Residential Solar Panels

[BCClone]

An update after about 5 months of solar. TL;DR version-- so far, so okay but big regret on the batteries.

System is 19 Panasonic panels, 360W each, with IQ7 microinverters, and (3) Encharge 3.3kWh batteries.

The good news is that everything is working and the batteries even kicked on once for about 5 minutes during an outage.

There are a couple minor annoyances:
1. The battery monitors consume a noticeable amount of power. Like 1.4kWh per day. That adds up and was NOT something I expected at all. It wasn't in the system size calculations either. Is it a huge deal, no, its less than a panel, but it does bother me that it was a "surprise".
2. The Enphase app isn't quite working right. It shows my generated power as instantly consumed. The system works right, it just doesn't show right in the app. They thing something was installed backwards, but haven't come to fix it yet. That's annoying.
3. A relay failed, and right now my load shed is jumpered. It's been like a month waiting for a replacement part. So that failsafe is currently not functioning, although I did the math and as long as I don't run the dryer, the whole rest of the house can be on and it would be OK. So no dryer if the grid goes down. OK.
4. I am a little concerned about performance. So far I am getting about 70-80% of the power in the projections. Now, it's only been 4 months, so maybe it's just been cloudier than average. But I am definitely keeping an eye on it.

However, there are some big things I would have done differently, related to the batteries. Frankly, I wouldn't have added the batteries at all. They were about half the cost of the system, and I discovered better options for me after the fact.

First - our biggest power outage concern is our well - gotta have water. But I could have just as easily put a small rechargeable battery and a soft start on it for maybe $1,000. No power for anything else, but would have water. Unfortunately I didn't know this until an electrician told me that is what he was planning to do when he went solar.

Second discovery is using an EV as the house battery. Now instead of dropping $20k on batteries, you can drop $40k on an EV and use it as the house battery. And the capacity would be 5-10x more! I could run my house for a week off the Tesla Y, even in January. Still a cost to "plumb" it in, but getting the dual use of backup power (rarely needed) from something you use frequently and have to have anyway (car) seems like a no brainer.

Unfortunately, welcome to reality. You will have to grin and bear it.

 

[BCClone]

The Solar panel financing options should be investigated for fraud.

I had numerous tax clients put in these solar panels. They give me the letter that shows how much they paid to put it on the tax return for their credit. The solar company tells them you are going to get $XX back from your taxes and if you take that tax refund and use it to pay us (the financed loan) you'll save $YY dollars on your panels. The problem is the solar company doesn't tell them that the credit is nonrefundable, so when the credit amount is limited to their tax liability and their refund isn't what the solar company told them they are all pissed. I have to explain to them why it is limited and that the remaining credit will be carried forward to next years tax return.

Pain in my ass.

Another great little fib that the solar salespeople like to use, is they like to consider you to be in the 34% tax bracket so they can show quick payback on them. They also don't explain that the state credit takes a couple years to actually receive.

 

[CascadeClone]

Another great little fib that the solar salespeople like to use, is they like to consider you to be in the 34% tax bracket so they can show quick payback on them. They also don't explain that the state credit takes a couple years to actually receive.

It's actually not based on your tax rate, it's just a flat %. It used to be 26% (which was in my proposal) but during install they passed the new law making it 30%, and I got that as credit. That's for federal. Yeah if they are showing it as a deduction, that would be very misleading.

What state credit? I thought that ran out of money and was no longer a thing.

 

[CascadeClone]

Unfortunately, welcome to reality. You will have to grin and bear it.

Can I interest you in some gently used lithium iron phosphate batteries?

 

[BCClone]

It's actually not based on your tax rate, it's just a flat %. It used to be 26% (which was in my proposal) but during install they passed the new law making it 30%, and I got that as credit. That's for federal.

What state credit? I thought that ran out of money and was no longer a thing.

I know it’s flat, but the ones I dealt with liked to claim you get it all at once, so you needed to be up in that area for that to happen.

I got state but mine was 2021 build.

 

[isufbcurt]

It's actually not based on your tax rate, it's just a flat %. It used to be 26% (which was in my proposal) but during install they passed the new law making it 30%, and I got that as credit. That's for federal. Yeah if they are showing it as a deduction, that would be very misleading.

What state credit? I thought that ran out of money and was no longer a thing.

It is a flat 30% but it is limited to your tax liability. So unless you are in a higher tax bracket the credit might be limited with the remainder carried forward to future years - which is what happened with my clients.

Yes, Iowa ran out of money for the tax credit a couple years ago. But a client of mine who did the project then and received the Federal credit at that time was allowed to file for the Iowa credit this year because Iowa replenished the funding for people who were previously eligible.

 

[BryceC]

I think there's a lot of things that can be done besides Solar. Solar can be an option in very select circumstances, but not a widespread solution.

Nuclear seems to have the most promise. Even the outdated designs being utilized currently are far superior to solar and wind, and there is potential for a lot more efficiency with design updates.

I'm 100% pro nuclear. We should build 30 of them right now. However, I have no control or ability to build a nuclear power plant in this country and getting one off the ground is extremely difficult. The number of operating nuclear facilities in the US has gone from 104 in 2000 to 93 in 2020. It's a crying shame.

However I could buy some solar panels very quickly and completely within my control.

 

[1100011CS]

An update after about 5 months of solar. TL;DR version-- so far, so okay but big regret on the batteries.

System is 19 Panasonic panels, 360W each, with IQ7 microinverters, and (3) Encharge 3.3kWh batteries.

The good news is that everything is working and the batteries even kicked on once for about 5 minutes during an outage.

There are a couple minor annoyances:
1. The battery monitors consume a noticeable amount of power. Like 1.4kWh per day. That adds up and was NOT something I expected at all. It wasn't in the system size calculations either. Is it a huge deal, no, its less than a panel, but it does bother me that it was a "surprise".
2. The Enphase app isn't quite working right. It shows my generated power as instantly consumed. The system works right, it just doesn't show right in the app. They thing something was installed backwards, but haven't come to fix it yet. That's annoying.
3. A relay failed, and right now my load shed is jumpered. It's been like a month waiting for a replacement part. So that failsafe is currently not functioning, although I did the math and as long as I don't run the dryer, the whole rest of the house can be on and it would be OK. So no dryer if the grid goes down. OK.
4. I am a little concerned about performance. So far I am getting about 70-80% of the power in the projections. Now, it's only been 4 months, so maybe it's just been cloudier than average. But I am definitely keeping an eye on it.

However, there are some big things I would have done differently, related to the batteries. Frankly, I wouldn't have added the batteries at all. They were about half the cost of the system, and I discovered better options for me after the fact.

First - our biggest power outage concern is our well - gotta have water. But I could have just as easily put a small rechargeable battery and a soft start on it for maybe $1,000. No power for anything else, but would have water. Unfortunately I didn't know this until an electrician told me that is what he was planning to do when he went solar.

Second discovery is using an EV as the house battery. Now instead of dropping $20k on batteries, you can drop $40k on an EV and use it as the house battery. And the capacity would be 5-10x more! I could run my house for a week off the Tesla Y, even in January. Still a cost to "plumb" it in, but getting the dual use of backup power (rarely needed) from something you use frequently and have to have anyway (car) seems like a no brainer.

Does your electric company have net metering? If so, is that why you decided on batteries? My electric company (actually a co-op) does not have net metering so I was thinking the only way going solar would make sense is to get batteries... or an EV. Would be a good excuse to get a new truck

Also, did you look into personal windmills at all?

 

[CascadeClone]

Does your electric company have net metering? If so, is that why you decided on batteries? My electric company (actually a co-op) does not have net metering so I was thinking the only way going solar would make sense is to get batteries... or an EV. Would be a good excuse to get a new truck

Also, did you look into personal windmills at all?

No, the batteries were purely for practical backup purposes. Alliant (all of Iowa?) just gives you credit for your generation vs your usage. But only up to your usage annually. It's like curt's nonrefundable tax credit. But you can't micromanage time of day pricing, etc to min-max your return. Unfortunately.

I looked at windmills a few years ago, building a tower in town would be problematic, and anything lower and smaller would be a mess. It would help the solar a lot though, since it can be windy at night, and often is windy when cloudy.

 

[1100011CS]

No, the batteries were purely for practical backup purposes. Alliant (all of Iowa?) just gives you credit for your generation vs your usage. But only up to your usage annually. It's like curt's nonrefundable tax credit. But you can't micromanage time of day pricing, etc to min-max your return. Unfortunately.

I looked at windmills a few years ago, building a tower in town would be problematic, and anything lower and smaller would be a mess. It would help the solar a lot though, since it can be windy at night, and often is windy when cloudy.

You live in town and have a well?

 

[CascadeClone]

You live in town and have a well?

Yep, west side of CR. City sewer but well water. It's a weird property, but kinda great. 2+ acres, and we have deer, fox, owls, turkeys, all kinds of songbirds. They come right up to the house, even the foxes sometimes (mulberry tree). House itself is nothing fancy, 1950s walkout.

CR has a lot of oddball areas like that, here and there throughout town.

 

[wintersmd]

The Solar panel financing options should be investigated for fraud.

I had numerous tax clients put in these solar panels. They give me the letter that shows how much they paid to put it on the tax return for their credit. The solar company tells them you are going to get $XX back from your taxes and if you take that tax refund and use it to pay us (the financed loan) you'll save $YY dollars on your panels. The problem is the solar company doesn't tell them that the credit is nonrefundable, so when the credit amount is limited to their tax liability and their refund isn't what the solar company told them they are all pissed. I have to explain to them why it is limited and that the remaining credit will be carried forward to next years tax return.

Pain in my ass.

Curt,
Have a question for ya on Solar energy tax credit. I turn 59 this year and have money in a 401 K. Currently I live comfortable off my pension, so I really don't need to tap into that money. I was looking at using 10-20K from my 401K to cover the cost of Solar panels on my house. Would the Solar tax credit cover the amount of tax I would have to pay for taking out of my 401K? My goal is to get rid of or dramatically reduce the electric bill while using the tax credit to cover the cost of 401K tax. I don't want to give "the man" anymore that I have to.

 

[isufbcurt]

Curt,
Have a question for ya on Solar energy tax credit. I turn 59 this year and have money in a 401 K. Currently I live comfortable off my pension, so I really don't need to tap into that money. I was looking at using 10-20K from my 401K to cover the cost of Solar panels on my house. Would the Solar tax credit cover the amount of tax I would have to pay for taking out of my 401K? My goal is to get rid of or dramatically reduce the electric bill while using the tax credit to cover the cost of 401K tax. I don't want to give "the man" anymore that I have to.

Feel free to DM me but I'll need a little more information:

1. Expected cost of solar project
2. Annual pension received

 

[BCClone]

Curt,
Have a question for ya on Solar energy tax credit. I turn 59 this year and have money in a 401 K. Currently I live comfortable off my pension, so I really don't need to tap into that money. I was looking at using 10-20K from my 401K to cover the cost of Solar panels on my house. Would the Solar tax credit cover the amount of tax I would have to pay for taking out of my 401K? My goal is to get rid of or dramatically reduce the electric bill while using the tax credit to cover the cost of 401K tax. I don't want to give "the man" anymore that I have to.

To withdraw without penalty, you need to turn 59 and 1/2 that year.

 

[wintersmd]

To withdraw without penalty, you need to turn 59 and 1/2 that year.

yep, I turn 59 in September. looking at a next summer project.

 

[wintersmd]

Feel free to DM me but I'll need a little more information:

1. Expected cost of solar project
2. Annual pension received

DM message sent. Thanks Curt!!!!

 

[amishclone]

I'm 100% pro nuclear. We should build 30 of them right now. However, I have no control or ability to build a nuclear power plant in this country and getting one off the ground is extremely difficult. The number of operating nuclear facilities in the US has gone from 104 in 2000 to 93 in 2020. It's a crying shame.

However I could buy some solar panels very quickly and completely within my control.

By all means, let's put in more inefficient vanity solar builds and get more of that copper out of circulation.

https://www.mining.com/web/copper-industry-warns-of-looming-supply-gap-without-more-mines/

 

[isufbcurt]

By all means, let's put in more inefficient vanity solar builds and get more of that copper out of circulation.

https://www.mining.com/web/copper-industry-warns-of-looming-supply-gap-without-more-mines/

An Amish guy being against technology, who would have guessed.

 

[amishclone]

An Amish guy being against technology, who would have guessed.

Define "against"

 

[CtownCyclone]

An Amish guy being against technology, who would have guessed.

Maybe he's really good at bowling, so he's ok with some technology.