AAU is like the most insidious youth sports organization in the world.
Pat Forde on Kansas' hoops recruiting (FBI-related)
- Thread starter I-stateTheTruth
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That implies logic was used in claiming that Kansas would be guilty of fraud if it knew about it which is silly. It's a lazy attempt to spin it backwards is all and has no merit other than mild amusement.
There are many great opportunities provided to kids by playing AAU hoops that they simply do not have by playing only high school hoops. There are some crappy AAU programs set up solely to line the pockets of adults but there are many more that are working very well.
If AAU programs were all shut down today, the quality of play of kids going into college would reduce by a huge amount wuthin a short period of time. There are a lot of good youth coaches out there running solid AAU teams that ate teavhing the fundamentals and they get a ton more reps than HS only.
And I would rank USA Gymnastics and US Figure Skating far above AAU on the "most insidious" for their chronic covering up of abusive coaches preying on underage kids.
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The real crime in all this is greed. Since (supposedly) amateur athletics - read:NCAA - have become a multi-million dollar business, every Tom, ****, and Harry that has a hand to grab with wants a piece of that pie. And many of these individuals use totally unscrupulous ways to grab it. No one should be surprised at this, but unfortunately for the athletes, the NCAA doesn't seem to think any of this is a problem. And until they do, this will continue unabated, regardless of sanctions or championship vacations.
It's true - my kid is in 8th grade and plays AAU under a terrific coach; he's a long-time HS teacher and coach and is great with the fundamentals. Kids need to play in the Spring and Summer to be competitive and AAU is the primary mechanism that makes that happen. AAU is just a weak administrator and power and/or money-hungry adults along with companies like Nike and Adidas have distorted everything at the ultra-elite level. It seems to me that AAU is more the absence of a strong regulatory body rather than a perverse organization in and of itself.
I can't think of an organization that could take the place of AAU except maybe USA Basketball or something along those lines.
100% agreed. It flat out takes a lot of money to run an AAU team. The expenses involved in taking 15 kids as well ss all of the coaches and support staff sll over America to participate in big tourneys is very high. And shoe companies have taken on that expense hoping to keep growing the sport, and hence their customer base, as well as to try to get players connected to their brand.
Without their involvement, those costs flow down to the players and that is simply an untenable solution for many of them. This would result in lower numbers of kids in the sport and as a fan of college hoops, that's not what I want to see.
It's unfortunate that a minority have found ways to game the system. Hopefully some bright minds at the ncaa continue to work to adress the current environment as well as they can. But they will always be 2 steps behind.
I wouldn't be shocked at all if the defendants get off with relatively little consequences. The theory of the federal prosecutors is weak and has never been tested. Only thing I can see them getting anyone on is tax evasion if taxes weren't paid. But these people don't have criminal records. This could all end with just some agreement to plead guilty for tax evasion and taxes to be paid.
I remember Bob Knight saying back in the 90's that when kids started taking advise from their AAU coach rather than their high school coach there would be trouble. He was obviously correct. Here's what he had to say about the Ku's and Louisville's of the world.
The only coach he mentioned by name was former Louisville head coach Rick Pitino, someone Knight said he didn’t have much respect for before scandals derailed the Cardinal basketball program. The crowd couldn’t help but laugh when their favorite coach mocked Pitino’s claims that he didn’t know what his assistants were doing with a frown and slight head tilt. “I’m all for the FBI.” IDS
The only coach he mentioned by name was former Louisville head coach Rick Pitino, someone Knight said he didn’t have much respect for before scandals derailed the Cardinal basketball program. The crowd couldn’t help but laugh when their favorite coach mocked Pitino’s claims that he didn’t know what his assistants were doing with a frown and slight head tilt. “I’m all for the FBI.” IDS
I think that in the time it took me to read this post that Bob Knight groped another woman.
I agree. However, the one and done thing ties a school into a player. That is what the NBA likes. So a Texas fan will watch and follow Durant. The one and done guys did not have a fan base following them. So if we got a one and done at Iowa State. I would tune in to watch him play in some NBA games. That is my theory. It might be wrong but having a tie in player to a University does help with ratings.
They have given out more than enough information for the NCAA to start digging and probably complete an investigation and hand out sanctions.
People thinking that the NCAA won't do anything need to look at this situation.
The level of case the Feds have built to enable them to take the investigation this far is substantial.
In order for the case to be valid, someone needs to have been defrauded. Until they prove the university knew, the university is the victim. However, that ONLY remains the case if there is material damage to the university. That means sanctions. Paying for tuition and meals for ineligible players only results in damages if they are hit with fines, lost revenues, etc. Vacated wins won't do it.
If it is proven the schools did know, then yes, other schools can claim damages. Tourney appearances, wins, etc have big value. Not easy to quantify but they'll find a way.
In short, damages that make the case stand will need to be substantial and in the form of NCAA sanctions. You think the Feds are going this deep and wide with an investigation without knowing there will be a "victim"/damages?
But the FBI has told the NCAA to stand clear until the law is finished with their work. I believe that's because the FBI thinks there could be ties back to the institution itself. The chief regulator, after all, was and still may be a Ku grad. Talk about the fox in the chicken coop. 
Actually, no one actually has to have been defrauded for them to still have a case. They can still be convicted of conspiracy to commit wire fraud which is what some of the charges are and some of the most likely to stick. Also no damages have to result in criminal fraud charges. So proving that the university has been damaged is not necessary for the wire fraud part of the case.
I disagree that conspiracy or a fraud case with no actual damages (victim) can apply in this case. Conspiracy to committ, attempted, or "victimless" fraud are typically cases in which a plan to committ fraud failed, wasn't carried through, etc. in this case the fraudulent act was successful- an ineligible player was signed on to scholarship. You could be right and they settle for conspiracy charges or try to push the case without showing damages to any victim, but that would make for a very shaky case.
Wow, that would be odd. Maybe it's happened but I don't know of a case in which someone has transferred from a school and then has transferred back.
".....“Look,” said one prominent veteran head coach, “everyone’s been talking about Kansas for years.”
It’s more than just talk now. When you put the four above player issues together, many people in and around college basketball are questioning the integrity of the Kansas program...."
It’s more than just talk now. When you put the four above player issues together, many people in and around college basketball are questioning the integrity of the Kansas program...."
Funny to see Pay U claim that they were totally bamboozled by high school kids. "Golly, we had no idea..."
Yup, the last two "dadgummit" coaches at KU have had their share of off the court issues.
I think that is the part of their case that is the weakest because their basis for fraud against the universities was that the players sign a form that says they didn't receive impermissible benefits. There are no allegations currently that any of the players knew. If the payments were going to some guardian or parent and the player didn't know then there is no fraudulent act.
Brian Bowen was already cleared by the FBI saying there is no evidence he knew anything. And as far as I have seen reported they don't have anything on Ayton. It doesn't appear they can tie the payments directly to the players knowing about it. That is a huge problem for their fraud case. But if they do somehow show that a kid knew, I do think the most apparent damages are the scholarship money that was spent on the kid and the time and money spend recruiting him. So even without a penalty by the NCAA there are damages.
They already had to dismiss one defendant because it turns out he was just lying to the other defendants about players asking for money and instead was just getting the money for himself and they deleted several allegations in the University of Miami portion of the indictment and that part is I believe just down to conspiracy.
I think the charges that are the strongest are the ones against the assistance coaches but they still are going to be difficult.
