Pat Forde on Kansas' hoops recruiting (FBI-related)

[I-stateTheTruth]

Well, it's not as controversial as the Comey-Trump story but Yahoo Sports writer Pat Forde has a long piece today about how KU could claim innocence when they've had questionable circumstances around 4 recent BB recruits. Those poor victims in Lawrence ...Here's the whole artcle:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kansas...nkling-many-college-basketball-204538312.html

Some quotes from the article:

“Claiming to be the victim?” said a former longtime coach. “That is just total bull----.”

The feds provided support for Kansas’ claim within their indictment, which reads in part: “The alleged objects of the conspiracy remain the same, namely, to defraud the victim-universities by (1) causing them to issue athletic scholarships under the false pretense that the student-athletes receiving this athletic based financial aid were eligible to compete in NCAA athletics, and (2) depriving those universities of their right to control their assets while further exposing them to the risk of tangible economic harm in the form of NCAA fines and penalties, among other things.”

But that stance becomes more debatable within the context of other recent events involving Kansas basketball players. The larger issue for the school and its highly successful head coach, Bill Self, is that this is merely the latest potential “victimization” of a program that has had major potential NCAA compliance problems arise with four different players in the past 38 months.

 

[BoxsterCy]

Another take on how and why the blue blood schools will totally get through this unscathed. They have a degree of separation from the bagmen (the shoe companies) and haven't broken any federal laws. The bagmen and the player's families will get thrown under the bus and the blue bloods will be waving from courtside. They are as dirty as pigs in muddy puddle but the FBI can't touch them and the NCAA won't touch them. Doesn't matter how outraged people get.

By making money from her son’s talent, and lying about it, prosecutors allege, the mother conspired with Adidas officials to defraud Kansas, which could have been exposed to fines and other sanctions if the NCAA learned of the payments. This theory of fraud, which casts schools as victims because players or their parents have secretly taken money, is rare but has been deployed at least twice before by federal prosecutors: in a 1980s case involving a sports agent with ties to the mafia, and a 2000s case involving a convicted cocaine dealer making it rich as an AAU coach.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ba0ed2371cc_story.html?utm_term=.d8642cc41a2e

 

[CloneGuy8]

Poor Kansas. Never gets a fair shake. Victims indeed.

 

[AuH2O]

I actually think he Feds will lean hard on the NCAA to enact some legit punishment to the schools.

Feds aren't going to pursue something they can't prosecute. The basis of their case is largely that the universities are being defrauded. This is under the assumption schools will face sanctions, fines, lost revenue.

If the schools are not significantly sanctioned, the Feds' case is seriously weakened.

 

[I-stateTheTruth]

I actually think he Feds will lean hard on the NCAA to enact some legit punishment to the schools.

Feds aren't going to pursue something they can't prosecute. The basis of their case is largely that the universities are being defrauded. This is under the assumption schools will face sanctions, fines, lost revenue.

If the schools are not significantly sanctioned, the Feds' case is seriously weakened.

Interesting take. Technically, at the very least, these universities have played guys whose eligibility is questionable and that could be sanctioned. I'm not confident that the NCAA will sanction these universities though.

 

[Ozclone]

If the feds case against Adidas is about the universities being defrauded because they didn't know about the payments, then doesn't that case go away IF the university knew? And if that is true, then how long will it take for Gatto to produce evidence that the universities knew and were therefore not defrauded thereby getting himself off the hook while destroying the universities' claim of innocence?

 

[scyclonekid]

Seriously nothing will happen the blue bloods can do whatever the **** they want and the corrupt NCAA will do nothing as has been evident already. It’s insanely corrupt and disgusting.

 

[CycloneErik]

Maybe they can try a new theme song.
"Hail to the Victims" sounds wrong enough for KU to work with.

 

[stevefrench]

Couldn’t the ncaa, if they had the balls to do anything to one of their “brand institutions”, still impose penalties under loss of institutional control or something similar?

 

[TykeClone]

If the feds case against Adidas is about the universities being defrauded because they didn't know about the payments, then doesn't that case go away IF the university knew? And if that is true, then how long will it take for Gatto to produce evidence that the universities knew and were therefore not defrauded thereby getting himself off the hook while destroying the universities' claim of innocence?

It's not Louisville or Kansas that are being defrauded. It's the other public universities that are members of the NCAA that are being denied a fair shot at the athletes who were receiving payments due unreported cash payments.

This hits two things that the Feds don't overly appreciate - tax evasion (on the part of the athletes and their families) and essentially stealing money from other public institutions (on the part of the blue blood institutions, their coaches, their athletic departments, their administrations, and their regents). And for either of those sets of people, the "I didn't know" defense doesn't work.

 

[Clonehomer]

In order for Kansas to be a victim, wouldn't they have to have some sort of damage? Seems the NCAA isn't interested in hanging out punishments for playing ineligible players, so how are they playing the victim card?

 

[surly]

Athletes defrauded the university(s) by signing a document that said they were clean. By not being clean and knowing it, they took valuable items from the university(s) like scholarships, lodging, food, and basketball training, all under false pretenses.

If Ku knew, as we all know they did but some here simply won't admit, if they knew, then Ku is committing fraud on other schools who do not get in the pay-to-play sewer with them. Ku gets enormous benefit from said fraudulent behavior in the form of direct performance payments and indirect revenue from amongst other things enrollment. Both examples are at the expense of non-pay-for-play schools.

 

[randomfan44]

I actually think he Feds will lean hard on the NCAA to enact some legit punishment to the schools.

Feds aren't going to pursue something they can't prosecute. The basis of their case is largely that the universities are being defrauded. This is under the assumption schools will face sanctions, fines, lost revenue.

If the schools are not significantly sanctioned, the Feds' case is seriously weakened.

The Feds won't release their evidence they have on the case while their investigation is still ongoing so I think we are years away from the NCAA ever getting a chance to look into any of these allegations. They haven't taken even a small step towards investigating last year's stuff by Arizona State, Okie State, Auburn and USC.

 

[randomfan44]

Athletes defrauded the university(s) by signing a document that said they were clean. By not being clean and knowing it, they took valuable items from the university(s) like scholarships, lodging, food, and basketball training, all under false pretenses.

If Ku knew, as we all know they did but some here simply won't admit, if they knew, then Ku is committing fraud on other schools who do not get in the pay-to-play sewer with them. Ku gets enormous benefit from said fraudulent behavior in the form of direct performance payments and indirect revenue from amongst other things enrollment. Both examples are at the expense of non-pay-for-play schools.

That last paragraph was why you should to just copying and pasting.

 

[randomfan44]

In order for Kansas to be a victim, wouldn't they have to have some sort of damage? Seems the NCAA isn't interested in hanging out punishments for playing ineligible players, so how are they playing the victim card?

In order for someone to be charged with fraud, there has to have been a victim of said fraudulent activity. Rival fans (and reporters) getting their panties in a twist about semantics is hilarious. Some people want "the worst" to be true so bad that they see it in anything.

 

[surly]

That last paragraph was why you should to just copying and pasting.

You have an example in mind or do you deny the logic?

 

[CTTB78]

The Feds.....They haven't taken even a small step towards investigating last year's stuff by Arizona State, Okie State, Auburn and USC.

Link???

 

[isucy86]

the NCAA is by no means free from criticism, but IMO they are caught in the middle of a flawed and corrupt basketball development system in the US.

First the AAU system for elite HS players naturally leads to corruption. Shoe/athletic companies fund tournaments, teams, coaches, etc. Media talking heads are highly critical of the NCAA model for student athletes. When is they last time you heard someone like **** Vitale, Jay Bilas, Dodd, etc. speak negatively of the summer travel circuit? There are a lot of people/entities making money off elite HS kids, but very little criticism or more importantly call for reform.

Second, the NBA age restriction isn't an act of altruism. Its all about money. In the old system for every Kobe Bryant or Lebron James- there were 10 busts. Somehow the NBA needs to be forced to allow HS kids to be eligible for the draft and there needs to be a viable multi-level (A, AA) minor league where players get a signing bonus/salary.

IMO college basketball wouldn't be hurt if every single HS top 50 player jumped directly from HS to the NBA. Guys like Monte Morris and Georges Niang are what make college basketball great and not kids like Billy Preston, Marvin Bagley or Josh Johnson.

The NCAA can bring some integrity to its game by requiring athletes to be enrolled 12 course credits each semester and require a minimum cumulative GPA, minimum prior semester GPA and progress toward degree requirements. Today very, very few college athletes are ever declared academically ineligible.

 

[BCClone]

Got a cousin in the FBI, he checked with his buddies. He heard that theFBI has hard evidence and have given it to the NCAA with the understanding that they will hammer KU. NCAA will put a 5 year ban on KU for bowl games.

 

[bosco]

Kansas: