MLB: ***Official 2023 St. Louis Cardinals Thread ***

[Aclone]

He would be icing on the cake to a great off season, then take the depth of the outfielders and package them together to get one great young outfielder or stud bullpen pitchers.

I’m not sure we need two 5’10” LHP’s. And Yamamoto is a 5’10” RHP.

The thing about O’Neill and Carlson is that if either one plays full time, they’re likely to have far more trade value at the ‘24 trade deadline.

Of course, one of the two seems far less likely than the other to stay healthy that long.

 

[Aclone]

So, we have five starters at this point: Gray (age 34), Lynn (36), K. Gibson (36), Mikolas (35) and Matz (32). Despite their ages, the three new ones have mostly injury-free careers. Hopefully, they can keep it up.

I would hope for either one more…or for a top (and I mean elite) prospect who might be ready midseason.

 

[mramseyISU]

I would hope for either one more…or for a top (and I mean elite) prospect who might be ready midseason.

Yeah I'd be ok with that. Our best pitching prospects are still at least a year away from the show.

 

[TomTreebow]

One thing to consider - Matz had a market at the deadline but the Cardinals held onto him. If they move him that's $12M off the books in addition to the likely movements of O'Neill ($5.5M) and Carlson ($1.8M). That's nearly $20M off the books.

Now they'll have to take some back in those moves but if they purely wanted to save some money, they could do it. Which would allow them to take on a guy like Glasnow or Bieber, or even try to go big for Yamamoto (I doubt this).

But the move for Gray while giving up a high second round pick has to say that the FO believes they can win this year. They have to make another move for a top of the line guy (or at least a guy with more upside then our other 4 current starters). So here's hoping they finally push their chips in this year and go for it.

 

[Aclone]

But the move for Gray while giving up a high second round pick has to say that the FO believes they can win this year. They have to make another move for a top of the line guy (or at least a guy with more upside then our other 4 current starters). So here's hoping they finally push their chips in this year and go for it.

That 2nd round pick (44th) was a substantial loss. And not merely for the talent, but the flexibility the additional bonus pool would have meant. That would have been substantial.

For those unfamiliar, you draft a player you can pay under slot in a high round, then overpay the slot for a top prospect (usually a HS kid) who fell to a later round. Effectively, a team can wind up with two first rounders.

Especially as high as the Cards will be drafting next year, across the board.

So yes, it looks like they’re shoving in all the chips

 

[StevieISU23]

Starting the off-season-
If you would have told me that we would get the #2 in the Cy-Young.......I would have been PUMPED!!!
Name isn't as sexy, but hey, he was still #2 in Cy-Young.

I'll take it!

 

[Aclone]

 

[mramseyISU]

This guy is a bit of an ass but he's been pretty spot on with the trade and free agency rumors.

 

[Kaner04]

I think we’re gonna go after the Japanese guys pretty hard. Not Yamamoto but the others. I think we’re gonna get rid of Matz, O’Neill, and Carlson, probably an infielder too

 

[Aclone]

Found this on current salary numbers—Gray actually has a graduated contract over the next three years. Only $10 mill in ‘24.

Flexibility for “win now”—and buying time for a couple of prospects to hopefully join the rotation in ‘25, potentially replacing Lynn and/or Gibson.

 

[swiacy]

If they can get value out of O’Neill now, they should move on from him. A 162 game schedule does not work well for body builders. Keeping Carlson another year wouldn’t be a bad move, I’d like to see what he can do with a chance to play regularly. He is very good in the outfield and can play all three positions. There is talk on here of putting them together in a trade but any GM would be subject to criticism for taking two guys who have the same negative history that play the same position.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Cards will move O'Neill, Carlson and either Donavan or Edmans at the winter meetings to find bull pen help. I also would like to see them keep Carlson.

 

[Aclone]

To complement the last salary post:

 

[Aclone]

Cards will move O'Neill, Carlson and either Donavan or Edmans at the winter meetings to find bull pen help. I also would like to see them keep Carlson.

I’ve always thought that Carlson took one for the team when he agreed to bat lead off—far from his natural spot. Trying to adapt messed up his swing, and he hasn’t had enough consistent PT to straighten it out.

 

[TomTreebow]

I do like the focus on pitching again. Would prefer a high-upside young arm to add to the rotation as well, but at the very least they should add two more bullpen arms to get that sorted out and play well off of a staff that can give you innings.

The other thing I'd like to see is just leaving guys in one place defensively. We need to be strong up the middle so give Winn the shot at SS and leave Edman at 2B where he is a gold glover. Stick Nootbaar (assuming Carlson gets traded) in center field until (hopefully) Victor Scott II is ready later in the year. And for the love of all that is holy, just pick LF or RF for Walker and leave him there.

Gorman should be your DH and give Nado and Goldy rest at the corners. He and Donovan just don't move well enough at 2B with shifts banned. Edman is extremely valuable there now and I don't think can be traded until Winn has settled in and shown he can be an everyday guy. I love both, but I do think if we want someone like Dylan Cease or Logan Gilbert/Bryce Miller then they will have to package either Donovan or Gorman. I don't like it...but for a young, controlled pitcher I would do it.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

I do like the focus on pitching again. Would prefer a high-upside young arm to add to the rotation as well, but at the very least they should add two more bullpen arms to get that sorted out and play well off of a staff that can give you innings.

The other thing I'd like to see is just leaving guys in one place defensively. We need to be strong up the middle so give Winn the shot at SS and leave Edman at 2B where he is a gold glover. Stick Nootbaar (assuming Carlson gets traded) in center field until (hopefully) Victor Scott II is ready later in the year. And for the love of all that is holy, just pick LF or RF for Walker and leave him there.

Gorman should be your DH and give Nado and Goldy rest at the corners. He and Donovan just don't move well enough at 2B with shifts banned. Edman is extremely valuable there now and I don't think can be traded until Winn has settled in and shown he can be an everyday guy. I love both, but I do think if we want someone like Dylan Cease or Logan Gilbert/Bryce Miller then they will have to package either Donovan or Gorman. I don't like it...but for a young, controlled pitcher I would do it.

I would like to keep Gorman, guy has a ton of talent, and what he lacks playing 2nd his bat makes up for.
Got a text from my youngest son this morning, he read that the Birds are trying to unload Matz and then use that money to go after the starter from Japan. Love it to happen, but I just cannot see the Birds getting that lucky and committing that much money.

 

[Kaner04]

Cards will move O'Neill, Carlson and either Donavan or Edmans at the winter meetings to find bull pen help. I also would like to see them keep Carlson.

I think it’s setting up to get Glasnow or maybe Cease at winter meetings too

 

[TomTreebow]

I would like to keep Gorman, guy has a ton of talent, and what he lacks playing 2nd his bat makes up for.
Got a text from my youngest son this morning, he read that the Birds are trying to unload Matz and then use that money to go after the starter from Japan. Love it to happen, but I just cannot see the Birds getting that lucky and committing that much money.

Agreed on Gorman - his bat is one we've been wanting to develop forever. I think his future home is 1B after Goldy retires. He can play 2B a bit, but in the playoffs and with a groundball staff (plus his back issues last year) it gets a little troublesome.

He's one of my favorite guys just with how often he barrels up the ball. Just let him DH and play 1B and he'll hit 30+ HRs each year. My only point was that if you want Logan Gilbert, including Gorman is probably the only way you can get him and I think you have to at least consider it for a pitcher that good. But my preference would be hold on to him and try to get a Bryce Miller or Bryan Woo out of SEA instead.

On Yamamoto and Gray's backloaded contract...the more I've read there, the more I believe they are just trying to keep payroll in line with last year. Dewitt does not like to push his chips in. Would love to be wrong but I do believe that trading Matz only opens us up for a pre-arb guy like Cease or one of the SEA pitchers. But not Yamamoto or Glasnow. Would love to be wrong though.

 

[Aclone]

It’s kind of funny to me, seeing people talk about how the bullpen was “exposed” last year because of so many short starts, and now they have to “fix” it.

All the while the people saying this are steadfastly ignoring the fact that the way that Mozeliak already “fixed” most of the real issue is by going out and signing a bunch of durable inning eaters.

Not saying they can’t use an arm or two, but everyone returning from last year should have a noticeably better year if they’re not getting used nearly as much.

 

[Kaner04]

It’s kind of funny to me, seeing people talk about how the bullpen was “exposed” last year because of so many short starts, and now they have to “fix” it.

All the while the people saying this are steadfastly ignoring the fact that the way that Mozeliak already “fixed” most of the real issue is by going out and signing a bunch of durable inning eaters.

Not saying they can’t use an arm or two, but everyone returning from last year should have a noticeably better year if they’re not getting used nearly as much.

That is definitely a big part of it. The entire bullpen was overworked last year. Starters couldn’t throw a quality start to save their lives. Right now I’d say you have 3 guys that are good to really good relievers. Helsley, Gallegos, and Romero. Libby and Thompson are gonna be swing men. Still would like us to get 2 more guys. Been linked to Phil Maton and some international guys. Thought we might go after Joe Kelly but he just resigned with LA