guys stay but when they graduated, we had to bring in a lot of new recruits. All his switched to Penn st and some even left the program. This was basucally a brand new team starting over. How do you expect a new program to compete with teams like okie st, iowa and so on?
I have thought for a long time, it was not only about losing KJ, but about replacing the staff. If KJ left, if was pretty certain that at least part of the staff would leave also. I think we have one of the best over staffs around.
Also, I am hearing Mitch Mueller, the Gallicks, Jerome Ward, and others are making their way into the room to help out. Big thanks to them. Especially light weights guys that can give more individual attention to our 5 light weights.
Also, I am hearing Mitch Mueller, the Gallicks, Jerome Ward, and others are making their way into the room to help out. Big thanks to them. Especially light weights guys that can give more individual attention to our 5 light weights.
