New 32 story residential tower, 9 screen theater proposed for downtown Des Moines

[RubyClone]

As one who was vocally against the hyvee project (I wanted mandelbaum's prior theater proposal) we could get the best of both worlds with these 2 together. You know the hyvee practically next door will be a selling point for prospective residents of this tower

Probably.

Although I have to be honest and say I'm nervous about a theater project in any case. I guess there's been a revival. but you see tons of plexes that easily get run down and lack business - become and eye sore. In my youth (many moons ago) I worked in a theater and wonder how they stayed afloat. Wife worked at River Hills/Riveria and said the same thing.

But - it's entertainment. And that's what that area needs IMO if we want to compete for the more national events ala NCAA or Big 12 tourney (I know, we won't). And I suppose easily convertible if it should financially suffer.

 

[RubyClone]

There has been improvement no doubt. My friends and I do go downtown a lot. I still wouldn't say that aspect is where it needs to be in order to support two new Class A, high rise luxury residential buildings.

The night life is getting there but what's keeping young professionals from going to West Glenn? If you can live out west in the suburbs with a house and more space plus have a short commute to a job developing out there, why pay more to live downtown? Waukee, Jordan Creek, and the surrounding area near West Des Moines and on provide competition in a sense for downtown life.

My concern is more so relative to office development. Young professionals going through the applying process with job searches are going to find many businesses are developing away from downtown.

I get that some people want the city life, but I would think you need quicker development and more pulling young professionals and businesses there.

If you got that from what I said - I believe I was wrong and this is "market". The 7th and Grand is "luxury"

As for the rest - can't argue. Just that I think there's a growing population who want to live more in the city itself, than the burbs (my wife is one unfortunately).

You probably have to flip that "what's keeping them from going to West Glen?" around. The answer is that most already live out there. So what's to keep them going downtown - well, they already live out west. Give them housing downtown and they likely entertain down there as well.

As for the offices - I think there's been tremendous growth downtown in the office situation. Nationwide, Wellmark, Principal and others have made HUGE investments in downtown office buildings over the last 10 or so years. The Gateway area have been a near complete renovation. The only place I'm thinking that compares and is out of downtown is probably Wells. I'm sure there are others - but there's still a ton of downtown business.

 

[HandSanitizer]

I think most of the reason for the slow growth in Des moines is how easy it is to get from the suburbs to Downtown and how much easier it is for the huge businesses to build a a couple story 20 acre complex versus a 30 story building in Downtown. We just have too much room to expand outside of des moines.
I agree and wish the would have shot for the #2 spot in the skyline. Cool news though.

 

[JHUNSY]

If you got that from what I said - I believe I was wrong and this is "market". The 7th and Grand is "luxury"

As for the rest - can't argue. Just that I think there's a growing population who want to live more in the city itself, than the burbs (my wife is one unfortunately).

You probably have to flip that "what's keeping them from going to West Glen?" around. The answer is that most already live out there. So what's to keep them going downtown - well, they already live out west. Give them housing downtown and they likely entertain down there as well.

As for the offices - I think there's been tremendous growth downtown in the office situation. Nationwide, Wellmark, Principal and others have made HUGE investments in downtown office buildings over the last 10 or so years. The Gateway area have been a near complete renovation. The only place I'm thinking that compares and is out of downtown is probably Wells. I'm sure there are others - but there's still a ton of downtown business.

I do agree with this. I worded the phrase like that to show the perspective of a young professional just graduating and making that decision. That would be the key target market here.

There may be those employers downtown but a lot of the opportunities I'm seeing, being at that stage, are not downtown but rather in the surrounding suburbs. These developing opportunities need to be opening downtown in order for a revival to work imo.

If I pursue an opening in a surrounding suburb and spend a couple years there working on professional development, by the time an opportunity develops downtown who's to say I'm not already thinking about starting a family at that point? I think people would be more dissuaded towards city living at that point.

 

[thrillcat]

Cool. There's not enough empty housing in downtown Des Moines already...and that movie theater they used to have makes a great elementary school these days.

 

[CysRage]

...this time embellished with a 32-story residential tower, jazz club and parking ramp.

Did someone say Jazz club?

 

[alarson]

Cool. There's not enough empty housing in downtown Des Moines already...and that movie theater they used to have makes a great elementary school these days.

Most housing downtown is selling/renting like hotcakes last I heard.

As for older theaters, the market has changed. A theater with nice amenities (like the theater in kc's power and light district) is a great addition for an entertainment option that isn't just food or drinks or isn't a bigger ticket like the civic center or events center

 

[alarson]

Probably.

Although I have to be honest and say I'm nervous about a theater project in any case. I guess there's been a revival. but you see tons of plexes that easily get run down and lack business - become and eye sore. In my youth (many moons ago) I worked in a theater and wonder how they stayed afloat. Wife worked at River Hills/Riveria and said the same thing.

But - it's entertainment. And that's what that area needs IMO if we want to compete for the more national events ala NCAA or Big 12 tourney (I know, we won't). And I suppose easily convertible if it should financially suffer.

I think the future in theaters is ones like this one proposed. Not just megaplexes but ones with unique and upscale amenities. With more and more having great home viewing options s couple months later you have to have that to sell the experience as opposed to just the movie

 

[HoibergIsMyHero]

There has been improvement no doubt. My friends and I do go downtown a lot. I still wouldn't say that aspect is where it needs to be in order to support two new Class A, high rise luxury residential buildings.

The night life is getting there but what's keeping young professionals from going to West Glen? If you can live out west in the suburbs with a house and more space plus have a short commute to a job developing out there, why pay more to live downtown? Waukee, Jordan Creek, and the surrounding area near West Des Moines and on provide competition in a sense for downtown life.

My concern is more so relative to office development. Young professionals going through the applying process with job searches are going to find many businesses are developing away from downtown.

I get that some people want the city life, but I would think you need quicker development and more pulling young professionals and businesses there.

The fact that there's only one decent bar in West Glen, and all the events going on DT. Also, I really don't think rent is that much cheaper in West Glen. I know a lot of people that would like to live DT but have a hard time finding a place.

 

[Buster28]

By the artist renderings it looks hideous.

As much as I like the idea of this being built in some fashion, I DO hate the initial design of it. The more I've thought about it, the more I hope that it doesn't look so chunky/blocky in a redesign, should one happen.

 

[ISUcyclones11]

I like the progress DSM has been making lately with the downtown hotel to attract events (like NCAA tourney). My hope one day is that we can get a cool Electronic's Convention like CES, but that's a ways out.

 

[JY07]

I like the progress DSM has been making lately with the downtown hotel to attract events (like NCAA tourney). My hope one day is that we can get a cool Electronic's Convention like CES, but that's a ways out.

why one like CES? why not CES itself? it can't be that hard to convince 150k+ people to travel to downtown DSM instead of vegas

 

[capitalcityguy]

I think most of the reason for the slow growth in Des moines is how easy it is to get from the suburbs to Downtown and how much easier it is for the huge businesses to build a a couple story 20 acre complex versus a 30 story building in Downtown. We just have too much room to expand outside of des moines.
I agree and wish the would have shot for the #2 spot in the skyline. Cool news though.

Does the lack of congestion in the metro effect development patterns? Sure, but I don't know anyone that is aware even casually of Des Moines calling development "slow". Right now downtown is experiencing unprecended growth. The amount of project in progress, set to start this year, and in the pipeline are almost mind boggling IMO.

Here is a great rundown of every serious proposed building project going on in downtown at the moment:

Based on your comment, I think you're in for a bit of a surprise:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=211178

 

[Rods79]

Fine. And you very likely are 100% correct about it's impact on this project. Still not crazy about the Hy Vee.

Where's the closest grocery to P&L in KC? Riverwalk in San Antonio?

I'm not hating on Hy Vee. Fully acknowledged there's a need (greater need in the Sherman Hill, North of Grand/South of Grand neighborhood, even East Village... but whatever) Just a bad locale IMO - to throw that in what you want to be heart of your entertainment district. 2 blocks in about any direction (except east I suppose) - and I can't say boo about it.

Cosentino's on 13th/Main since 2008. They still don't have any new residential in the P&L (although something is finally going up right next to the grocery store and not by the bars as originally planned, fancy that).

This HyVee will be a similar concept...smaller/urban/streamlined.

In general, bars and entertainment won't sprout further until there are people, and people won't live DT until there is some sort of grocery store. You don't just pack a whole bunch of entertainment into one place at one time and expect people. The planning for that would be functionally shortsighted and terrible. Also, I don't think people want to live directly adjacent to loud bars...just within reasonable walking distance. Plus, the courthouse needed a buffer. I think the Court Ave district has plenty or room to grow north and south.

 

[capitalcityguy]

^Some great points. Healthy, urban areas historically have been about mixed-uses, not specialized single use. This in turns creates more of a variety of amenities and thus more people that want to live nearby…which drives more demand for things to be built/offered…which brings more people…and around and around it goes

When I moved to Des Moines in late 90’s, Court Avenue was a ghost town most of the time except for business lunch crowd during the week and Friday/Saturday nights. That said, even Friday/Saturday could even be spotty depending on what else was going on in the metro, weather, etc. It is amazing to fast forward to today and how there always seems to be people around now and it will only get better as you throw in more residents nearby (Randolph Hotel is currently being converted to market rate apartments, this new tower, just announced loft complex to take up the entire block north of El Bait Shop/High Life, housing going up nearby along MLK West Parkwy etc. and all the activity a 24-hr full service grocery will add to the area (not to mention the new residents that will be located on the upper floors of the Hy-Vee).

 

[capitalcityguy]

The previously mentioned new loft complex north of El Bait Shop/High Life formally announced (plus a good rundown of all the projects currently proposed or in progress in Court Avenue area

$48 million apartments planned near El Bait Shop

Real estate developers are running out of places to invest around Court Avenue in downtown Des Moines.​

Even less ground will be available if a Minnesota company delivers on a plan to build a $48 million apartment complex in the block north of the two-in-one bar El Bait Shop/High Life Lounge.

Roers Investments announced this week it plans to build a five-story, 246-unit apartment complex filling the block bordered by Second Avenue and Third Street and by Market and Vine streets. The plan also calls for 299 parking stalls hidden within the apartment complex, walk-up units facing three sides, a center courtyard and a rooftop patio.

Known for building apartments in North Dakota and Montana boom towns on the Bakken oil fields, Roers is making its first dive into Des Moines with the project.

The company originally considered a smaller, four-story development but added a floor after city officials advocated for more density

.

Read more http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...es-moines-el-bait-shop-roers-growth/30214561/

 

[jcyclonee]

Fine. And you very likely are 100% correct about it's impact on this project. Still not crazy about the Hy Vee.

Where's the closest grocery to P&L in KC? Riverwalk in San Antonio?

I'm not hating on Hy Vee. Fully acknowledged there's a need (greater need in the Sherman Hill, North of Grand/South of Grand neighborhood, even East Village... but whatever) Just a bad locale IMO - to throw that in what you want to be heart of your entertainment district. 2 blocks in about any direction (except east I suppose) - and I can't say boo about it.

I understand. The Chinese deli isn't authentic enough.

 

[dmclone]

The previously mentioned new loft complex north of El Bait Shop/High Life formally announced (plus a good rundown of all the projects currently proposed or in progress in Court Avenue area

.

Read more http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...es-moines-el-bait-shop-roers-growth/30214561/

Being that close to El Bait Shop may make me sell my house in Johnston and make the move downtown.

 

[HoibergIsMyHero]

Being that close to El Bait Shop may make me sell my house in Johnston and make the move downtown.

It's a slippery slope my friend. 180 taps is a blessing and a curse.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Wow...this might actually happen. Another step forward tonight.

​

Downtown high rise advances with $107 million price tag in Des Moines

Timothy Meinch, [email protected]10:30 p.m. CDT April 25, 2016

Details have been hammered out for Des Moines’ next skyscraper.
For the price of $107 million, Justin Mandelbaum will transform Des Moines’ core entertainment district with a 32-story high-rise. It’s called The Fifth, and it will combine a movie theater, a climbing gym, day care, nightlife venues and a parking ramp below luxury apartments.

The massive project, which was announced in July, put a stake in the ground Monday with a preliminary agreement approved by the Des Moines City Council. The plan includes a stack of agreements and various city contributions expected to reach $25 million over the next 20 years.
City officials praised the substantial downtown investment by a local developer. They rattled off a series of needs that the private project addresses, including public parking, at Court Avenue and Fifth Street — adjacent to the downtown Hy-Vee grocer

Read more: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...es-107-million-price-tag-des-moines/83501816/